[00:00]Brian Jackson: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Today I'm joined by Alecia Harris, Professional MBA Class of 2023, and now the Chief Development Officer at the Rothko Chapel. Alecia has built a career proving that the worlds of art and business are far more connected than many people realize. After beginning her professional journey in the arts, she earned her MBA from Rice Business, then joined J.P. Morgan's Private Bank, and now leads development for one of Houston's most iconic cultural institutions.

In this conversation, we'll discuss her unconventional path from art history to wealth management and then back to the arts, what she's learned about leadership and legacy, the unique role Rothko Chapel plays in Houston's cultural landscape, and how an MBA helped her bridge seemingly different worlds.

Alecia, welcome to Owl Have You Know. I'm so happy to have you join me today.

[01:02]Alecia Harris: Thank you for having me, Brian. It's so fun. I'm excited. Looking forward to it.

[01:05]Brian Jackson: Well, it's going to be a really interesting conversation for our listeners. Your background to me is just so interesting. You know, was there a first piece of art that just really moved you and you can remember and, kind of, connect back to that point?

[01:19]Alecia Harris: That's a great question. But can I counter maybe with how I fell in love with this whole thing? I switched my major five different times in undergrad, just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And my parents finally just asked me, like, "What's something that sparks joy? Like, what brings you happiness?" And I was like, "Well, I like reading." And so, I was an English major, and then I found out there was this thing called a curator, and so I switched to history, and then I found out you could get really particular. There was this thing called art history, and I have never looked back because art history was this beautiful culmination of all these things that I was interested in.

You have to know a little bit about literature and maybe, like, pop culture if you're dealing with contemporary art and living artists like I do, and history. And so, it was this beautiful marriage of all these things that I was looking for. And so, like most things that I do, I took a serpentine path to get there, but it ends up being this very meaningful arrival point once I got there. And so, it's less a particular piece and more just, like, the industry that I found that was like, "Aha, this is where I belong."

[02:27]Brian Jackson: No, that makes sense. So, one thing about art, I mean, it can be intimidating, right? To go into a gallery or museum, and I even find, you know, I'll think, "What am I supposed to be thinking? What's the message? I just wish I had the SparkNotes that would tell me what I'm supposed to feel."

[02:41]Alecia Harris: For sure.

[02:43]Brian Jackson: For folks who feel like that, what would you say to them, where, you know, they just don't feel like they get it?

[02:48]Alecia Harris: Yeah. I'd say you're not alone. And unfortunately, I think historically a lot of these places have been made intentionally to cultivate that. Like, they want people in this... It's this weird dichotomy where they want to develop new galleries, want to develop new patrons, museums want to develop new audiences, but then we also come from this historic background of being gatekeepers and wanting you to prove that you're supposed to be there before they are willing to engage.

So much so to where that is what I focused on when I was working at Rice University at Moody Center for the Arts, and I was Director of Visitor Experiences. And my whole MO was, how can we break down those walls, those barriers? I want to know who doesn't feel comfortable coming here, and how can we meet them where they are and make them feel welcome?

So, our whole thing there, our whole thing at Rothko Chapel, where I work now, is radical hospitality, and so really bending over backwards because I totally understand why people have that impulse of feelings of, "This place is intimidating, and it's not for me." That's why I stayed away from contemporary art for so long, or visual art.

I thought it was for really smart, inspired people who stood in front of a blank canvas and just something came to them, and they threw something up. But once I realized with art history that there was a process to it, they're extremely logical, there's rational, there's building blocks to how they got to where they were, it, kind of, helped demystify.

And so, I would say, hold on to that. I personally love taking people who aren't art people through art spaces. I love... I have an eight-year-old. I love taking her and her cousin. Like, those answers that aren't pre-programmed and those very genuine initial responses to the work, like, that's so much more exciting than someone that reads every art forum and has these canned responses.

It's about just looking and what kind of feeling does it elicit from you. That's really all you need to know. And feel confident in the fact that a lot of established art people are just making it up anyways and just trust that your initial impression is the right one, and you don't have to be an expert in it.

[05:01]Brian Jackson: Yeah. What, I mean, the idea of like radical hospitality making art accessible, you know, you've given a few ways what it actually looks like in practice, but, you know, the mission, why is that so important to you?

[05:14]Alecia Harris: Well, I think because we have these organizations like Rothko Chapel, like Moody Center for the Arts, like the Menil, they're free. They're meant to be for Houston. They're meant to be for everybody and accessible. I feel so lucky that now, at this organization I'm at, I just have to be an expert in these 14 Mark Rothko paintings, and I get to get into the nitty-gritty about the composition and the chemicals and how it is that they were made.

But if you stand in front of a piece of work, often Rothko paintings, like people talk about having your Rothko moment, people are moved to tears. They have these transformative experiences in front of it. Why shouldn't that be available to everybody?

And for me, even when I was working at J.P. Morgan, and I was working in finance, like, I had to have access to art every day because for me, it's like breathing. And I think good art holds a mirror up to society. It helps you process universal truths. It helps you connect to people. It's so important to me. It's not a luxury. It's something that I think everybody has to have access to. And so, anything that I can do to make people feel as if they also have ownership over this, they have a right to access it, that's something that I'm very motivated by.

[06:25]Brian Jackson: So, there might be listeners who aren't familiar with the Rothko Chapel. I'm just curious, how do you describe it?

[06:33]Alecia Harris: I say it's a sacred space, non-denominational, and we've got 14 monumental paintings by the artist Mark Rothko, and it's a convening space for all. And so, inside the chapel, we have the Mark Rothko paintings. Outside the chapel, there's the reflecting pool and a sculpture by the artist Barnett Newman that's dedicated... It is called the Broken Obelisk, and it's dedicated to Martin Luther King.

So, we say you go inside the chapel, it's for sacred contemplation. You're sitting there, maybe you're stirred to moral awakening, and you come outside, and you have this Broken Obelisk that's, kind of, like a lightning rod, and that's where it sparks the action.

[07:12]Brian Jackson: That's incredible. During law school, when I had to make big decisions, that's where I would go, and I would sit.

[07:18]Alecia Harris: Oh, amazing. See, these are the stories that I, like…are so motivating.

[07:24]Brian Jackson: No, it's just so striking, and you look at the paintings and, you know, at first glance you go, "Oh, they're black," and then you realize, no, they're not, and then you stare and you stare and you see different colors and, you know, there's blue, orange, et cetera, and it's just... It's really just an incredible space. And you all just recently finished, I think, a renovation?

[07:41]Alecia Harris: We did, yeah. And so, if you haven't been to the chapel in the last five years, we renovated the skylight, and so, so much so, it's been a really interesting discussion. There's so much more light in the chapel now. And so, for 50 years, people were used to seeing these dark paintings in a dark setting, like, I think it really underscored, you know, "Oh, this was Mark Rothko and his depressive stage, and you go there when it's heavy, and so you go there when you're feeling heavy."

And now with the light in it, you can see more variations in the dark purples and the plums and the maroons and the blacks. There's just so much more light in it. And the interesting thing is, this is the light that mimics the studio that Rothko had in New York.

So, this was always the way that he'd intended for the paintings to be seen, but he underestimated the hot Texas sun, and so they had to create a situation to protect the paintings from the light once they were installed. And finally, after 50 years, they came up with this very sophisticated Venetian blind, sort of, mechanism that allows us to have tons of light in the space and protect the paintings.

But it's a completely different experience, and I think it's more moving. It feels very different depending on the time of day that you're in. If it's overcast, there's, sort of, more opportunities to engage with the paintings in different ways.

