In startup accelerator programs, gender diversity alone doesn't engage investors — what matters more is that founder and mentor teams align in their gender composition.
In startup accelerator programs, gender diversity alone doesn't engage investors — what matters more is that founder and mentor teams align in their gender composition.
Based on research by Alessandro Piazza (Rice Business) and Dana Kanze (Georgetown)
Key takeaways:
Gender diversity on founder or mentor teams alone does not engage investors.
Rather, investors engage more when founder and mentor teams share the same gender composition — whether they are gender-diverse or male-dominated.
The strongest investor engagement occurs when gender-diverse founder teams are paired with gender-diverse mentor teams.
For early-stage startups, gaining access to investors is a persistent challenge — one that accelerators like Techstars tackle by pairing founders with mentor teams who can help shape and advance fundraising efforts.
But even within accelerator programs, investor attention remains limited and competitive. To stand out and gain serious attention, startups rely on cues that signal quality and innovation. Increasingly, gender diversity on founder teams has been treated as one such cue, often taken as a signal of stronger decision-making and broader perspectives.
That assumption, however, treats gender diversity as a signal investors read from founder teams alone. It assumes that investor judgments are formed by looking at who is on the founding team, independent of the broader relationships surrounding it.
In accelerator programs, investor engagement is mediated through founder-mentor relationships, which raises a different question: Do cues like gender diversity operate the same way when investor attention depends on interactions between two different teams?
In other words, if mentors shape investor relationships, gender diversity on founder teams alone may not carry the same weight.
New research tests this question. Co-authored by Alessandro Piazza of Rice Business and Dana Kanze of Georgetown, the study analyzes data from 984 startups that participated in Techstars accelerator programs worldwide. By combining investor data with interviews, the researchers examine how gender diversity shapes investor engagement when founders and mentors work as paired teams rather than in isolation.
Published in Organization Science, the paper finds that gender diversity, on its own, does not enhance investor engagement. Instead, the research shows investor engagement improves when founder and mentor teams are aligned in their gender composition — meaning both teams are either gender-diverse or male-dominated. When gender diversity appears on only one side of the founder-mentor relationship, the investor advantage disappears.
“A common assumption is that diversity on its own should help teams stand out,” Piazza says. “What we find instead is that diversity matters in context. When founder and mentor teams are aligned, mentorship works better — and that translates into more investor interest and funding success down the line.”
That assumption did not come out of nowhere. Much of this expectation about diversity is rooted in what researchers call a “threshold” view of gender diversity. Decades of organizational research suggest that once teams reach a critical mass of representation, diversity becomes substantive rather than symbolic, improving decision-making in complex environments.
From there, it becomes easy to assume that diverse teams are not only stronger internally, but also more attractive externally. In accelerator settings, at least, Piazza and Kanze show that this assumption does not hold. Simply reaching a commonly cited diversity threshold on a founder team or mentor team does not, on its own, lead to greater investor engagement.
Investor engagement improves when founder and mentor teams are aligned in their gender composition — meaning both teams are either gender-diverse or male-dominated.
Instead, investor interest increases only when founder and mentor teams are aligned in their gender composition. Whether teams are gender-diverse or male-dominated, alignment between the two sides of the relationship is associated with higher investor engagement.
The strongest effects appear when gender-diverse founder teams are paired with gender-diverse mentor teams. “When gender-diverse teams are aligned, they seem better positioned to realize the benefits of diversity,” Piazza says. “Together, they can draw on broader perspectives and networks without the frictions that tend to surface when founders and mentors are mismatched in terms of gender composition.”
The advantage, Piazza notes, is not that investors observe or reward alignment directly, but that alignment improves how mentorship works in practice, influencing investor engagement later on.
Notably, the study focuses on investor engagement rather than funding outcomes — a distinction that matters, since attention and conversations do not always translate directly into capital.
Even so, the findings open several avenues for future research. Because the analysis centers on accelerator programs, an open question is whether similar alignment effects appear in other settings where internal teams work closely with external partners, such as advisory boards, consultants or strategic alliances. The study also focuses on gender composition at the team level, pointing to future work that could examine how other dimensions of identity or expertise shape dynamics between teams under resource constraints.
More broadly, the study suggests that research on diversity may benefit from looking beyond individual teams to the relationships that shape how work actually gets done — particularly in settings where access to resources depends on coordination and sustained interaction.
In startup accelerator programs, gender diversity alone doesn't engage investors — what matters more is that founder and mentor teams align in their gender composition.
Professor Kerry Back received the 2025 Financial Management Association’s Innovation in Teaching Award. We sat down with him to talk about how AI is changing finance — and the way we teach it.
The Rice MBA spring boarded David into a career in investment banking with a special focus on agriculture and food. Now he's applying his industry expertise to his own investment banking firm.
Owl Have You Know
Season 5, Episode 25
Not every job will feel like the perfect fit, but for David Verbitsky ’10, every new position is an important stepping stone in your career, and an opportunity to learn and grow.
