[00:00]Brian Jackson: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Today I'm joined by Henry Richardson, Professional MBA Class of 2009, founder and CEO of DEFINE, Define Living, and Feronia. From his days as a national champion diver to building a portfolio of wellness businesses, Henry has dedicated his career to helping people live healthier, more intentional lives.

In this conversation, we'll discuss his entrepreneurial journey, the philosophy that environment shapes behavior, what he's learned about leadership and positive psychology, and how a defining moment at Rice Business shaped the philosophy that's guided his career ever since.

Hey, good morning, Henry. Thank you so much for joining me on Owl Have You Know.

[00:52]Henry Richardson: Hey, Brian. It's great to be here.

[00:54]Brian Jackson: Where are you calling from?

[00:55]Henry Richardson: Well, right now I'm located in Mexico, just a small little town called Tepoztlán. It's about an hour and a half south of Mexico City.

[01:04]Brian Jackson: Tepoztlán?

[01:05]Henry Richardson: That's right. Good job.

[01:06]Brian Jackson: Okay. I'm trying.

[01:07]Henry Richardson: Actually, the way I was introduced to Tepotzotlán in general, I was leading a retreat to Mexico City, and it was with a group that organizes a variety of different types of events. And they had called me because their instructor had actually dropped out. I used to own and run a business called DEFINE Body & Mind, which was fitness, health, and wellness, and so health and wellness retreats were part of our annual activities.

So, they asked me if I could jump in to fill in for this instructor, and I saw Mexico City. This was in 2017. I'm from Houston, Texas, born and raised, but had never, ever been to Mexico City and had always wanted to go. And so, I signed up, like, instantly. I was like, "Yes, count me in." And I didn't even pay attention, but there was this extra little stop right afterwards at this place called Tepotzotlán. And I was looking it up, and I was like, "Oh, that looks interesting," but, you know, I didn't give it too much attention. But when I actually got there, I was blown away. It was almost like I had felt like I'd discovered, like, this uncharted territory, which is very selfish to think of because it's, you know, been in existence for thousands of years and actually has a lot of history to it. But over about five years of leading retreats here, I actually have a place down here now. I love it so much.

[02:17]Brian Jackson: Well, it's incredible, and there's no shortage of interest in your story. I was looking, kind of, at your background starting at the beginning. You know, being a national champion diver to then going to teaching sixth graders in the South Bronx, not a path that I think a lot of people expect, probably even surprised yourself. So, how did you first get into diving, and then how did that lead you ultimately to Teach For America?

[02:40]Henry Richardson: Yeah, it's fun to think about those various, I guess, decision points that created that path. You know, because I, like most kids, was very active, loved all sorts of different sports and activities. But I somehow just gravitated towards all water sports. I was a swimmer growing up, and, you know, I remember I did well with it. I was actually a gymnast and a swimmer and all these different activities, but swimming really stuck.

One day I remember just, kind of, swimming, and I actually saw at the other end of the pool these divers diving. And it just looked like it was a lot of fun, perhaps more fun than just looking at the lane line going back and forth and back and forth. And since I had some gymnastics background, I actually spoke to the diving coach, and he said, "Yeah, get on the board. Show me what you got." And I could do a couple little things, you know. But he was like, "Yeah, come by. I'd love to have you on the team."

So, fast-forward, I did that competitively from the time I was about 11 or 12 until I was 22, right out of college. It was an amazing experience for me. You know, individual sports create something that is very powerful because it's intrinsic motivation, right? And you have to learn how to manage and deal with stress. You have to manage and deal with competition. But I actually had a lower back injury in my senior year of college. And although it was, in my opinion, somewhat a huge detriment and travesty at the time, it turned out to be one of the biggest blessings because it forced me in my senior year of college to be like, "Okay, I'm not going to be a diver for the rest of my life." And I knew that, but it forced me to take a full different vantage.

I have to admit, I wasn't super confident with what I was going to do next because I had been studying finance. But Teach For America, there was something about education that, kind of, called me and grabbed my attention, and I followed that and decided to apply, and I was luckily accepted, so moved to New York and taught sixth graders in the South Bronx.

[04:32]Brian Jackson: I mean, the juxtaposition between diving, the solo sport where success is measured, I think, in fractions and seconds, and then all of a sudden to something that's performance-based on the performance of other people. I feel like between the two, it must have just taught you so much in this period of life.

[04:50]Henry Richardson: You know, it's so interesting because that, I would say, was the time in my life where I grew up the most, was when I became a schoolteacher. I was a 22-year-old standing in front of a group of 35 11-to-14-year-old kids. It was a big age group. And I remember thinking to myself, "I'm the adult in this room." And it forced me to really take this jump and leap forward into becoming an adult and actually reminding myself, being thankful to my parents, for teaching me how to manage and operate not only a classroom, but thinking through about how I could actually be a potential role model for some of my students.

[05:32]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, I mean, you had, kind of, hinted to your lower back injury, and I think that's what brought you into yoga?

[05:39]Henry Richardson: That's right.

[05:40]Brian Jackson: I'm just curious, like, was there an aha moment, the first one where you went, "Okay, yes, this is a part of my story. You know, there's something here"?

[05:49]Henry Richardson: Yeah, this is a fun story because I remember this is back in the late '90s, early 2000s, that I took a yoga class because I was having some back pain, and the only thing I knew about yoga at the time was Madonna. If you remember, she got really into yoga during the late '90s, and she was talking about it, and she had these amazing arms. So, I was like, "All right, can't be that bad, right?" But I went to my first yoga class, and I absolutely hated it. I'm not kidding.

In the class, I was sweating, I thought, more than anyone. I was shaking more than anyone, and I was an athlete. I was literally a college Division I athlete, and the only thing I could do better than anyone else in the room was a handstand. This, kind of, is an echoing theme in my life. I was very competitive, and I just remember being like, "This is not for me. This is not for me." However, I remember I woke up the next morning. I had slept so well, and I woke up feeling really, really good.

And so, guess what? I went back the next day, and honestly, it was probably my third class, but something clicked in the third class, and it felt very freeing to get away from that uber-competitiveness and to think through that, "Actually, this is something that could be for me, that's really good for me, and I, kind of, want to feel that." So, I was doing it daily and moved to New York City, as I said. I was teaching, and it became something I did after school. It became something I did on the weekends, and then I really dove into it on the summer breaks that I had as a schoolteacher, and I, kind of, haven't stopped since.

[07:22]Brian Jackson: And then you got connected to Exhale Spa Studios.

[07:26]Henry Richardson: That's right.

[07:27]Brian Jackson: Tell me a bit about that role, and I know you went to basically grow it across five different cities.

[07:32]Henry Richardson: That's right. So, it was really funny and, kind of, serendipitous as well because my roommate happened to work at this place called Exhale, and they were a spa. They were located in New York City. They had one location on the Upper East Side, and they were opening up a new location under Central Park South. And then they happened to also be going through this, kind of, rather large expansion at the time. They were opening up in the Hamptons, in Boston, and they had talked about a Chicago location and a Los Angeles and even a San Francisco.

And so, I happened to be there, and when I first started taking classes consistently, the owner was like, "Why don't you become an instructor? We're looking for more guy instructors, and you have a clue of what you're doing, so go through the teacher training and see." And it was perfect timing because I had my summer break. I really dove into it. And I'd been teaching for the two years with Teach For America, and it was one of the hardest decisions I'd ever made because I was just finding my groove as a schoolteacher.