[09:11]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, I mean, at some point you decided, "Okay, I want my MBA," which to me feels like a bit of a departure from the arts world. What, at that moment, were you thinking was missing from your career, your toolkit, that made business school the next step?

[09:27]Alecia Harris: I was working, well, post-COVID, right? Where we all had tons of time for introspection, and so I knew there was some kind of logical next step, but I didn't know what it was. I was working at the Moody Center for the Arts, and I realized I needed, kind of, more professionalization.

The great thing about the Moody at the time, it was still, kind of, new. Like, I was on, sort of, the first class of employees through the door. I was the first in my position. I got to build all of it and create the structure around it with leadership. And so, I took a step of doing the LINE program, which is the Leadership Institute for Nonprofit Executives at Rice, and it was this great 10-month program, essentially a crash course in how to run a nonprofit, and it gave me enough insight to realize that I needed more than surface-level.

And so, I figured that an in-depth MBA could be the way to do it. But then also to this point of what we talked about earlier, I was really concerned with who wasn't coming to the Moody and why. And I really care... Like I said, I care about the arts in Houston. Houston's in a, sort of, unique philanthropic model in that we get less civic support, and so we have 100-year history of relying on really philanthropic individuals. But if your mission doesn't resonate with the city, if what you're doing isn't relevant to them, then, like, these organizations aren't going to be here in another 100 years. It's really important to me that we had programming that was speaking to this ever-shifting demographic in Houston.

And so, we were a small staff, you know, 10 or fewer, and university museums have a lot of different stakeholders, and so I was really the only one that could be plagued with this question. And so, I was like, "Well, the Moody is great. There's a ceiling here. I need a bigger platform to really pound the pulpit and make people care about this issue." So, I thought I wanted to be COO of the Museum of Fine Arts, and as I was like, "Well, I need to figure out how to run an organization." And so, MBA was the nice logical next step.

And I met with the COO when I got to business school, and I told him, "I want to take your job," and he loved it. And he was going to help me and create a position for me. But then, at the same time, I spoke with a person, a friend who we'd been on a couple of steering committees together, and I asked her, I was like, "I know you have young kids," and my daughter was two at the time. "And you work in finance. What do you do that's not investment banking?"

And she taught me about private wealth management, and I spoke with her. I spoke with another banker who specifically just managed endowments for nonprofits, and I realized I'd done a lot at nonprofits, but I'd never done anything on the finance side. So, I joined the J.P. Morgan Private Bank to do just that, to work with a book that I built with art collectors, museum donors, and the endowments for nonprofits. And yeah, before 2021, I didn't even know what private wealth management was.

[12:19]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, I think it's clear, like, there are transferable skills, right, between the two. But how do you shift that conversation that you used to have with individuals, and then all of a sudden you switch it to, "I'm in private wealth management, and I'm a reliable, trusted source who you can, you know, actually lean on for intelligent advice"? How do you have that conversation and get to credibility?

[12:46]Alecia Harris: That's a great question. I think for me, my path was quite singular because I'd known these audiences that I was building relationships with. I'd been doing that for about a decade. So, trust was established, and then this art connection, which is genuine because, like, we're going to art fairs, we're going to art gallery openings, museum openings, we're seeing each other several times a year, and so that establishes trust, right? That you're genuinely here, that we have this deep passion that's a mutual shared thing.

And so, that really accelerates the bond. But that's why I picked an organization like J.P. Morgan, because it's like I need to borrow a lot of that clout. I need to borrow that 200-plus-year history. I need the J.P. Morgan University. It's a trusted brand, and so people knew that even if maybe I didn't have the answer right away, I had tons of access to resources to where I could get them.

And I managed a team, right? I worked on more complex balance sheets, and so there was me and an investor tied to each of it, so I just needed to know enough about investments to be dangerous. And I had, like, an estate planning attorney. Like, we had the entire kitchen sink there. And my job was just to deliver them and really be the mediator. I think that it was just leveraging those long and hard-won relationships and then leveraging the reputation of the bank.

[14:11]Brian Jackson: Yeah, so you're approaching these contacts with now a, you know, freshly minted MBA from Rice, and then you are also working at J.P. Morgan, a premier institution. I mean, that buys you a lot of credibility on top of the relationship.

When you were at Rice, I'm curious, like, what was the steepest learning curve? Because I struggled. I mean, my undergrad was political science, and then, you know, I did law school, and then all of a sudden I'm looking at spreadsheets in Excel, and I avoid them like the plague. Just curious, from your side, what part was a challenge?

[14:43]Alecia Harris: The first semester. Everything in the first semester. Yeah, I think being a humanities undergrad, and I was in the professional program, so I was still working at Moody at the time, and had my daughter. Now, in hindsight, that, you know, I made it through, and I was successful, it was an incredible privilege to learn just how much you really can manage.

I think that I've carried that with me ever since. And, you know, I remember, like, being in business school and thinking, "Oh, I only have five papers due this week. Like, this is a breeze." And so, it was an important lesson to just, kind of, see, like, how resilient you could be.

But the first time where I was just like, "What have I signed up for?" was my first accounting class. I mean, it's not even Greek. It's like, I don't know, something that doesn't use any kind of recognizable alphabet. I still don't know everything about accounting, but I can read a balance sheet.

[15:40]Brian Jackson: And maybe that's enough, right? Maybe that's all you need.

[15:43]Alecia Harris: Yeah.

[15:44]Brian Jackson: Well, when I think of, like, wealth management, you were, kind of, explaining, like, you have this team and all these resources, and my thinking is, like, anyone on the team has to be analytical, but it seems like there's more than that. And, you know, there were elements of your background and your experience that you brought that probably helped push deals forward that hadn't been pushed before. I'd be curious to know more about that and what you saw come out that ended up being a huge advantage to the team.

[16:13]Alecia Harris: Yeah, I think at the time I was the only art person in the Houston office. Like Miami, New York, there's more bankers there that come from the art world, and we're, sort of, actively cultivating relationships there. Here, I was the first one, so it just opened, kind of, a whole new world to us. We don't have an art advisory practice. J.P. Morgan, they have a fantastic corporate art collection, I think, like the oldest one in the country, that was started by David Rockefeller in 1959, and then it has all these legacy banks as well, and so it's just amassed like a 40-thousand-item collection.

But like we had this gem in the client center, and no one else felt comfortable, for instance, like giving a tour or talking about the art. And so, I would sit in on other bankers' meetings and start their meetings off by giving their clients a tour. And art was a big part of J.P. Morgan's DNA, so I think it was important that you had somebody here in the office that could, kind of, connect those dots for people. And it just gave a lot of buy-in to local collectors, which we have a very robust and savvy collector base.

[17:17]Brian Jackson: So, this pivot from J.P. Morgan then back to nonprofit and arts, what prompted you? Was it just, like, right job, right timing? Maybe it's right stage of life?

[17:29]Alecia Harris: Yeah. I think if I'd had too long to think about it, I might not have done it. I was at that nice inflection point at the bank. I was about three years in, and I was, kind of, at this point where it's like, "Okay, am I... Is this what I'm going to be forever? You know, is this what I want to do, or am I potentially looking somewhere else?"

But really, I was on the advisory board for the Rothko Chapel on the development committee, and we had this really exciting new president, Abdullah Antepli. He comes from Duke, where he was running the poli-sci department and religion. He's an imam, he's a religious leader, and an expert. And I thought, what an exciting time, because it really takes vision to bring this, kind of, three-pillared mission of art, spirituality, and justice.