When David wanted to pivot his career from engineering to finance, the path led him straight to an MBA at Rice Business. His experience at Rice spring boarded him into a career in investment banking with a special focus on agriculture and food. Over the past 15 years, he’s worked as the global head of agriculture and nutrition investment banking at Goldman Sachs, as the global head of AgTech and sustainable food investment banking at Nomura Greentech, and as a member of the global chemicals and agriculture investment banking team at Barclays.
Now, David is applying all of his industry expertise to his own investment banking firm, Verbitsky Capital. In this episode, he chats with co-host Maya Pomroy ’22 about how Rice Business prepared him for a successful career in finance, what he learned through every job change and where he thinks innovation in the agriculture sector is heading next.
[00:00]Maya Pomroy: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.
On today’s episode of Owl Have You Know, we talk with David Verbitsky, the president and managing director of Verbitsky Capital, a boutique investment banking firm providing financial advice and guidance to companies driving innovation in agriculture and food. We explore his pivot from engineering to finance, what motivated him to pursue an MBA at Rice Business and how some things which seem like incredible opportunities weren’t the right fit and were actually guiding him to find his true purpose.
Today, we are joined by David Verbitsky, Full Time MBA from the Class of 2010.
Welcome, David.
[00:52]David Verbitsky: Thanks for having me.
[00:54]Maya Pomroy: Well, we're thrilled to have you. You are the president and managing director of Verbitsky Capital. You have 15 years of investment banking and entrepreneurial experience with a specific focus on agriculture and the food sector. However, that is not how you started. On the surface, it looks like you do not have a linear pathway in terms of your professional career. But if you dig a little bit deeper, you see that there are all of these different points that have led you to where you are today. But you actually started with a bachelor of science in chemical engineering from Columbia.
[01:31]David Verbitsky: Yeah. And I started off as an engineer. And I thought that would be an interesting career, and I learned a lot out of it. It was a great experience. And my biggest takeaways out of that was I definitely do not want to be an engineer for my career. But it was a great introduction to an industry and to just understanding, I think, the world, kind of, at large.
So, I did a lot of work in both this actual chemical industry, but more overall in oil and gas. And so, that was the real first industry that I worked in and understood and got to understand. Okay. Here are all the different levers you can pull, and all of the different people involved. And so, that was a great learning experience. And it also got me interested in the sector. And I think that was more of my launchpad than the actual engineering job itself and the functions around it.
[02:29]Maya Pomroy: Did you grow up in a home with engineers, by chance?
[02:33]David Verbitsky: I did. Yes. My mom was, my sister was, her husband was, my aunt, and of almost everyone in my family except my dad, who is a professional musician.
[02:44]Maya Pomroy: Oh, wow.
[02:45]David Verbitsky: So, he was kind of the lone wolf, very different, but more or less kind of, yeah. Everyone else in my family went the engineering route, so it was, you know, it was an easy path to take. And because it was very oil and gas focused, right, I was spending a lot of time in Houston, seeing a lot of clients in there that we were working with. And so, that provided part of the intro to Rice. I was very aware of the university and everything that it stood for.
Not great, it was, but then I had more exposure through that. And because of that, focus on oil and gas, that, kind of, led me to Rice, saying, like, ″Okay, who has the biggest network, and who is probably the most connected into that sector of all?" And so, that's why I ended up going to business school, to change out of that and change careers, but also because of the affiliation, connection with the broader oil and gas industry.
[03:32]Maya Pomroy: So, Rice… I mean, you really found the best place you possibly could, because Rice is number one for entrepreneurship and number three in finance, which is what you were drawn to. So, you didn't grow up in Houston, right? So, then you came here for work.
[03:48]David Verbitsky: Yes.
[03:49]Maya Pomroy: And so, what was your first exposure to Rice? Do you remember?
[03:53]David Verbitsky: I'm pretty sure I went and saw the campus, and I've seen it probably in earlier years. I don't remember that too specifically, right? I think the real first experience was when I actually moved down to go to business school and start. And so, moved down there. I saw my apartment and really just coming for orientation or first day of class, meeting all the other students, the professors, everyone else involved with the program. And so, seeing that, and, kind of, really being thrown right into the mix, and it was fun.
I think that's probably the best way to put it. It was like, it's interesting, it's fun, right? You're starting graduate school, but business school is a lot more than just pure academic skills, right? A lot of soft skills that you're learning. So, it was a great two years, and, you know, I think a very good initial kind of first step on the way to changing careers, and learning things that I didn't necessarily learn in undergrad.
[04:53]Maya Pomroy: Right. So, what drew you to finance and investment banking? Was it something specific, or was it just something that you were curious about? I mean, I didn't want to be an engineer either. I've got a bunch of engineers in my family. I'm like, ″Nope. I think you probably picked me up off the side of the road, because I'm clearly, I don't have that same DNA." But what drew you to finance?