But those skills carried with me into this next step. And when they asked me if I'd be interested in helping them open in Boston and Chicago, I said, "Yeah, this is the adventure I've been looking for." So, the people at Exhale were so wonderful. It was such a fun time for me during my, like, early, mid-20s. Then they ended up signing on to Los Angeles. I moved to LA, and then I moved to San Francisco to help them, but the deal, the contract that they had was actually with Bloomingdale's, and it fell through. And I was living there, and I was like, "This is such a great city. I, kind of, don't want to leave yet." But I worked with this other group called The Dailey Method, and those were also some of just the kindest, nicest people.

But I was feeling this urge to grow up and make my, kind of, path, not to just simply teach fitness but to do something more, but I wasn't 100% sure what that was. But that's where Rice fit into the entire equation.

[09:23]Brian Jackson: Well, and that's exactly where I'm trying to lead us. So, I guess this is that moment where you decided an MBA or Rice was the right fit.

[09:31]Henry Richardson: That's right. I studied finance undergrad, and I had always thought about business school. And the jaunt of becoming a fitness instructor was really never a part of the plan, but I couldn't deny the fact that there was something with it, the community, the connection. But I knew it wasn't necessarily my long-term path of teaching fitness.

So, I decided to start looking at business schools, started studying for the GMAT and doing all the things you've got to do, and I did pretty decently, and I was like, "Okay, let's see." And Rice just was the perfect fit for me. Being from Houston, it was always the prestige of Rice University that attracted me. It was the program, it was the entrepreneur path at Rice. It was looking deeper into some of the different professors, and Al Napier being one of them, and just there were a lot of fun coinciding events that I said, "This is great." And I also thought maybe I could even live at home and save some money. And so, I applied to Rice, I got accepted, and I lived at home for approximately three weeks and decided, "No, that's not going to work." But it was a great time of life. It really was.

[10:39]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, during your time at Rice, you know, one of your professors, and I believe I was asked the same thing, was "define your role in the world," right? You know, what did that mean to you, and what did you think in that moment in trying to answer that question at this age? I mean, it feels like it's still young, right?

[10:58]Henry Richardson: So, my first year of, you know, the two years of business school, I'd say the first year wasn't the smoothest for me because it seemed like a lot of my classmates, you know, they knew which path they were taking from an oil and gas perspective or engineers or... There was a lot of clarity, and I was perhaps intimidated by that, right? Because I still was trying to figure out what was this next step. I knew real estate was something I enjoyed, and it's something that my family is involved in, and I had exposure to it, therefore seemed like a likely next step. But if you recall, so, I was in business school 2007 through 2009, and that was literally the time of the Great Recession.

And so, my first semester of my second year was when everything just essentially was bleak. I remember one of my professors, he said, "Look, last year 75% of students at this point had job offers, and this year only 25%. So, it's a complete flip, right? And so, things aren't as hopeful as they perhaps were over a year ago." And he said the phrase you just mentioned. He said, "Listen, don't take a job just because it's available. Take something that's going to define your role in this world." And I just, like, stopped in my foot track, like, this may not be exactly what I do, but if I do, if I open up a studio, a fitness studio, I'm calling it DEFINE. That's exactly the thing I needed.

And I actually have to admit, I cut my next class, which I am not one prone to do. I feel like I'm a good student, right? But I cut my next class, and I filed my DBA for DEFINE in Harris County. That, kind of, just gave me this momentum, and I decided to work with Al Napier. I did my sweat equity case study for this particular business, which was DEFINE. And I ended up doing an independent study in my second semester of my second year, so my last semester, with him as well. And it really, kind of, solidified my goals and my direction.

[13:03]Brian Jackson: And that gave you... I mean, having him help you gave you the foundation to go, right? And like, without that, it feels so daunting to approach, "How do I start something?"

[13:13]Henry Richardson: Yeah, I carry this theme, it seems like, in most of the areas of my life. I'm creative, and I'm adventurous for sure. I mean, I used to dive from a 10-meter platform. But I'm not just, like, blindly foolish in anything I do. I'm pretty calculated in terms of the approach that I take to most things. Like in diving, you start on the one meter, and then you go to the three, and then you go to the five, and then you go to the seven, and then you go to the 10.

And so, there's these steps that take you along this path, and the exact same thing happened with me at business school. And it was so powerful because Rice was the quote-unquote "platform" for me to dive and jump into my business, and it gave me the path and the training to feel confident. And I tell people that my first month of business, I literally hit the different benchmarks that we had set in that independent study for goals based on just the fact that I was able to sit with it for months and really think through the process. And I sadly did not hit the second month and the third month and all those things, but the first month, just because I was so focused on that first month to make sure we were hitting certain levels, we literally were, like, exact on our costs and exact on our revenue goals. So, it was fun.

[14:29]Brian Jackson: So, then building DEFINE, I feel like the thought of "environment shapes behavior" really comes into play, and it's a common thread in your story and in everything that I think that you've ultimately built. When did you first realize the concept and then also decide that, "Oh, this has such a profound impact on who we become"?

[14:49]Henry Richardson: That's insightful. That is something that has always been a part of the DEFINE message. So, the full story of DEFINE was in 2009 we opened our first location, and then in 2010 we actually opened up a second location in Houston. And around that same time, 2012, we were opening up our third, plus also we had some interest in people franchising or expanding. We first opened in The Woodlands and Sugar Land, but then we opened up in Ohio.

So, we really solidified our franchising program at that point, and so I tried to invest a lot into our teacher training and our programming and everything. But what stood out was, you know, the franchises that created these environments that were a part of the best hour of your day, they literally welcomed you, not only just like cheerleading. That's not what, like, I'm advocating for, but there was this authentic sense of well-being being around this person. Like, they knew something. They wanted to share, they wanted to love on you, they wanted to take care of you, they wanted to push you, they wanted to challenge you. That environment is what made our franchises successful, and not all of them could create that.

And so, that was when I was like, "Okay, how can we train our franchises to create these powerful environments?" Well, fast-forward, 2020 comes around, right? And so, the pandemic changes the entire environment and makes everything very difficult. But I just so happened to sell all of my Houston area locations to franchisees. Things evolved, and things shifted and changed, and that's when I started to get involved in real estate with health and well-being, and that's the phase and chapter I've been in for the past three years now.

[16:34]Brian Jackson: Yeah, so that phase, what does it look like to talk about environment beyond just an apartment lease? Like, what's the expansion there?

[16:44]Henry Richardson: That's a great question because when you think about it, if I were to tell you, "Oh, we're building well-being multifamily apartment communities," it's like, okay, that sounds interesting. There are amenities that you're adding to make well-being a service for the residents. That's probably what most people take away, and that's true. But it's so much more than well-being amenities because we do offer infrared saunas, we have cold plunges, we have our boutique fitness classes, we offer cooking and meditation. So, those could be replicated by other groups. But what is much more difficult to be replicated is a community and an atmosphere that creates its core central message around well-being.

And so, from our leasing, from our touring, from our introduction to residents to all the different programming that we offer, we incorporate this entire directional position called a Community Wellbeing Director, and they're very hands-on with each of the residents, and it literally creates this beautiful sense of connection. And then their job is training to help that individual to build community. And so, we go through an actual 30-minute consultation with each and every one of our residents when they're moving in. We ask about goals. We ask about, you know, health and wellness and fitness. We ask about where are the areas they want to grow? What are some of the things that are preventing them from growing?

And so, we have one of our Community Wellbeing Directors at Define Living, which is in Houston. She's worked for me for over 13 years, and so she really gets the message and the mission, and it's been really fun.