And Abdullah, our new president, had this great religious and justice side of it, and I knew the art side quite well. And so, I decided that we would be a force to reckon with together. But I think I picked up on what a lot of people are, and that this is a really exciting time for the Rothko Chapel.

You know, when Dominique de Menil was here, we were world-renowned, world-known. Like Nelson Mandela came, Jimmy Carter, the Dalai Lama came twice. And I think all of Houston really knew about it, too. It was on this global platform, and it's gone through just a quieter phase. And if you meet Abdullah, like, quiet is not a word that anybody would use to describe him. He's a real force, and I think I wanted to be a part of this next stage that's, in a lot of ways, looking back to its storied history, but then also looking to the future and really meets the moment with his vision of being this sacred space where we're convening to hold difficult discussions.

And in this area where there are fewer and fewer places where we can talk to each other, how important is it for us to be able to be a place where we can facilitate this and teach everyone to talk to each other again when you disagree? So, it felt, kind of, like a moral compulsion, and in this very Pollyannic way, like maybe potentially we could help solve this big tension and this tumult that everybody feels right now.

[19:41]Brian Jackson: Yeah. I mean, buying into the mission and vision of a leader, and then you're in a role that helps him propel it. Because development, you're bringing in the dollars to make the vision possible.

[19:53]Alecia Harris: Right. And it's quite easy really because... Which I never thought that I would say, but again, I think it's just that the mission is so relevant right now, and there's also, like, several entry points for people, right? Like, if you're not moved by the paintings of Mark Rothko, maybe you, you know, classify as an incredibly spiritual person, and you walk into the chapel, and we have pretty much every sacred text in front. Like, it's non-denominational, you know, it's ecumenical, and so it's something for everybody. People literally make a pilgrimage. One is like an art mecca space, and then one is just like a, kind of, holy journey to the chapel. Or maybe you respond to the justice side.

And so, there are several points for people to feel connected to the chapel. It's been really surprising being on this side, hearing the deeply personal connections people have. Like, my barista the other day told me that she went there and cried for an hour and a half when her uncle died, and so many people told me they'd been engaged there, they'd been married there. So, it's like the myth-making for fundraising has already been done because it means so much to so many people.

My job is to really just create channels for them to support the chapel and to help amplify the message and get it out to more people. I really want Houstonians to realize, like, we have Mark Rothko's kids are on the board, and his son says that the chapel was his dad's magnum opus.

And if you could argue potentially, you know, Mark Rothko was the greatest painter of the 20th century, and for his greatest work to be in Houston, Texas, where he never... He never visited, by the way. He died before he got to see the chapel and the paintings installed. It's really crazy, and it should be a huge point of pride for Houstonians.

[21:36]Brian Jackson: I totally agree. So, working in development there, what does your day-to-day look like?

[21:41]Alecia Harris: Every day it's something different, which is exciting, and also the reason that I joined. Like I said, we're, sort of, in this acceleration point. Abdullah has big, audacious vision and goals for the chapel, and so we're getting to, sort of, build the plane while we're flying, and all of the fun, exciting opportunities that come with that.

But I do everything from the fundraising strategy to strategic partners, managing different committees and board interaction, board liaising, working with the other chief members of the team on the Chief Engagement Officer, Chief Operating Officer, to make sure just all of the pistons are firing together. I feel fortunate with my finance background, like I'm not just focused on bringing the funds in, but very focused on what funds are going out.

And so, I think it's really helpful to make sure that these departments are really working in tandem. I mean, with the communications department, they're essentially feeding me the tools and the products that I need to communicate with the public and with donors about what it is that we're doing, what we're focused on.

Also helping us to arm our board members with how to talk about the chapel, and then with finance, just making sure that I'm bringing in funds at the right time to align with cash flow. We have a big capital campaign going on as well right now. So, it's… What donations do we have coming in? When is, you know, construction supposed to start on this part of the building?

I never would have had that 50-thousand square foot view or really been able to understand how all the different pieces came together if I hadn't gone to business school. So, I'm so fortunate that I have that perspective. One, just the scope of programs that we learned at Rice, but then also getting that experience working at the bank, and now being able to bring all of that to this very worthwhile organization is incredibly meaningful.

[23:43]Brian Jackson: Working across arts programming, private wealth, and now nonprofit leadership, you know, are there leadership qualities that you're seeing that have mattered in every one of these settings?

[23:53]Alecia Harris: I think for me, there's not really the qualities that I look for in a leader that I don't think look for and think are worthwhile in just general human beings. Like this curiosity and openness, a willingness to listen. I think we can learn so much from unexpected places, take inspiration from unexpected places. I'm somebody that's a big info gatherer, and I'll take something, and it's like I don't really know what I'm going to do with that or why I needed to know that right now, but I'll put it, you know, in my back pocket. And then those moments when you're able to make the connection later and it, kind of, unlocks new meaning or new opportunity, those are always really rewarding.

The growth mindset we talked a lot about in business school, I really can't de-emphasize, like, how important that is, especially for an organization that's 55 years old. You know, you don't want to take down fences without knowing why they're there first, but obviously, a lot can change in 50 years.

And so, figuring out who else we can learn from, adopt from is something that's making the organization a lot stronger and a lot more efficient. I think this is my really kind of biggest sticking point with nonprofits, we work like bankers' hours without the banker paycheck. And it doesn't always have to be this hard.

So, when I was at the bank, I was on four different boards and nine different advisory committees. Like, clearly, nonprofit was still pulling me, calling me. And when I was at Rice, I was the Chief Talent Officer for the Board Fellows, and so did a ton with nonprofits there.

And they're always trying to figure out how we could do more with less. And I just think that there's a lot of time wasted chasing opportunities that might look right for one organization that aren't right for another. And if we were to just, like, stop and take a beat and think about, you know, kind of, stay mission-focused and then pay attention to what our counterparts are doing, but then only adopt things that really make sense for us, we could be a lot more efficient with this very limited time and resources that we have. That's the thing that I'm always pounding the table on.

[26:07]Brian Jackson: Yeah. I mean, you've been involved, and you were talking about board leadership. You know, for listeners that are looking for a career in the arts and want to support, I mean, I feel like it's similar to volunteering with the alumni at Rice, where it's either you can donate your time, you can donate your money, but we want your support. Is that, kind of, a similar pathway to a career? If this is something that draws you, find your way to connect, and give back, and be in tune.

[26:37]Alecia Harris: Absolutely. I think for any organization, I say start with their mailing list. Like, get to know them through their programming. Attend the things that you can for free. Then the next step would be their annual fundraiser. Ours is on November 11th at the Ismaili Center. Put it on your calendars. It'll be a luncheon. We have the artist Hank Willis Thomas, who's really fantastic. He's in the Guggenheim Collection, the Whitney Collection. He does a lot of... Our upcoming program season is focused on democracy and citizenship, and what role does art and faith have in democracy and citizenship in conjunction with the nation's 250th anniversary.

And Hank has dealt a lot with democracy and thinking who participates in it, who's left out of it, all of this. And so, it should be a really interesting conversation. But attend the fundraiser. If you make a large enough donation, they will find you. But look to see if they have young patrons groups or more established patron groups. Ours are called The Luminaries, but that's a good way for you to... I think it's a good, kind of, low-stakes way for you to get to know the organization more intimately.