[18:26]Brian Jackson: It's got to be fulfilling. Like, you're doing more than just the place to live. You're actually building that community and life, and you're impacting people in a more profound way. Does that drive you, too, to have that type of impact?

[18:43]Henry Richardson: Yeah. The thing that drove me to even start DEFINE is community. And, you know, I've asked myself this question a lot, like, "Why are you so wanting to drive community?" And it's because, you know, I have found in some of the most challenging moments of my life that those have been the most profound and uplifting things in my life, is the people around me. And I am very close with my family, so that is a huge part of my community.

But I would say that my diving community, when I was in diving, they got me through some of those challenging moments. Like my back injury, personal things that were going on, making those transitions are big for 20-something-year-olds. But it was my diving friends and the closeness that we had. And I remember the same exact thing with my Exhale groups. We went through our instructor trainings together. We really bonded over something that was really powerful.

And so, you just can't replicate that inauthentically, right? You have to have those things in life. And it seems like we're moving away from those senses of connection and community. And I'm not advocating for only Define Living, but I think we're doing a good job of building community. I think there's a lot of ways to build community, but it just so happens that it makes it really easy when you have a place that you actually live and you can go and take a class at no extra charge, and you also happen to see people that you connect with and have fun with, and then you happen to see them in an elevator and you can have a conversation with versus that awkwardness that is often the case in most apartment communities. So, yeah, community is what creates that drive.

[20:24]Brian Jackson: No, it does. I think, like, you're right. This world is changing. I think of remote work. Like, you don't have that sense of community at work that you used to have because you're not huddled around a table together. You're in your house, like I am right now. I lived in an apartment in Boston, same thing. The only community we could really find were the other folks who owned dogs.

[20:45]Henry Richardson: Yes. Right.

[20:45]Brian Jackson: And then we all get to know each other because we're in the same space, and I know they like dogs, and they know I like dogs.

[20:52]Henry Richardson: It's so true. Yeah, and it is, it's those shared interests that create some of the stronger communities no matter what setting it's in. And I know that there's a lot of people that are doing a great job of incorporating technology and incorporating different programming to build that sense of community.

And so, now it's centered around something that hopefully, you know, when you think about health and well-being, and I'm very intentional not to use the term "wellness" as much as "well-being," and the reason is because I feel like wellness has turned into something that you have to chase. Like, you have to buy wellness. Like, you have to take a supplement to achieve wellness, or you have to inject wellness into you. You know? There's all these ways that “wellness” is being utilized.

And so, to me, it's really about well-being isn't something you chase, it's something that you develop. You grow it. It's already intrinsic. You just have to put a little effort towards it to make sure that it's there. And the same thing is true with creating community. We all have that ability to create connection. We just have to give ourselves the opportunities to be able to actually do it instead of sometimes the easier route, which is just to go home, watch Netflix, or get on social media, you know? And it's a masquerade because that sense of connection is slightly tapped into on social media, but it doesn't create that soul-fulfilling element of it.

[22:09]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, as a leader, you've had to have evolved because what you're trying to do now is a totally different definition of building than I feel like when you were in diving or as a teacher in Teach For America. What does that look like today as being a leader?

[22:26]Henry Richardson: Yeah. I hinted at it earlier that I'm a lifelong student, and I feel like the most important thing for me is to be able to, first, be able to speak the vernacular in whatever industry I'm working in, right? And so, since I've really moved over towards real estate and the development side, as well as also property management, I've done some certifications, right? I've made sure that I'm there and able to communicate and speak and think in terms of that entire industry.

But overall, aside from just being a student, I think being a leader, there's two things that come to mind for me. The first is the most important, which is, like, not to try to pretend like I know something that I don't, right? For me, when I first stepped into some of these things, I had to really rely on the people that were already great property managers, the people that were already really involved in understanding the budgets and the financial aspects of how our properties run. And I didn't want to step in and be like, "This is going to do so well if we do this," you know?

I wanted to sit with them and learn and be a part of understanding the conversations and the concerns, because the concept of a strength and a weakness is also very relevant for me. Because a strength represents our ability to rely almost instinctually on what we feel and know is going to happen. Whereas a weakness, there's a lot of blind spots within that. And so, I wanted to be exposed to as many of the potential weaknesses because we're not talking about, like, a 1,500, 2,000 square foot studio anymore, right? We're talking about, like, a 260-unit apartment community, and we're about to start developing our 388-unit apartment community.

And so, I have to make sure that there's no hubris involved in this process, and it really is a focus of intentional, directed work. But the second thing about being a leader, it also echoes this concept of how can you inspire and help people to see things somewhat differently based on just a little shifting of our head, saying we could be almost an industry disruptor in this entire way without having to shift at all except for just looking at it slightly differently. And we already have the homes. We already have the beautiful floor plans. We already have the beautiful facilities. But let's bring a new culture, a new environment, so that we can actually really not just say that we're a well-being community marketing-wise, but actually make our residents improve their well-being.

[24:53]Brian Jackson: I feel like making this pitch to someone has got to be challenging, right? Because a lot of it... I mean, these are big words that have a lot of meaning to it, and they don't know if it's a gimmick or, you know, like, how do you broach that and actually get to the point of like, "Here's the proof of concept. This is worthwhile"?

[25:14]Henry Richardson: 100%. And that from day one was always my biggest concern. I don't want this to be gimmicky. I want this to be focused on how can we literally take a resident, measure their well-being from when they first move in, and then see how it develops and grows. And so, the other part of this equation is I actually went back to school right before the pandemic to study and focus on well-being. So, University of Pennsylvania has this positive psychology master's program, and I got really involved and invested into it.

In fact, I teach at that program as an assistant instructor right now, and I have been for the past five years, because it's not something, again, that's a gimmick to me. It's how can we truly create an environment through research, measure our impact, and see it create a positive change in whatever environment we're in. And the funny thing about positive psychology is it was super embraced by education, so private schools, public schools, as well as also in the military. Positive psychology focuses and studies on resiliency, on grit, because that's the most important aspect of having that sense of positive. And when I say "positive," it's not positive thinking. It's not being happy all the time. It's literally thinking about what in this situation can help me to thrive to get to where I want to go. So, there's a lot of goal setting. There's a lot of motivation, and then focused on that.

And so, I feel like for me, when I think about how to ensure this is no gimmick, I rely a lot on those research components, but more importantly, we incorporate an assessment tool with our residents so that we can look and see how we're performing. We have actively put in an app that our residents can literally just pull up and say, "You know what? I want to do meditation," or "I want to do one of the cooking classes," or "I want to take an online fitness class." And having all those many, many, many years, over a decade, of having content that we've recorded, we have a lot of different opportunities for our residents to tap into. So, it is much more than just a gimmick. It's something really fun for us to be able to apply and see it be effective.

[27:26]Brian Jackson: So, you're expanding Define Living. You've also developed the new facility called Feronia, which is where you are now. Tell me about Feronia. If I were to show up on a Friday and I'm exhausted from my, you know, day job here, what would you hope I feel when I leave on Sunday?

[27:45]Henry Richardson: Absolutely. I don't have to do anything because this space does it on its own. Honestly, there's something magical about Tepotzotlán. Like I said, I visited, and it captured my attention, and it's literally just because, A, the nature. The mountains and the rocks here, it's like Avatar in the sense that there are these, like, floating cliffs and the clouds and everything. It's quite spectacular. The other thing that's so great is in the summertime, the highs are in the 70s, and it gets into the low 60s, and it kind of is consistent to that year-round. But it's extra special in the summer just because, as we all know, in Houston, Rice area, it's pretty hot.

But you're going to come to Tepotzotlán, this is like authentic small-town Mexico that feels very untouched. In fact, there's no Starbucks. There's no chain hotels or chain restaurants of any sort here. It's all locally owned by ordinance. And behind each and every gate that opens up, you can't help but look and just see these incredibly lush, beautiful gardens and homes. And so, one day we were looking, and it was a house that was for sale. And then the realtor, she told us that there was a house right next door that happened to also just be for sale. And sure enough, we walked in, and we started to look around. We're like, "Yep, this is it. This is the one." Because you could see that it needed a little extra love, but it was also a space.

And so, I had just recently sold my studio businesses in Houston, and I knew I wanted to incorporate still something to do with health and well-being, but because this was prior to Define Living. And I thought, "You know what? This could be a really powerful retreat space." And it'd be an intimate, powerful retreat space, and that's been the vision. And we've slowly evolved it into becoming that. And I'm excited because if you were to come on a Friday, by the time you leave on Sunday, you will have had some of the most delicious meals of your life. You will have had some of the most incredible views and experiences from a hike that we took to visit a pyramid that's here locally. On an ideal day, you might see a UFO or something.

No, I'm just, kind of, kidding. But you would get all sorts of just open-hearted relaxation built into this entire process because it really truly is a special, magical, in fact, they call it an energetic place. The history of it has a lot from the Aztec culture. One of the main gods, Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent, is said to have been born here, and so it has a rich history. Just learning more about the indigenous culture really has been fun and powerful. And historically, it is a place for health and healing, and so they do all sorts of different yoga retreats here. They do all sorts of different massage therapies and other therapies that are geared towards well-being, and so of course it captures my interest.

[30:46]Brian Jackson: And then translating your vision of DEFINE, you know, across the border, cross-culturally, what was that experience like?

[30:54]Henry Richardson: Yeah, so creating retreats, it's fun. It's just a lot of fun because without fail, every retreat has one or two people, sometimes more, that they're just high-strung, right? Whether it's traveling to a foreign country, whether it's low blood sugar, whether it's just general being slightly uncomfortable, therefore the stress comes out. And it is so powerful to watch people instantaneously get out of that van and just take a big sigh and exhale.

And so, for me, DEFINE has been a process of, okay, how can we help people tap into something that's going to serve them to be their best in their daily lives, to be better parents, to be better at their jobs, to see more meaning in their lives? You know, we all feel that when we are finished with an exercise class or a good workout, like we can conquer the world. But then how can we, kind of, sustain that and create that feeling throughout our day, throughout our lives? And doing a retreat is an extension of that from a bit more of an extended amount of time.

[31:56]Brian Jackson: I think of this as like the intersection of business, positive psychology, and a bit of spirituality. You know, how do you find those three ideas end up complementing each other?

[32:07]Henry Richardson: Yeah. In fact, that's what I focused on in positive psychology. I talked about how business is actually a very spiritual process. It is discipline, it's devotion, it is connecting to something that's bigger than yourself so that you can be better than just the individual self that you are. And I think business is very much like that. I feel like if you are working in an industry that you're passionate about, that you want to contribute to, it can be something that can be utilized for the good of humanity. You know, doing well by doing good, that whole mindset. And it sounds, kind of, like conscious capitalism, right? Because there are a lot of overlaps to it.

But the notion that spirituality can be a really grounding, practical force for us, not just as an individual, but you know, even like as a team, if we were all to go take a yoga class and, kind of, really get into that synchronistic mindset, we can then go and do bigger, better stuff together as well. And the same thing could be true for an exercise class or a cooking class or a meditation class, all the above.

So, yeah, think of it as the body, the mind, the spirit of business. The body being the people that work at the business. The mind being the entire mindset and making sure that we aren't overworking to the point of burnout and stress, but also learning how to manage those times when we do have to work really hard and put in those long hours. And then the spirit of business. So, "spirit," the word itself actually means to breathe, to be in spirito, to be in breath. To be filled with life is essentially what the word "spirit" means from a Latin sense. And so, if we can fill our entire organization up with just breath and life, we can be better at our business, that's the goal.

[33:51]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, you're applying all these things into business. You're learning them on your own, applying it to your own life. Is there something that you've brought in that's had the biggest impact?

[34:01]Henry Richardson: You know, the pandemic challenged me hugely, hugely because I had to pivot rapidly. Luckily, we were in a point where we were already starting to offer online fitness classes. We were just getting freshly into this. And that phase was really focused on how can I make sure that each and every one of our studios was going to thrive and do well and try to survive this entire experience. And it was really, really tough because I took a lot of it personally when a studio was having to close, or, you know, we had a couple studios that were up for their lease renewals, et cetera, and you're not going to want to renew your lease in the middle of a pandemic, which was unfortunate but understood.

So, for me, that timeframe, that shift was the challenge for me to say, "You are prepared physically. You are now prepared mentally, emotionally because of your studying of positive psychology, the study of grit, the study of resilience that this is your test," right? This is your test to take it to the next step.

And I will say, you know, it's fun to think about how things evolve and bloom and change because I wouldn't have expected to develop Define Living, but it is because of the pandemic. And you said it earlier, working from home created a sense of disconnection. The COVID pandemic created a sense of disconnection. And I saw even with my own son, like, just like a bit of a hyper-paranoia of, like, being around other people. And we were already doing the business of like starting to build an apartment community, and that's when I said, "Let's do this. Let's incorporate a Define Living mindset that really is focused on health and well-being services."

[35:43]Brian Jackson: Well, the timing of it all, it was needed. So, if someone were listening today and they feel stuck or disconnected, which I think in this new world that we live in is so probable, what's the first change that they could make that would help to create an environment where they're more likely to thrive?

[36:01]Henry Richardson: You know, there's this researcher, her name is Barbara Fredrickson from the University of North Carolina, and she talks about the broaden-and-build theory. And it's so simple, but it is so, so powerful. And the concept is, one little thing of positive broadens, and that little broadening of your perspective, of your emotional well-being, of your thinking process, that little opening can help you to start to build a new pathway. You just have to make sure you consistently create those new paths, right?

And so, how do you do that? Well, that's where life becomes really fun. What's one thing that you can look forward to? What's a song you can push play on right now that makes you feel a little bit better, that you can do while you're doing something else? That then just creates a new regimen. So, the concept of positive psychology is really centered around awareness, which is to say, when you find yourself constricted or "below the line" is a term that I like to use. When you're below the line in fear and stress and anxiety or whatever it might be, what's that one little thing that you know you can go to, even if it feels a little superficial, that helps you to just get back to either the line or will help you to open up your viewpoint just a little bit?

And I'm not going to lie, sometimes it's like a bite of ice cream. I'm not saying it's like a whole big bowl of ice cream, but sometimes it's a little sweet, fun, hedonic, pleasurable type thing that can help us to find it. But I would say the real powerful impact with the things that really create long-lasting well-being, and I know for me, music is a huge thing that I can use. All right, put on a song to make me get into a slightly different vantage, and before you know it, you're, kind of, moving in a little bit of a different energetic path. And so, how can you think through that and then give yourself perhaps more longer-term goals to look forward to that create positive change?

[37:55]Brian Jackson: That's great advice. So, our listeners, after this episode, maybe click on the one song that gets you started.

[38:03]Henry Richardson: It's true. And it sounds so simple, but it's the simplistic things that make it so powerful, too.

[38:09]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, back to the question "define your role in the world," nearly what, 10, 15 years later, how would you define it today?