And then from there, if you're someone who raises your hand, if you have a particular skill set or expertise that they're looking for, good organizations have, kind of, a board matrix, and they're looking at who's on their board, who's missing, what skill set, what expertise are we missing, and then they'll, kind of, plug you in accordingly. So, then board service would be a good way. And I think also oftentimes, full-time staff come from boards. I was on the advisory committee and was either going to join the board or join staff, and that's how I got where I am.

[28:15]Brian Jackson: Yeah, super helpful to know. One thing I wanted to ask about, outside of work, you and your family enjoy traveling and experiencing art around the world. Is there a particular artistic or cultural experience that has stuck with you?

[28:28]Alecia Harris: Hmm. So, many, because, like, art is like my primary driving force for travel. But I will make a plug, because it never disappoints, for Zona Maco in Mexico City. One, they're our neighbors. Like, we are so lucky as Houstonians, as Texans, to be so close to Mexico City. It, for me, it's, like, scratches my, like, New York fix, it scratches my "I want to go to Paris" fix, but I only have a weekend.

So, Zona Maco is their big art fair, kind of, like their Art Basel for comparison, like, that's the big anchor fair. But then there are all these really cool, interesting fairs that are going on at the same time. Like, there's this one called Material, there's one called ACME that's sort of design-focused.

And then at the same time, all the museums, all the galleries are putting on their very best shows, too. There are tons of great parties. I mean, you can't throw a stone without ending up at a good restaurant in Mexico City. And they're all, kind of, within walking distance of these great, you know, like Roma and Condesa, like, all these beautiful, very green neighborhoods, which is crazy considering the amount of, like, pollution and how large Mexico City is.

But there's this electricity that's in the air, maybe it's the pollution, but you feel like a high, like, as soon as you get there. I mean, as far as art fairs go, like, the overall cost is, like, it's something that students could do. It's also very family-friendly. And the difference it's for one thing, is it, kind of, like, you have all of these fantastic Central and Latin American artists that are showing. So, there's, like, Mexico comes out to show, like, their best in full force. But then you also have, like, your Gagosian. Like you have your top galleries from all the world that they want to have a presence there as well.

And so, you can have New York in the middle of Mexico City, but then you also get this ecosystem that doesn't exist anywhere else. And the two of them, kind of, talking together, like that's always a really interesting conversation. But it's just like it doesn't matter how good the gallery show is here. Like ours are not in these Beaux-Arts buildings from the 19th century that used to be a governor's palace. Like there's no... It's not the white-box gallery. It's just these insanely beautiful structures. And there's room for like serendipity, and you're just walking through, and you happen upon like this insane space, and then there just happens to be like this very, like a cool, like, underground party going on underneath it.

Every single time, it requires very little decision-making to decide that Mexico City is a yes. And there are art fairs in February at Zona Maco.

[31:07]Brian Jackson: February. Okay. Is there something in Houston, an experience that you wish more people knew about, a hidden gem maybe?

[31:13]Alecia Harris: I mean, the Menil campus, right? Wouldn't you agree?

[31:17]Brian Jackson: I agree.

[31:18]Alecia Harris: The fact that it's in the middle of the city and it's an oasis. I mean, you can come to the chapel, obviously, to get away. I keep saying it to, like, all of my friends from business school and the corporate world, like, "Come take a break if you can get away for a day," because we're not good at slowing down and taking those moments. Like I had to teach myself to do it. I literally have to block off the time on my calendar to walk across the street to go to the chapel. But I think that, and we have the Menil, we have the Menil Drawing Center, the Cy Twombly Gallery, all of these things, like, are within walking distance and 10 minutes from downtown. I think that's my hidden gem. And they're all free, and there's ample parking. So, that's something that everyone should be doing.

[32:03]Brian Jackson: And taking advantage of it. We are incredibly fortunate to have that in our backyard.

I think my last question really, like, a call to action. You know, looking at the Rice Business community, looking at alumni, you know, one, I think, getting involved is beneficial because it broadens our thinking and connects us to art and to community. But do you have a call to action for the Rice Business community in a way that we can support?

[32:29]Alecia Harris: I do. Houston is a city that relies overwhelmingly on the largesse of individuals. And we have this robust patron group that's on their way out, and there's this great transfer of wealth that's happening, something $60-plus-trillion. I hope that it would look to us and younger generations as filling that void to come in and support these incredible institutions that we have here. I mean, Houston Grand Opera is the only opera that's consistently running in the black in the country.

Artists that are in New York want to come and perform in Houston; they want to be in our collections. It's all here in our backyard, and we have to support it, or else it won't continue to be. And so, I just I would even be open if people wanted to reach out to me and let me know what it is that maybe stops them from wanting to be involved with the organizations. I do think that there's also a marketing problem with these storied institutions, you know, these younger generations, like, they don't care about having their name on a donor wall, right?

And so, what do you care about? What do you want to hear from your and see from your organizations, hold them accountable so you can take ownership over stewarding them into the next 100 years?

[33:47]Brian Jackson: Yeah, it's building a community legacy. Thank you so much, Alecia. It has been just a supreme pleasure having you on Owl Have You Know today.

[33:55]Alecia Harris: Thank you, Brian. I really appreciate it.

[34:01]Brian Jackson: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Brian Jackson, and Maya Pomroy.

[00:00]Brian Jackson: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.

Today, I'm joined by Kenzel Fallen, Professional MBA Class of 2012, co-founder and CEO of Three Keys Coffee. Before launching one of the nation's most acclaimed coffee roasters, Kenzel built a career in risk management, credit risk, and banking leadership. Today, she and her husband, Tio, lead Three Keys Coffee, a Houston-based company that has been recognized by Food & Wine as the best coffee roaster in Texas, and also a finalist for Global Micro Roaster of the Year.

In this conversation, we'll discuss Kenzel's journey from the corporate world to entrepreneurship, what it takes to build a business around your values, and how coffee, art, and music come together at Three Keys.

Well, hi, Kenzel. Thank you so much for joining me today on Owl Have You Know.

[01:01]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah, thanks for having me.

[01:03]Brian Jackson: Well, you've got such an interesting story, but I felt like it'd be important to start: How did you and your husband, Tio, meet?

[01:10]Kenzel Fallen: Oh. So, we actually met through mutual friends in New York City. I was living in Philadelphia at the time. He was working and living in Houston, and we ended up just coming into contact with each other. I thought it was so impractical to have this long-distance relationship, but fast-forward, we ended up getting engaged long-distance, and he's most of the reason why I ended up enrolling in the Rice MBA program.

[01:39]Brian Jackson: Wow, that's great. So, when you got to Rice, and I mean, this was just a few years back, did you think entrepreneurship would ever be a part of your story?

[01:52]Kenzel Fallen: It's so sweet of you to say just a few years back, considering it was 16, but...

[01:56]Brian Jackson: It's not that long. Come on.

[01:58]Kenzel Fallen: Right. Not at all. Entrepreneurship was not on my radar. Even my story in how I ended up enrolling in business school, and especially at that time, I was actually managing a fundraising program in the university development for Temple University.

And so, I was in Philly, but it wasn't really easy to translate that skill set and background. You know, everything here in Houston was so driven around oil and gas experience or healthcare experience. And I always had an interest in eventually going to business school, but I thought I didn't have enough work experience.

But I decided, just on a whim, to go ahead and just apply to try to see if that's a way that I could get down to Houston. Ended up getting a really strong score on the GMAT and was able to get a full tuition scholarship to Rice. And so, it made it pretty much a no-brainer to make that my decision to go ahead and enroll, even though I only had two years of work experience at the time.