[38:19]Henry Richardson: I pause on that because I don't want to just sound like a broken record referencing community. But I'm going to incorporate a little bit of a few things that we've talked about because I have to think through this from an almost a spiritual perspective in the sense that I think all of us are given some innate strengths, and then over time we develop a variety of strengths. I know my strength is I appreciate excellence, I appreciate beautiful things, that's one of my strengths. I know I have a strength of creativity and caring, but at the core of it all is the strength of just love. And that sense of love for me is, like, the most important thing because we live in a day and a time where there's a lot of agitation and quick to bite.

But I do think that if we can find something that is at the core of who we are, want to be, and our strengths, we're just better versions of ourselves. And so, my role is to use my business as a vessel to create positive change from a loving place. And I have to make sure that we are very focused and strict about the way that we incorporate it because I don't want it to be perceived as willy-nilly. I don't know any other way to describe it right now. But I want it to be focused on something that is serious, but at the same time that the residents that are there, they feel that sense of uplift and joy. So, that is my role. My role is to continue to build communities and to ensure that we are making positive impacts in a very measurable, practical way.

[39:53]Brian Jackson: So, I have one selfish question. I'm recently engaged to my partner.

[39:57]Henry Richardson: Congratulations!

[39:59]Brian Jackson: Thank you. We've been looking at different places for a wedding. I know you were married at Feronia.

[40:04]Henry Richardson: That's right.

[40:05]Brian Jackson: I'm sitting here thinking, like, how special to get married at a place that you built together and that you're utilizing to impact people in a positive way. I would love to hear a bit about that story.

[40:18]Henry Richardson: I'd love to tell you it because it really, truly was. We'd discussed getting married off and on a little bit, but never really fully had this huge push to do so. But once Feronia came into our lives, it became very clear that this was not only a special place, but we wanted to share, but truly it was something that was going to be a part of our story with our son for the rest of our lives. And so, we couldn't think of a better way to just create a really powerful moment.

And so, our son, who is now 15, so we got married three years ago, so he was a little bit younger at the time, obviously, he was very integrated into the entire process, into the wedding. It was really fun. He stood up there, and my partner is Persian, and so he speaks Farsi, and so our son speaks Farsi and reads it and writes it, and he speaks Spanish because we had lived in Mexico for a while and he'd studied it in school. And so, he was able to be integrated into the whole process and say a few words, and it was the best version of us is all I can say.

[41:23]Brian Jackson: Wow. Well, Henry, it has been a sincere pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much for joining me on Owl Have You Know.

[41:30]Henry Richardson: Thank you, Brian. Honestly, being a part of the Rice community is such a huge gift in my life, so thank you for including me.

[41:41]Brian Jackson: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Brian Jackson, and Maya Pomroy.

[00:00]Brian Jackson: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Today I'm joined by Alecia Harris, Professional MBA Class of 2023, and now the Chief Development Officer at the Rothko Chapel. Alecia has built a career proving that the worlds of art and business are far more connected than many people realize. After beginning her professional journey in the arts, she earned her MBA from Rice Business, then joined J.P. Morgan's Private Bank, and now leads development for one of Houston's most iconic cultural institutions.

In this conversation, we'll discuss her unconventional path from art history to wealth management and then back to the arts, what she's learned about leadership and legacy, the unique role Rothko Chapel plays in Houston's cultural landscape, and how an MBA helped her bridge seemingly different worlds.

Alecia, welcome to Owl Have You Know. I'm so happy to have you join me today.

[01:02]Alecia Harris: Thank you for having me, Brian. It's so fun. I'm excited. Looking forward to it.

[01:05]Brian Jackson: Well, it's going to be a really interesting conversation for our listeners. Your background to me is just so interesting. You know, was there a first piece of art that just really moved you and you can remember and, kind of, connect back to that point?

[01:19]Alecia Harris: That's a great question. But can I counter maybe with how I fell in love with this whole thing? I switched my major five different times in undergrad, just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And my parents finally just asked me, like, "What's something that sparks joy? Like, what brings you happiness?" And I was like, "Well, I like reading." And so, I was an English major, and then I found out there was this thing called a curator, and so I switched to history, and then I found out you could get really particular. There was this thing called art history, and I have never looked back because art history was this beautiful culmination of all these things that I was interested in.

You have to know a little bit about literature and maybe, like, pop culture if you're dealing with contemporary art and living artists like I do, and history. And so, it was this beautiful marriage of all these things that I was looking for. And so, like most things that I do, I took a serpentine path to get there, but it ends up being this very meaningful arrival point once I got there. And so, it's less a particular piece and more just, like, the industry that I found that was like, "Aha, this is where I belong."

[02:27]Brian Jackson: No, that makes sense. So, one thing about art, I mean, it can be intimidating, right? To go into a gallery or museum, and I even find, you know, I'll think, "What am I supposed to be thinking? What's the message? I just wish I had the SparkNotes that would tell me what I'm supposed to feel."

[02:41]Alecia Harris: For sure.

[02:43]Brian Jackson: For folks who feel like that, what would you say to them, where, you know, they just don't feel like they get it?

[02:48]Alecia Harris: Yeah. I'd say you're not alone. And unfortunately, I think historically a lot of these places have been made intentionally to cultivate that. Like, they want people in this... It's this weird dichotomy where they want to develop new galleries, want to develop new patrons, museums want to develop new audiences, but then we also come from this historic background of being gatekeepers and wanting you to prove that you're supposed to be there before they are willing to engage.

So much so to where that is what I focused on when I was working at Rice University at Moody Center for the Arts, and I was Director of Visitor Experiences. And my whole MO was, how can we break down those walls, those barriers? I want to know who doesn't feel comfortable coming here, and how can we meet them where they are and make them feel welcome?

So, our whole thing there, our whole thing at Rothko Chapel, where I work now, is radical hospitality, and so really bending over backwards because I totally understand why people have that impulse of feelings of, "This place is intimidating, and it's not for me." That's why I stayed away from contemporary art for so long, or visual art.

I thought it was for really smart, inspired people who stood in front of a blank canvas and just something came to them, and they threw something up. But once I realized with art history that there was a process to it, they're extremely logical, there's rational, there's building blocks to how they got to where they were, it, kind of, helped demystify.

And so, I would say, hold on to that. I personally love taking people who aren't art people through art spaces. I love... I have an eight-year-old. I love taking her and her cousin. Like, those answers that aren't pre-programmed and those very genuine initial responses to the work, like, that's so much more exciting than someone that reads every art forum and has these canned responses.

It's about just looking and what kind of feeling does it elicit from you. That's really all you need to know. And feel confident in the fact that a lot of established art people are just making it up anyways and just trust that your initial impression is the right one, and you don't have to be an expert in it.

[05:01]Brian Jackson: Yeah. What, I mean, the idea of like radical hospitality making art accessible, you know, you've given a few ways what it actually looks like in practice, but, you know, the mission, why is that so important to you?

[05:14]Alecia Harris: Well, I think because we have these organizations like Rothko Chapel, like Moody Center for the Arts, like the Menil, they're free. They're meant to be for Houston. They're meant to be for everybody and accessible. I feel so lucky that now, at this organization I'm at, I just have to be an expert in these 14 Mark Rothko paintings, and I get to get into the nitty-gritty about the composition and the chemicals and how it is that they were made.

But if you stand in front of a piece of work, often Rothko paintings, like people talk about having your Rothko moment, people are moved to tears. They have these transformative experiences in front of it. Why shouldn't that be available to everybody?

And for me, even when I was working at J.P. Morgan, and I was working in finance, like, I had to have access to art every day because for me, it's like breathing. And I think good art holds a mirror up to society. It helps you process universal truths. It helps you connect to people. It's so important to me. It's not a luxury. It's something that I think everybody has to have access to. And so, anything that I can do to make people feel as if they also have ownership over this, they have a right to access it, that's something that I'm very motivated by.

[06:25]Brian Jackson: So, there might be listeners who aren't familiar with the Rothko Chapel. I'm just curious, how do you describe it?

[06:33]Alecia Harris: I say it's a sacred space, non-denominational, and we've got 14 monumental paintings by the artist Mark Rothko, and it's a convening space for all. And so, inside the chapel, we have the Mark Rothko paintings. Outside the chapel, there's the reflecting pool and a sculpture by the artist Barnett Newman that's dedicated... It is called the Broken Obelisk, and it's dedicated to Martin Luther King.

So, we say you go inside the chapel, it's for sacred contemplation. You're sitting there, maybe you're stirred to moral awakening, and you come outside, and you have this Broken Obelisk that's, kind of, like a lightning rod, and that's where it sparks the action.

[07:12]Brian Jackson: That's incredible. During law school, when I had to make big decisions, that's where I would go, and I would sit.

[07:18]Alecia Harris: Oh, amazing. See, these are the stories that I, like…are so motivating.

[07:24]Brian Jackson: No, it's just so striking, and you look at the paintings and, you know, at first glance you go, "Oh, they're black," and then you realize, no, they're not, and then you stare and you stare and you see different colors and, you know, there's blue, orange, et cetera, and it's just... It's really just an incredible space. And you all just recently finished, I think, a renovation?

[07:41]Alecia Harris: We did, yeah. And so, if you haven't been to the chapel in the last five years, we renovated the skylight, and so, so much so, it's been a really interesting discussion. There's so much more light in the chapel now. And so, for 50 years, people were used to seeing these dark paintings in a dark setting, like, I think it really underscored, you know, "Oh, this was Mark Rothko and his depressive stage, and you go there when it's heavy, and so you go there when you're feeling heavy."

And now with the light in it, you can see more variations in the dark purples and the plums and the maroons and the blacks. There's just so much more light in it. And the interesting thing is, this is the light that mimics the studio that Rothko had in New York.

So, this was always the way that he'd intended for the paintings to be seen, but he underestimated the hot Texas sun, and so they had to create a situation to protect the paintings from the light once they were installed. And finally, after 50 years, they came up with this very sophisticated Venetian blind, sort of, mechanism that allows us to have tons of light in the space and protect the paintings.

But it's a completely different experience, and I think it's more moving. It feels very different depending on the time of day that you're in. If it's overcast, there's, sort of, more opportunities to engage with the paintings in different ways.

[09:11]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, I mean, at some point you decided, "Okay, I want my MBA," which to me feels like a bit of a departure from the arts world. What, at that moment, were you thinking was missing from your career, your toolkit, that made business school the next step?

[09:27]Alecia Harris: I was working, well, post-COVID, right? Where we all had tons of time for introspection, and so I knew there was some kind of logical next step, but I didn't know what it was. I was working at the Moody Center for the Arts, and I realized I needed, kind of, more professionalization.

The great thing about the Moody at the time, it was still, kind of, new. Like, I was on, sort of, the first class of employees through the door. I was the first in my position. I got to build all of it and create the structure around it with leadership. And so, I took a step of doing the LINE program, which is the Leadership Institute for Nonprofit Executives at Rice, and it was this great 10-month program, essentially a crash course in how to run a nonprofit, and it gave me enough insight to realize that I needed more than surface-level.

And so, I figured that an in-depth MBA could be the way to do it. But then also to this point of what we talked about earlier, I was really concerned with who wasn't coming to the Moody and why. And I really care... Like I said, I care about the arts in Houston. Houston's in a, sort of, unique philanthropic model in that we get less civic support, and so we have 100-year history of relying on really philanthropic individuals. But if your mission doesn't resonate with the city, if what you're doing isn't relevant to them, then, like, these organizations aren't going to be here in another 100 years. It's really important to me that we had programming that was speaking to this ever-shifting demographic in Houston.

And so, we were a small staff, you know, 10 or fewer, and university museums have a lot of different stakeholders, and so I was really the only one that could be plagued with this question. And so, I was like, "Well, the Moody is great. There's a ceiling here. I need a bigger platform to really pound the pulpit and make people care about this issue." So, I thought I wanted to be COO of the Museum of Fine Arts, and as I was like, "Well, I need to figure out how to run an organization." And so, MBA was the nice logical next step.

And I met with the COO when I got to business school, and I told him, "I want to take your job," and he loved it. And he was going to help me and create a position for me. But then, at the same time, I spoke with a person, a friend who we'd been on a couple of steering committees together, and I asked her, I was like, "I know you have young kids," and my daughter was two at the time. "And you work in finance. What do you do that's not investment banking?"

And she taught me about private wealth management, and I spoke with her. I spoke with another banker who specifically just managed endowments for nonprofits, and I realized I'd done a lot at nonprofits, but I'd never done anything on the finance side. So, I joined the J.P. Morgan Private Bank to do just that, to work with a book that I built with art collectors, museum donors, and the endowments for nonprofits. And yeah, before 2021, I didn't even know what private wealth management was.

[12:19]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, I think it's clear, like, there are transferable skills, right, between the two. But how do you shift that conversation that you used to have with individuals, and then all of a sudden you switch it to, "I'm in private wealth management, and I'm a reliable, trusted source who you can, you know, actually lean on for intelligent advice"? How do you have that conversation and get to credibility?

[12:46]Alecia Harris: That's a great question. I think for me, my path was quite singular because I'd known these audiences that I was building relationships with. I'd been doing that for about a decade. So, trust was established, and then this art connection, which is genuine because, like, we're going to art fairs, we're going to art gallery openings, museum openings, we're seeing each other several times a year, and so that establishes trust, right? That you're genuinely here, that we have this deep passion that's a mutual shared thing.

And so, that really accelerates the bond. But that's why I picked an organization like J.P. Morgan, because it's like I need to borrow a lot of that clout. I need to borrow that 200-plus-year history. I need the J.P. Morgan University. It's a trusted brand, and so people knew that even if maybe I didn't have the answer right away, I had tons of access to resources to where I could get them.

And I managed a team, right? I worked on more complex balance sheets, and so there was me and an investor tied to each of it, so I just needed to know enough about investments to be dangerous. And I had, like, an estate planning attorney. Like, we had the entire kitchen sink there. And my job was just to deliver them and really be the mediator. I think that it was just leveraging those long and hard-won relationships and then leveraging the reputation of the bank.

[14:11]Brian Jackson: Yeah, so you're approaching these contacts with now a, you know, freshly minted MBA from Rice, and then you are also working at J.P. Morgan, a premier institution. I mean, that buys you a lot of credibility on top of the relationship.

When you were at Rice, I'm curious, like, what was the steepest learning curve? Because I struggled. I mean, my undergrad was political science, and then, you know, I did law school, and then all of a sudden I'm looking at spreadsheets in Excel, and I avoid them like the plague. Just curious, from your side, what part was a challenge?

[14:43]Alecia Harris: The first semester. Everything in the first semester. Yeah, I think being a humanities undergrad, and I was in the professional program, so I was still working at Moody at the time, and had my daughter. Now, in hindsight, that, you know, I made it through, and I was successful, it was an incredible privilege to learn just how much you really can manage.

I think that I've carried that with me ever since. And, you know, I remember, like, being in business school and thinking, "Oh, I only have five papers due this week. Like, this is a breeze." And so, it was an important lesson to just, kind of, see, like, how resilient you could be.