[03:01]Brian Jackson: Well, your career post-Rice took you into risk management, and eventually you were senior leadership in banking, you know, what happened during the program that made this path make sense?

[03:14]Kenzel Fallen: I think for me it was the cohort of people. And by people, I mean my classmates and folks who were in my group, folks who were in other programs. So, not just the full-time program, but, you know, having connections with folks from the professional program, but then also the faculty and the staff.

I'm the type that wants to learn and absorb from as many people as I can. I really think everybody has a very unique story and a lot of interesting perspectives. I'm always trying to collect and gain insight and information. And especially for me, as someone who was on the lower end of work experience, I knew it was very critical that I, you know, connect and make sure that I was trying to build that network positively.

Having a lot of those relationships and understanding about how to advance, how to, you know, put together a quality product and presentation, and understanding, you know, how to conduct analysis, tips and tricks of things, all of that really helped me to just continue to leverage that experience post-MBA.

[04:26]Brian Jackson: Yeah, when they talk about, like, your network is your net worth, I feel like it's the things that you learn from that network, right, that make-

[04:34]Kenzel Fallen: Exactly.

[04:34]Brian Jackson: ... you a better professional.

[04:36]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah, you make a good point because I think sometimes when people hear that, you know, “Your network is your net worth,” it's almost more of a sense of someone can just get you an introduction, or they can get you in a room. And it's not so much about having adjacency to people. I think that's more, that's like social climbing, right?

But when you network, I see that as sharing. I see that as exchanging information and insights. And so, for me, when I think of that phrase, like, network is your net worth, I look at that as enhancing your education, enhancing your perspective, enhancing how deeply you understand the world and society that we live and work in.

And sometimes you do have to rely on a lot of different, you know, experiences and perspectives. For me, that's how that network expands, is through sharing, both receiving and also providing my own insights and perspectives.

[05:27]Brian Jackson: Yeah, and, you know, we were talking about risk management a minute ago. I always think of it, it's synonymous with avoiding risk. You know, did that experience in your career actually make you more comfortable taking calculated risks?

[05:42]Kenzel Fallen: Oh gosh, absolutely. I was having coffee with one of my former managers. So, she's currently a chief risk officer at a bank, and she happened to be in town. And how I had advanced in my career, specifically in risk, was in the enterprise risk management department. And with that, we're looking at all of the different risk categories across the entire bank.

And so, you really get an understanding of how one impact or occurrence in one area ends up having some sort of effect on a completely different part. And I think that having that exposure and experience in risk helped to prepare me so much for being an entrepreneur because that's a lot of what we do, is needing to wear a lot of hats. Again, as a founder and a CEO, needing to know, well, how is one change in one department going to impact another?

And so, I think that having that risk background really helped with that. Also, you know, the risk, it's really uncertainty, right? It's not knowing if something is going to happen or not. But I always like to say risk doesn't always have to be negative. When there's positive outcomes that we're uncertain about, that's opportunities.

And so, you know, the way that I've looked at risk, too, is not always glass half empty, but it, you know, tends to have some moments of glass half full because you want to prepare for the best-case scenarios as well.

[07:13]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, you're entrepreneurial, so you brought in and combined something, I mean, two things that you love, Tio and coffee. But I want to know, when did coffee become more than, you know, I guess a morning or a mid-afternoon routine? Was there, like, a particular experience or a trip that, kind of, changed the way that you think about it?

[07:33]Kenzel Fallen: It's not so much like a smoking gun sort of thing where I can say, "Aha, it was this moment." I think it was just a gradual uncovering of the love of, you know, this seed. A lot of people refer to it as a bean, but coffee's a seed of a fruit.

I think that as my husband and I were becoming more discerning consumers, then that opened us up. It's like, you know, you, kind of, start out with Starbucks being the only thing you really know, right? And then you, kind of, make your way over to more of the craft coffee world and understanding specialty coffee.

Then, with my husband, he took it a step further and then decided that he wanted to try roasting his own coffee at home, where I always say that my craft, in terms of the whole business and everything, it's in the organization side. It's in how we've built and structured the company, how we've, you know, handled growth. You know, with having that background in finance and consulting, you know, I'm just always thinking about, "Okay, well, what are our processes looking like? How can we scale?" And so, that's the craft that I brought to it.

You know, people are always really surprised. Now, I can't make you a latte, and I do not roast the coffee. But I can say that I've been the driving force behind a lot of our company's growth, and that's been the craft and the art and the skill that I've brought to the company.

[08:59]Brian Jackson: When you were talking about, like, as a consumer, you walk the aisles, and of course, you start with your Starbucks. I'll tell you, my cup right now is Folgers. And we're-

[09:08]Kenzel Fallen: Oh, no, we got to change that. How dare you?

[09:10]Brian Jackson: ... we're a quantity family, not a quality family. But, you know, I think it made me think of your literature, and you talk about shopping your values. Could you explain, kind of, what that is and how it relates to Three Keys?

[09:23]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah. So, I think especially with an industry like coffee, where it's just so commoditized, you have so many options, and a lot of people do view it as just this, you know, cheap thing to get them an energy fix, right?

First of all, coffee has a lot of health benefits. There's a lot that the public does not get to know about, you know, the antioxidant properties of coffee and some of that. I think people are averse, maybe to some of the caffeine or some of the jittery feeling that they have, or maybe the only coffee they know is really the dessert variety, which just has, you know, like I said, the fraps, which have a ton of unhealthy whipped cream and sugar. And at that point, you're not drinking coffee. Like I said, that's more of a dessert.

You know, but when you have a very well-sourced, well-roasted, well-prepared cup of coffee, you should be able to just drink it straight, without adding anything to it, and it should actually have some inherent sweetness in it.

But I also think, aside from, you know, being discerning in terms of the flavor and in terms of where it's coming from, it's also important to be discerning, like you said, in terms of the values of whichever company that you are deciding to support. I think that we have a lot of options in the coffee industry, and so all the more reason to be very intentional.

Three Keys Coffee, being named after the valves of the trumpet, it's all about creativity and the influence of music, and we have these curated playlists that pair with each of our coffees. And so, we like to feel like we are fueling creativity, and so that draws a lot of folks from some of those creative spaces to us.

We're also very much proud to be a woman-owned, minority-owned company, and so folks who are seeking out those sorts of values, you know, you have some options there.

And additionally, from a sustainability perspective, like, our roastery is a solar-powered roastery. We've started switching some of our packaging to more either recyclable or compostable or some sort of more environmentally friendly option.

And so, all of those things, you know, whether it's coffee or any other sort of product, I always just encourage people to make sure that you're really understanding, like, who's benefiting from this purchase here? Am I helping a small business or a family-owned business? You know, those are the purchases that always go such a long way.

[12:01]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, it seems like I gather your connection really is to the process and expansion, and Tio's the connection to the coffee and, kind of, beyond there. But I think of this business, and you've got a mechanical engineer, you've got a risk executive. It seems like an unlikely pair for coffee entrepreneurs.

I'm sure you both have different strengths that you brought to this that maybe even you didn't expect.

[12:27]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah, one of the things that I incorporate with my team are personality assessments. It's really important for me to have, like, a great team dynamic. When I'm interviewing candidates, I ask them, you know, to opt in to taking some sort of personality test just to help to gauge where they may or may not fit in, and it's never a deal breaker. It just always helps me to understand how they might interact with others.

And so, obviously, my husband and I took these ourselves. And so, there's two that we really like. A lot of people have heard of the Myers-Briggs. That's one that we like to use, but I like to supplement it with another one called The 5 Voices because that's the one that showed the greatest distinction between my husband and myself.