But the first time where I was just like, "What have I signed up for?" was my first accounting class. I mean, it's not even Greek. It's like, I don't know, something that doesn't use any kind of recognizable alphabet. I still don't know everything about accounting, but I can read a balance sheet.

[15:40]Brian Jackson: And maybe that's enough, right? Maybe that's all you need.

[15:43]Alecia Harris: Yeah.

[15:44]Brian Jackson: Well, when I think of, like, wealth management, you were, kind of, explaining, like, you have this team and all these resources, and my thinking is, like, anyone on the team has to be analytical, but it seems like there's more than that. And, you know, there were elements of your background and your experience that you brought that probably helped push deals forward that hadn't been pushed before. I'd be curious to know more about that and what you saw come out that ended up being a huge advantage to the team.

[16:13]Alecia Harris: Yeah, I think at the time I was the only art person in the Houston office. Like Miami, New York, there's more bankers there that come from the art world, and we're, sort of, actively cultivating relationships there. Here, I was the first one, so it just opened, kind of, a whole new world to us. We don't have an art advisory practice. J.P. Morgan, they have a fantastic corporate art collection, I think, like the oldest one in the country, that was started by David Rockefeller in 1959, and then it has all these legacy banks as well, and so it's just amassed like a 40-thousand-item collection.

But like we had this gem in the client center, and no one else felt comfortable, for instance, like giving a tour or talking about the art. And so, I would sit in on other bankers' meetings and start their meetings off by giving their clients a tour. And art was a big part of J.P. Morgan's DNA, so I think it was important that you had somebody here in the office that could, kind of, connect those dots for people. And it just gave a lot of buy-in to local collectors, which we have a very robust and savvy collector base.

[17:17]Brian Jackson: So, this pivot from J.P. Morgan then back to nonprofit and arts, what prompted you? Was it just, like, right job, right timing? Maybe it's right stage of life?

[17:29]Alecia Harris: Yeah. I think if I'd had too long to think about it, I might not have done it. I was at that nice inflection point at the bank. I was about three years in, and I was, kind of, at this point where it's like, "Okay, am I... Is this what I'm going to be forever? You know, is this what I want to do, or am I potentially looking somewhere else?"

But really, I was on the advisory board for the Rothko Chapel on the development committee, and we had this really exciting new president, Abdullah Antepli. He comes from Duke, where he was running the poli-sci department and religion. He's an imam, he's a religious leader, and an expert. And I thought, what an exciting time, because it really takes vision to bring this, kind of, three-pillared mission of art, spirituality, and justice.

And Abdullah, our new president, had this great religious and justice side of it, and I knew the art side quite well. And so, I decided that we would be a force to reckon with together. But I think I picked up on what a lot of people are, and that this is a really exciting time for the Rothko Chapel.

You know, when Dominique de Menil was here, we were world-renowned, world-known. Like Nelson Mandela came, Jimmy Carter, the Dalai Lama came twice. And I think all of Houston really knew about it, too. It was on this global platform, and it's gone through just a quieter phase. And if you meet Abdullah, like, quiet is not a word that anybody would use to describe him. He's a real force, and I think I wanted to be a part of this next stage that's, in a lot of ways, looking back to its storied history, but then also looking to the future and really meets the moment with his vision of being this sacred space where we're convening to hold difficult discussions.

And in this area where there are fewer and fewer places where we can talk to each other, how important is it for us to be able to be a place where we can facilitate this and teach everyone to talk to each other again when you disagree? So, it felt, kind of, like a moral compulsion, and in this very Pollyannic way, like maybe potentially we could help solve this big tension and this tumult that everybody feels right now.

[19:41]Brian Jackson: Yeah. I mean, buying into the mission and vision of a leader, and then you're in a role that helps him propel it. Because development, you're bringing in the dollars to make the vision possible.

[19:53]Alecia Harris: Right. And it's quite easy really because... Which I never thought that I would say, but again, I think it's just that the mission is so relevant right now, and there's also, like, several entry points for people, right? Like, if you're not moved by the paintings of Mark Rothko, maybe you, you know, classify as an incredibly spiritual person, and you walk into the chapel, and we have pretty much every sacred text in front. Like, it's non-denominational, you know, it's ecumenical, and so it's something for everybody. People literally make a pilgrimage. One is like an art mecca space, and then one is just like a, kind of, holy journey to the chapel. Or maybe you respond to the justice side.

And so, there are several points for people to feel connected to the chapel. It's been really surprising being on this side, hearing the deeply personal connections people have. Like, my barista the other day told me that she went there and cried for an hour and a half when her uncle died, and so many people told me they'd been engaged there, they'd been married there. So, it's like the myth-making for fundraising has already been done because it means so much to so many people.

My job is to really just create channels for them to support the chapel and to help amplify the message and get it out to more people. I really want Houstonians to realize, like, we have Mark Rothko's kids are on the board, and his son says that the chapel was his dad's magnum opus.

And if you could argue potentially, you know, Mark Rothko was the greatest painter of the 20th century, and for his greatest work to be in Houston, Texas, where he never... He never visited, by the way. He died before he got to see the chapel and the paintings installed. It's really crazy, and it should be a huge point of pride for Houstonians.

[21:36]Brian Jackson: I totally agree. So, working in development there, what does your day-to-day look like?

[21:41]Alecia Harris: Every day it's something different, which is exciting, and also the reason that I joined. Like I said, we're, sort of, in this acceleration point. Abdullah has big, audacious vision and goals for the chapel, and so we're getting to, sort of, build the plane while we're flying, and all of the fun, exciting opportunities that come with that.

But I do everything from the fundraising strategy to strategic partners, managing different committees and board interaction, board liaising, working with the other chief members of the team on the Chief Engagement Officer, Chief Operating Officer, to make sure just all of the pistons are firing together. I feel fortunate with my finance background, like I'm not just focused on bringing the funds in, but very focused on what funds are going out.

And so, I think it's really helpful to make sure that these departments are really working in tandem. I mean, with the communications department, they're essentially feeding me the tools and the products that I need to communicate with the public and with donors about what it is that we're doing, what we're focused on.

Also helping us to arm our board members with how to talk about the chapel, and then with finance, just making sure that I'm bringing in funds at the right time to align with cash flow. We have a big capital campaign going on as well right now. So, it's… What donations do we have coming in? When is, you know, construction supposed to start on this part of the building?

I never would have had that 50-thousand square foot view or really been able to understand how all the different pieces came together if I hadn't gone to business school. So, I'm so fortunate that I have that perspective. One, just the scope of programs that we learned at Rice, but then also getting that experience working at the bank, and now being able to bring all of that to this very worthwhile organization is incredibly meaningful.

[23:43]Brian Jackson: Working across arts programming, private wealth, and now nonprofit leadership, you know, are there leadership qualities that you're seeing that have mattered in every one of these settings?

[23:53]Alecia Harris: I think for me, there's not really the qualities that I look for in a leader that I don't think look for and think are worthwhile in just general human beings. Like this curiosity and openness, a willingness to listen. I think we can learn so much from unexpected places, take inspiration from unexpected places. I'm somebody that's a big info gatherer, and I'll take something, and it's like I don't really know what I'm going to do with that or why I needed to know that right now, but I'll put it, you know, in my back pocket. And then those moments when you're able to make the connection later and it, kind of, unlocks new meaning or new opportunity, those are always really rewarding.

The growth mindset we talked a lot about in business school, I really can't de-emphasize, like, how important that is, especially for an organization that's 55 years old. You know, you don't want to take down fences without knowing why they're there first, but obviously, a lot can change in 50 years.