So, there's these five voices. You have guardian, nurturer, creative, connector, and then pioneer. My husband and I are almost complete opposites. So, he's a creative connector as a primary, and then I'm a guardian nurturer. And so, we kind of meet in the middle with the pioneer because then, on the flip side, his guardian and nurturer are his lowest voices.

And so, what it essentially means, and, you know, there's a lot of these videos that help to support, like, well, what is that? How do those kind of types interact with each other? That the creative connector is coming up with all of these ideas, and then the guardian nurturer is like, "Okay, that's great, but, like, how are we going to do that? How do we make sure that we're, you know, minimizing our cost as we're doing this? How are we, you know, maximizing efficiency? How do we optimize this?"

And apparently that duo makes an extremely great pair when it comes to... And it was almost like they were reading our lives when we were looking at these videos because they were like, "If you're a creative connector and you're trying to, you know, do any sort of venture or start up something," they said, "Get you a guardian." And it's just like, well, that's exactly what he's done.

It reflects in both our personal lives, even in how we parent, but then also in the business. And so, I think we have very complementary views and perspectives that have helped this be something that has worked.

I know a lot of couples that say, like, "There's no way I could work with my spouse." And yeah, we're not one of those. He's still working his day job, so he's not, you know, full-time in the business. I'm the only one who's full-time.

But, you know, when we're just exchanging ideas and things, it tends to be very collaborative and, you know, solutions-driven. And so, yeah, we actually work pretty well together.

[14:59]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, just the idea of starting a business with a partner is enough to scare people away from it. You know, how did you know, like, "Okay, yes, this is the idea. This is what we want to do," and then actually commit to it? Was there, I guess, like a moment where it was like, "Okay, this makes sense"?

[15:15]Kenzel Fallen: Looking back, we were both very passive about it. We didn't think this business would turn into something that either of us could really dedicate full-time to. We always thought this would be a passion project, a side thing, and we will continue to work our jobs and, you know, be on our respective career tracks.

So, we were launching our business at the beginning of COVID, which actually ended up being great timing for us because we launched as an online store. And with a lot of coffee shops closing, people were looking for specialty coffee roasters that could ship beans. So, that allowed us to get put on the map pretty quickly.

Within our first six months in business, we had shipped to all 50 states. And then within our first year, Trader Joe's had reached out about a regional coffee program they were launching to highlight roasters. And so, we ended up getting in 43 locations, and five and a half years later, we're still in all of those Trader Joe's locations. It's been a great partnership for us.

But I say that to say the business, kind of, grew a bit faster than we expected it to. I was also working a very demanding job in my risk role because around 2020 was also when it was announced that my bank, which was IBERIABANK, was going to be merging with First Horizon Bank, and I had one of the roles as a co-lead for the integration of all of the risk departments.

So, taking what First Horizon did, taking what IBERIA did, and figuring out, okay, what path forward are we going to do, and bringing together systems and bringing together processes. And it was a lot because I'm at home. I had two little kids at the time because schools are closed.

And so, once I was able to get, you know, everything in my world integrated, it was still a little bit of time to be able to get a severance package. And so, I volunteered myself for that because I was able to get a year's salary, which is really great. So, I said, "Okay, I'll do this for a little bit and then just come back."

And then one of my former colleagues caught wind that, "Oh, you're available. You're not working. Can you, like, create a consulting company and then come and start consulting with us?"

And I don't know, maybe being risk-averse, you know, even though I had this nice severance package, this year, you know, and I had a business that was starting to grow, I was like, "Okay, yeah, because then I can continue working, and this is a really great, you know, big safety net I can continue establishing."

But what I realized is that I was always just, like, halfway in, halfway out. And I felt like I wasn't being my full, greatest present self to either side. I was, like, halfway focusing on the business, halfway consulting, and trying to do things part-time. And so, yeah, about four or five years into starting the company, did I finally decide to walk away and just completely focus on Three Keys Coffee.

[18:07]Brian Jackson: That's incredible. How did you build the supply chain and actually get to the product?

[18:14]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah. So, much in the supply chain, especially with green coffee, there's a lot with relationships. And so, as I was saying earlier, around, you know, network and just being a good person to people, that goes such a long way in terms of the supply chain for probably any industry, but I can especially say that it's relevant for coffee.

I mean, you also have this being a global industry. Coffee is something that has to be imported. Aside from extremely tiny quantities in Hawaii and Puerto Rico, we do not grow coffee domestically.

So, within the U.S., it being the second most consumed beverage behind water, that means that we are very reliant on the import. And to have all of the roasters here, having those really great, strong relationships that can help to bring some of those good beans over stateside.

So, it's interesting because coffee, the tariffs, and all of that, you know, had such a big impact on coffee that I think a lot of folks, didn't realize, you know, again, how we cannot produce this domestically, and so we have to bring these in from outside.

And so, we definitely had to change some aspects of our program temporarily, right, because Brazil had, like, a 50% tariff, and we were relying on a lot of Brazil imports. And so, yeah, had to make some different changes along the way due to factors like that.

So, a lot more that goes into things like bringing in coffee and maintaining your supply chain. Like I said, as an entrepreneur, we wear so many hats. And that's one of the things I wasn't expecting to have learned along this way, but yeah, I'm in it.

[20:06]Brian Jackson: So, what does that look like when you're building the relationships, trying to find out who you're going to source beans from? Like, are there moments where you, kind of, go, "Actually, hey, our values as a company, we want to do it, you know, a different way, and it's going to cost more, but this is how we manage it"? I mean...

[20:23]Kenzel Fallen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So, we have a lot of products. And, you know, we have our staples of things that might be available at grocery stores. But then we also have places for, you know, some things that we really want to highlight, some things that we want to have shine or tell a story around, or maybe that we've actually personally met the producer or the farmer.

My husband's been able to visit some coffee farms in Guatemala. COVID threw a lot of things off. We're very much due for an origin trip. But what has happened is we get folks just coming and seeing us at our roastery, if, you know, they've heard about Three Keys, they want us to try out their coffee.

So, we've had producers come in from Colombia and El Salvador and Brazil and Nicaragua, stopping by our roastery. And so, that really helps to tell a very personal story because we can say, we know where this is coming from. We've heard the story about the family that this is coming from. We've heard the story about the impact that this is having on the families that we're purchasing these from. And so, it's just really great to be able to highlight that and share those stories with our consumers.

[21:35]Brian Jackson: Yeah. I think we, kind of, talked about Three Keys. It's three keys on a trumpet. And so, you know, it's about coffee, art, and music, and jazz. So, what about jazz feels like the right inspiration for the company?

[21:50]Kenzel Fallen: Oh, yeah. So, jazz is unique in that it's, you know, one of the few art forms, first of all, that's created here in America. The birthplace of jazz is New Orleans, and we've actually had one of our coffees that was named in honor of that square, Congo Square, which is believed to be the birthplace of jazz.

But there's also this nature of how unstructured, but yet sophisticated that jazz can feel. You know, you have a lot of the improv. You have a lot of this sense of being lost in the moment that you can gather from the artist as they are actually playing the music, and then even sometimes as a listener when you're, you know, hearing some of these just solos.

And so, that idea of, you know, being lost and this moment of having full feeling around what you're doing, that's something that we really wanted to highlight. Also, from even just a, you know, kind of practical standpoint, jazz was actually one of the genres that helped with the advent of, you know, vinyl albums. You know, people wanted to be able to take that live music experience but be able to enjoy it and celebrate it at home. Prior to some of the early jazz recordings, there really was just, like, classical music that had actually been put on vinyl.