And so, figuring out who else we can learn from, adopt from is something that's making the organization a lot stronger and a lot more efficient. I think this is my really kind of biggest sticking point with nonprofits, we work like bankers' hours without the banker paycheck. And it doesn't always have to be this hard.

So, when I was at the bank, I was on four different boards and nine different advisory committees. Like, clearly, nonprofit was still pulling me, calling me. And when I was at Rice, I was the Chief Talent Officer for the Board Fellows, and so did a ton with nonprofits there.

And they're always trying to figure out how we could do more with less. And I just think that there's a lot of time wasted chasing opportunities that might look right for one organization that aren't right for another. And if we were to just, like, stop and take a beat and think about, you know, kind of, stay mission-focused and then pay attention to what our counterparts are doing, but then only adopt things that really make sense for us, we could be a lot more efficient with this very limited time and resources that we have. That's the thing that I'm always pounding the table on.

[26:07]Brian Jackson: Yeah. I mean, you've been involved, and you were talking about board leadership. You know, for listeners that are looking for a career in the arts and want to support, I mean, I feel like it's similar to volunteering with the alumni at Rice, where it's either you can donate your time, you can donate your money, but we want your support. Is that, kind of, a similar pathway to a career? If this is something that draws you, find your way to connect, and give back, and be in tune.

[26:37]Alecia Harris: Absolutely. I think for any organization, I say start with their mailing list. Like, get to know them through their programming. Attend the things that you can for free. Then the next step would be their annual fundraiser. Ours is on November 11th at the Ismaili Center. Put it on your calendars. It'll be a luncheon. We have the artist Hank Willis Thomas, who's really fantastic. He's in the Guggenheim Collection, the Whitney Collection. He does a lot of... Our upcoming program season is focused on democracy and citizenship, and what role does art and faith have in democracy and citizenship in conjunction with the nation's 250th anniversary.

And Hank has dealt a lot with democracy and thinking who participates in it, who's left out of it, all of this. And so, it should be a really interesting conversation. But attend the fundraiser. If you make a large enough donation, they will find you. But look to see if they have young patrons groups or more established patron groups. Ours are called The Luminaries, but that's a good way for you to... I think it's a good, kind of, low-stakes way for you to get to know the organization more intimately.

And then from there, if you're someone who raises your hand, if you have a particular skill set or expertise that they're looking for, good organizations have, kind of, a board matrix, and they're looking at who's on their board, who's missing, what skill set, what expertise are we missing, and then they'll, kind of, plug you in accordingly. So, then board service would be a good way. And I think also oftentimes, full-time staff come from boards. I was on the advisory committee and was either going to join the board or join staff, and that's how I got where I am.

[28:15]Brian Jackson: Yeah, super helpful to know. One thing I wanted to ask about, outside of work, you and your family enjoy traveling and experiencing art around the world. Is there a particular artistic or cultural experience that has stuck with you?

[28:28]Alecia Harris: Hmm. So, many, because, like, art is like my primary driving force for travel. But I will make a plug, because it never disappoints, for Zona Maco in Mexico City. One, they're our neighbors. Like, we are so lucky as Houstonians, as Texans, to be so close to Mexico City. It, for me, it's, like, scratches my, like, New York fix, it scratches my "I want to go to Paris" fix, but I only have a weekend.

So, Zona Maco is their big art fair, kind of, like their Art Basel for comparison, like, that's the big anchor fair. But then there are all these really cool, interesting fairs that are going on at the same time. Like, there's this one called Material, there's one called ACME that's sort of design-focused.

And then at the same time, all the museums, all the galleries are putting on their very best shows, too. There are tons of great parties. I mean, you can't throw a stone without ending up at a good restaurant in Mexico City. And they're all, kind of, within walking distance of these great, you know, like Roma and Condesa, like, all these beautiful, very green neighborhoods, which is crazy considering the amount of, like, pollution and how large Mexico City is.

But there's this electricity that's in the air, maybe it's the pollution, but you feel like a high, like, as soon as you get there. I mean, as far as art fairs go, like, the overall cost is, like, it's something that students could do. It's also very family-friendly. And the difference it's for one thing, is it, kind of, like, you have all of these fantastic Central and Latin American artists that are showing. So, there's, like, Mexico comes out to show, like, their best in full force. But then you also have, like, your Gagosian. Like you have your top galleries from all the world that they want to have a presence there as well.

And so, you can have New York in the middle of Mexico City, but then you also get this ecosystem that doesn't exist anywhere else. And the two of them, kind of, talking together, like that's always a really interesting conversation. But it's just like it doesn't matter how good the gallery show is here. Like ours are not in these Beaux-Arts buildings from the 19th century that used to be a governor's palace. Like there's no... It's not the white-box gallery. It's just these insanely beautiful structures. And there's room for like serendipity, and you're just walking through, and you happen upon like this insane space, and then there just happens to be like this very, like a cool, like, underground party going on underneath it.

Every single time, it requires very little decision-making to decide that Mexico City is a yes. And there are art fairs in February at Zona Maco.

[31:07]Brian Jackson: February. Okay. Is there something in Houston, an experience that you wish more people knew about, a hidden gem maybe?

[31:13]Alecia Harris: I mean, the Menil campus, right? Wouldn't you agree?

[31:17]Brian Jackson: I agree.

[31:18]Alecia Harris: The fact that it's in the middle of the city and it's an oasis. I mean, you can come to the chapel, obviously, to get away. I keep saying it to, like, all of my friends from business school and the corporate world, like, "Come take a break if you can get away for a day," because we're not good at slowing down and taking those moments. Like I had to teach myself to do it. I literally have to block off the time on my calendar to walk across the street to go to the chapel. But I think that, and we have the Menil, we have the Menil Drawing Center, the Cy Twombly Gallery, all of these things, like, are within walking distance and 10 minutes from downtown. I think that's my hidden gem. And they're all free, and there's ample parking. So, that's something that everyone should be doing.

[32:03]Brian Jackson: And taking advantage of it. We are incredibly fortunate to have that in our backyard.

I think my last question really, like, a call to action. You know, looking at the Rice Business community, looking at alumni, you know, one, I think, getting involved is beneficial because it broadens our thinking and connects us to art and to community. But do you have a call to action for the Rice Business community in a way that we can support?

[32:29]Alecia Harris: I do. Houston is a city that relies overwhelmingly on the largesse of individuals. And we have this robust patron group that's on their way out, and there's this great transfer of wealth that's happening, something $60-plus-trillion. I hope that it would look to us and younger generations as filling that void to come in and support these incredible institutions that we have here. I mean, Houston Grand Opera is the only opera that's consistently running in the black in the country.

Artists that are in New York want to come and perform in Houston; they want to be in our collections. It's all here in our backyard, and we have to support it, or else it won't continue to be. And so, I just I would even be open if people wanted to reach out to me and let me know what it is that maybe stops them from wanting to be involved with the organizations. I do think that there's also a marketing problem with these storied institutions, you know, these younger generations, like, they don't care about having their name on a donor wall, right?

And so, what do you care about? What do you want to hear from your and see from your organizations, hold them accountable so you can take ownership over stewarding them into the next 100 years?

[33:47]Brian Jackson: Yeah, it's building a community legacy. Thank you so much, Alecia. It has been just a supreme pleasure having you on Owl Have You Know today.

[33:55]Alecia Harris: Thank you, Brian. I really appreciate it.

[34:01]Brian Jackson: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Brian Jackson, and Maya Pomroy.