And so, jazz allowed people to bring home that concert and that live band experience, and that's the same thing that we, kind of, wanted to do with coffee. It's like, "Hey, you don't have to go to a shop. You get the right beans. You understand how to make them. You can have that cafe experience at home."

And so, kind of, having drawing that parallel as well in the way that we wanted to create coffee and share coffee with people, there's a lot to explore with the overlap. We have this thing, you know, in the specialty coffee industry. There's something called the flavor wheel, and it tells you all of these different types of flavor notes you might get from a cup of coffee.

And so, we wanted to, quote-unquote, "reinvent the wheel" and stylize it as a vinyl album, but we used musical descriptors. You know, we wanted that to be a fun way to try to describe coffee. And we always say it's no coincidence that, you know, you describe both music and coffee using notes, right? So, having some of those music terms to help with describing what you're tasting has been a fun thing for us to explore.

[24:24]Brian Jackson: Well, I guess on the wheel, are you Ella, Louis, Dizzy, Miles? Where do you fall?

[24:29]Kenzel Fallen: Oh, I'm very much in, like, a moody Nina Simone, you know, Miles Davis sort of... I'll say before he got into his free jazz era and all of that. And you'll see in our wheel, it, kind of, goes around in that space. But I enjoy tasting all around the wheel, all different kinds of coffees.

You know, you can have very wildly different tastes that you get from one cup to the next, just depending on origin, and processing, and all types of different factors.

[25:03]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, Food & Wine named Three Keys the best coffee roaster in Texas. I guess what did that recognition mean to you personally, professionally?

[25:13]Kenzel Fallen: It was huge because, you know, a lot of recognitions that people get, it's because they've applied. Food & Wine Magazine, there was no application. We didn't know we were on their radar. Nothing.

I remember getting an email that was like, "Hey, we're thinking about, you know, highlighting different coffee shops. Can you send us some pictures of your shop?" And it was from Food & Wine, but I'm just thinking, "Oh, they're just going to highlight a bunch of folks."

I had no clue. I truly had no clue until the announcement was made that we were named. They had us on the list as the best in Texas. We were just, I mean, mind-blown.

And so, I think that's, for one, why it really felt so huge for us because we realized, oh wow, yeah, people are noticing. It's not like we put ourselves in front of them and said, "Hey, consider us for this thing and come and review us," and then, you know, put our best foot forward for whatever random day that one of their correspondents decided to come and visit us.

We just were being our regular, normal selves, had no idea that we were potentially entertaining someone from Food & Wine, and apparently, it was enough to have made that much of an impression on them.

And we had another similar one come about this year, which was the World's 100 Best Coffee Shops. Same sort of situation. Didn't know we were on their radar. They have these secret shoppers, so to speak, or judges who go around to shops and nominate. And yeah, we were named one of the top 100 in North America, South America, and the Caribbean. That was another huge honor.

I love the ones where it's a total surprise. We have no inkling that they're coming our way because it really does mean that we're making a positive impression on our community.

[27:01]Brian Jackson: Well, that is fabulous, and a huge congratulations.

[27:05]Kenzel Fallen: Thank you.

[27:06]Brian Jackson: You know, I guess one thing I'm thinking about, if I'm sitting in a coffee shop tomorrow, how should I just think about describing that cup of coffee? And I ask you because you're an Evolved Q Arabica Grader, which is a sommelier for coffee.

[27:20]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah, but, you know, I consider myself so much of a rebel in that because what I always say is the best type of coffee is the one that you're going to enjoy, the one that you are going to drink. It reminds me back in my consulting days when, you know, we would get the, "Well, what's the best tool for this?" Or, "What's the best solution?" Or, "What's the best system?" Or, "What's the best, you know, application for X, Y, Z?" And it's like, "The one that you're going to use."

And it's funny that I'm finding myself saying that same thing even in coffee because, you know, I think I'm not wanting to judge anyone's preferences. And I think that's what we want to, in our program, offer, a range of tastes. You know, the traditional specialty coffee crowd sometimes turns their nose up at dark roast. We don't, because we understand that there are some folks that that is their preference.

And so, yeah, I always say the best cup is the one that you are going to happily drink, and it's going to bring you joy. So, if it brings you joy, if it makes you smile, then that's all that matters. And if it doesn't, then, you know, come over to Three Keys because we will help to make it right. Our baristas will find you your match. I'm sure of it.

[28:44]Brian Jackson: So, I guess the question is, like, how do you describe coffee? Like, I know wine, I can, kind of, high-level do it enough to sound, kind of, interesting at a work dinner, but if I meet someone for coffee, like, what adjectives, what words do you use?

[28:58]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah. You know, it can be very similar because, with coffee being the seed of a fruit, you get sometimes a lot of the similar notes that you might pick up on in some wines. Take, for example, you're going to have some coffees that are pretty fermented, and they do give you a winey sort of aspect to them.

I always like to, kind of, focus on things like acidity. Like, does it feel very bright? Are you detecting some sort of, kind of, like, citric aspect to it? Because some people like that, and then some people don't.

So, detecting, you know, how much of an acidic factor are you picking up on? Like, what's the mouthfeel? Is it more of, like, a creamy, or is it, like, a, you know, kind of, feeling drying? You know, you can also pick up on what's the sweetness level in there. Does it taste pretty sweet, or are you not really picking up on some of those sweet notes?

But I think with most run-of-the-mill coffees, you're going to pick up on the chocolate. You're going to pick up on, like, nutty sort of flavors. Those are things that typically are characteristic in there.

But if you, you know, detect some berries and, you know, other sorts of fruits and things, you know, feel free to just explore and just think about where your brain's telling you you're having this association with. I mean, that's pretty much the same thing that a lot of folks do with wine. It's like, okay, well, what's that association that you, you know, get when you're trying it?

[30:24]Brian Jackson: Okay, so to be adventurous. I think I'm one of those who's, kind of, the same order, same thing. I recently switched from a latte to a flat white, but, you know.

[30:33]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah. You're making it there. You're making it there. You're reducing the amount of milk in your coffee, and that's what's...

[30:39]Brian Jackson: That's what I'm trying to do.

[30:41]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah.

[30:42]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, after being involved in the coffee world, you know, is there something about coffee that has basically changed the way that you think of your morning cup?

[30:51]Kenzel Fallen: I think for me, it's all around the impact to people in just a typical everyday cup. You know, as we're all drinking our cups of coffee, knowing how many hands it took to get to your kitchen and into that cup. You know, starting with there was a farmer who could have been a, you know, third-, fourth-, fifth-generation farmer on land where that's all his or her family has known to do.

And it could be their entire life's work and be the thing that sustains them. And if they get a frost or the crop doesn't go well, that family is struggling and not having, you know, a good season. Just knowing how dependent some families are on that.

And then you take that, then it goes to some sort of mill where it gets processed. And then you have it transported, where it gets put on these, you know, big shipping containers. And, you know, Houston's one of the ports where some coffee comes into. Not a whole lot, but, you know, it comes over stateside. We have it in various facilities.

And then a lot of times there's some roaster who, you know, a lot of it may be just like a family-owned roastery such as mine that's picking up those sacks of beans, experimenting with, you know, roasting them in different ways, and then putting them into a bag. And if you do have a barista that's, you know, working to prepare that, you know, baristas, there's an art, and there's a skill behind extracting the best flavor notes out of coffee.

You know, you can have an incredible coffee that, from the farm to the bag, is just perfect, and then if the barista doesn't know exactly what to do with it, you could walk away thinking it's crap. That is the worst coffee.

And I've also seen baristas completely elevate a cup of coffee or, you know, some beans that maybe hadn't received the best treatment along the way, right? And so, yeah, it's just, kind of, knowing the impact that it's having on all of those folks. You know, I was reflecting fairly recently on what keeps me going with this, and I know a lot of it is the impact that I've seen on my employees.

We are funding people's life work and families, and just knowing that type of, like, impact that we're having to our people and our community. We're also providing benefits to our team. And so, knowing that my company is doing the right thing by its people and helping to better the lives of folks is just something that makes me feel so good and just continues to drive me with this business.

[33:40]Brian Jackson: And what a wonderful purpose. What's your go-to order at Three Keys?

[33:45]Kenzel Fallen: Oh, gosh. It always switches. When I'm there, I like to just try our standard drip, right? Because I'm not huge on adding, like, like I said, a lot of the extras. But that's usually a way to just gauge, okay, for the typical coffee consumer who probably is just going towards, like, "Let me just get a drip coffee," I want to make sure that that's tasting top-notch, right?

But if I'm going to another coffee shop, I'll say the way I judge the other coffee shops is to order a cortado. It's, well, next to a macchiato, is the one with the least amount of milk. And by macchiato, I want to clarify, the traditional macchiato, which is like a very small, not the Starbucks macchiato, which is the huge, you know, again, all the sugars and whipped cream.

But I think a cortado is one of the drinks that is the hardest to accomplish. And so, when it's done really well, then I know, okay, this shop's doing pretty good. And it's also one where I can still taste the espresso, the brew method there, and really, kind of, understand, like, how that bean tastes. So, yeah, I always try to order a cortado when I go out to other shops.

[34:59]Brian Jackson: Okay. That's great. Then that's how I'll taste-test and know I'm at the right spot.

[35:03]Kenzel Fallen: Yep.

[35:05]Brian Jackson: What is the next big step for Three Keys?

[35:08]Kenzel Fallen: So, we have two more locations we are working on, one in Missouri City. We have another that's going to be in Sunnyside. But we are also feeling a very strong push to be a more positive force in the community, potentially outside of, you know, coffee directly. And so, we're working on a few ideas and collaborations, but, you know, coffee may be just the beginning. So, we'll see.

[35:40]Brian Jackson: So, I guess looking back and, you know, what a really wonderful story, but your Rice MBA, and you think back to the experience you had, you look at being an entrepreneur, you know, is there anything from that experience that you lean on and you go, "Okay, wow, this has really helped get me here"?

[35:56]Kenzel Fallen: Here's one example. I remember in my marketing class, it was around pricing philosophies and around the perception of discounts and how, when you have discounts, you're devaluing how the consumer's, you know, viewing that product, and they're so much less likely to purchase it again, especially not at full price. Because now, if you've gone from $20 and, you know, giving it to them half off for $10, then now their max is they're thinking, "This thing is only worth $10. I'm not going to ever pay more than this."

And we have taken that stance with our company of never discounting our products. We will provide, you know, a complimentary promotion such as, well, maybe you can get free shipping, or maybe you can get a free gift. I may do an add-on or something, but we will never discount our products. And that's something that I've seen a lot of other peer companies doing, and then they're, kind of, chasing themselves, in a sense, to the bottom because then it's like, well, I got to keep discounting to get more customers, and then before you know it, now your product's not worth at all what you started out communicating that it was.

But we priced our products very fairly so that we would never feel that pressure. It's like, "Hey, the price is the price." And that is something that squarely came from my Rice MBA program that I do not think that I would have had that perspective had it not been for that marketing class. And so, those are things that, you know, just, kind of, loop in my head that I've carried with me even, yeah, like 16 years later.

[37:30]Brian Jackson: Yeah, no kidding. Well, I mean, as recently at the, what, alumni reunion, you were awarded Rice Business' Distinguished Alumni Award.

[37:39]Kenzel Fallen: Such an honor. It was incredible. But yes.

[37:42]Brian Jackson: I wanted to know, what did that recognition from the community mean to you?

[37:45]Kenzel Fallen: Oh, I think, like I said, I was a bit on the younger end when I started the Rice MBA program, and being there, I think I had the sense of, well, I've got to do, like, investment banking or consulting in order to be considered, quote-unquote, "successful."

And I think that having that honor redefined that view for me. You know, you don't have to always go with these glamorous, high-profile sorts of tracks, that you can have impact and meaning and purpose in a lot of different ways.

And so, that affirmed for me that you didn't, like, waste your degree on, you know, a coffee job, right? It's like, no, it's so much more than that. It's changing the lives of people. It's, you know, being a positive impact in my community. It's representing Houston and everything that we're able to create here on a global scale.

You know, like, there's a lot that I can now look to that my little coffee business has done. And I think that's something that, you know, knowing that Rice also views that as worthy of recognition and that, you know, is essentially proud of that, I think that it goes a long way. I think I am doing work with meaning and impact, and I think that that's what Rice recognizes, and I appreciate that.

[39:09]Brian Jackson: Yeah. So, if there was someone, assuming from the Rice Business community, listening today, and they've got a successful corporate career, but they have that pull towards entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them?

[39:22]Kenzel Fallen: You know, I am still very much this risk-minded, risk-averse person, so I always tell people, "Do not hurry up to quit your day job and start a new thing. Have the safety net. Do it thoughtfully."

But I think that the biggest takeaway is to define what the purpose, and the mission, and the vision is that you want to have, and to know that if you're still committed to doing that, you know, all of the other stuff will follow, like the accolades and, you know, the customers, and, you know, we'll all find our people.

But it's really important to just stay so dedicated to what our intention is because customers pick up on the phoniness, and they're attracted to intentionality, and they're attracted to authenticity.

And so, you know, anyone who, kind of, has that pull, if they're thinking, like, "Oh, this'll be a great moneymaker. This'll be a great... You know, this business idea will, like, just exponentially grow," I'm going to be, kind of, shaking my head and looking like, you know, "You might want to rethink this one a little bit more," because I do think that our motivations are just so key and so important in what we're doing.

And so, yeah, having a very pure intention and a “why” behind what you're doing, I think, is just going to be critical before undertaking any sort of venture. But once you do that, like I said, just staying true to that, I think people will pick up on it and be drawn to the things that matter to them.

And so, yeah, it's, kind of, a tough one. You know, I've had people come up to me who maybe were in traditional consulting roles, and I think that they view coffee shops as being, like, the super profitable way out. And I've straight-up told people in consulting, I'm like, "This is not going to replace your consulting salary." It's not.

But if you're in it for something beyond that, if you want to reclaim some of your time, if you want to, you know, have more of a presence with your family, you know, all of those other kind of intangibles that have huge value, that's what I've seen as the biggest impact in being, like, a business owner to my life.

[41:41]Brian Jackson: Fantastic. Well, I do want to thank you so much for joining me on Owl Have You Know. It's been just such a pleasure.

[41:48]Kenzel Fallen: Yeah, likewise. It was such a pleasure talking coffee, and business, and all of those with you.

[41:56]Brian Jackson: And a little bit of jazz.

[41:57]Kenzel Fallen: And a little bit of jazz, yep. Thank you.

[42:03]Brian Jackson: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Brian Jackson, and Maya Pomroy.