[05:12]David Verbitsky: Yes, so you have this analytical, quantitative thinking that you have in engineering or really any STEM sort of profession or education, right? So, that's very similar to finance. And so, saw that connection and that parallel. Then, when I entered business school, when I was applying, I was always thinking I would make that move and transition into finance. What role and what capacity? I didn't know. I didn't know before going and starting school. I really, honestly, was not thinking about investment banking when I was applying or starting business school.
And my thoughts at the time were, ″Okay, I see all these new funds that are oil and gas focused that are starting up,″ and this looks like, ″Okay, there could be a lot of opportunity here." And this was, so this would've been…
[06:02]Maya Pomroy: 2008?
[06:03]David Verbitsky: Yeah, so I started in 2008, right? And if you look at like 2006, 2007, 2008 leading up to it, you had a run-up in commodity prices. You had, you exited basically almost a 10-year trough and really bad period in the oil and gas sector. And so, this was pre-fracking, pre-natural gas, but all of a sudden, oil prices really went up.
And so, you had this, ″Okay, investment focus on the sector." And so, I thought, ″Okay, I'd love to do that. Hopefully, that could be something that I could transition to." And a lot of those funds were based in Houston, and not all of them, but a lot of them. And so, then we start, it's 2008, global financial crisis. All these things are happening. It was a great time to be in business school, that's for sure, but a turbulent time in the job market.
So, a lot of those opportunities that I was thinking about really, I think, dried up, and most of them, I think, went away, and didn't really last through the financial crisis, these kind of sector-specific, commodity-focused funds. And I was looking around, and it's a recruiting machine, right? Investment banking, consulting, you know, the two biggest recruiting machines in business school. And so, I went, and I tried it, and was looking to just learn more about it. I had a lot of exposure to it already. I mean, I went to Columbia. I had the same machine there for undergrads, had plenty of friends who went into banking.
I was not interested at that time. Now I started to become interested, and so I just went into that process. And I think there is a competitiveness around it. You know, you're looking out, you know, what kind of is this the quote-unquote kind of best job you can get out of school? But then once you actually spend time in there and understand the job better, and this is once you've had the job, too, but even when you're recruiting, is, yes, it's finance, and then you're dealing with numbers and things like that, but it's highly strategic, [crosstalk 00:07:31].
[07:56]Maya Pomroy: And psychological as well?
[07:58]David Verbitsky: Yes. It's psychological, it's strategic, you have to be a very critical thinker. And as you progress through the career, and what I've really enjoyed is it becomes much more about communication and presentation. And so, you're presenting to clients constantly. Every single time you speak to anyone, you're presenting to them.
And so, that piece of it I see as like, those are the three fundamentals that really have me interested in why I continue to be in this career, right? And I saw bits and pieces of that when I was recruiting. You know, you clearly don't know where you're going to be, what it's going to lead to, but that's what first drew me to it. And did all the recruiting machine during that first semester when I was at Rice, and then got my summer internship at Barclays that first summer, [crosstalk 00:08:44].
[08:44]Maya Pomroy: How was that? Was that fun?
[08:46]David Verbitsky: It was. That was very fun. And it was summer of '09. That was the beginning of the change, I think, in banking culture from pre-crisis, when I think it was a very kind of work hard, play hard type of culture, to changing and getting a bit softer post-crisis there.
[09:02]Maya Pomroy: And also, lots of regulation.
[09:04]David Verbitsky: Yes. Lots of regulations came in. Yes, that's for sure. I got to do a few different things that summer, did some oil and gas work. That was a… I think you're so pumped up and psyched for it that you're willing to do whatever it takes. And so, I know just from pure effort alone, I got a good reputation during that summer, and so got the full-time offer.
[09:29]Maya Pomroy: So, how did you get interested in agriculture? What led you to really be focused on investing in agriculture, and the food chain, and those sorts of things?
[09:36]David Verbitsky: So, that was a very natural progression. So, that was started off in natural resources, did some oil and gas. There was a chemicals group in that team. I could speak the language, which was a very helpful first step beyond everyone else. Even though you're doing banking, it's all the same work, but you could actually understand what these companies are doing. And so, they very quickly, when I started, they had me go to the chemicals team, so I started doing that. And I liked the team, I liked the people.
So, I was like, ″Sure, why not?" Then, within chemicals, some of the ag companies were covered in chemicals traditionally. So, a lot of the input companies, so like Monsanto and Dow and DuPont and companies like that were traditionally covered…
[10:24]Maya Pomroy: Yeah. We all know Monsanto, I think.
[10:27]David Verbitsky: Exactly. So, I think, hopefully, people know those big names, you know, and lots of other names, too. But so, they were covered within chemicals, and this was really just happenstance that I started to work on a bunch of transactions that were all agriculture-focused. And this is when I was an associate at Barclays. And so, started doing them, and then there was a bit more activity coming through from the agriculture side. And so, whenever one came down, they'd always put me on it.
And so, then I became, within the team, they're like, ″Yeah, he's chemicals, but like if there's an ag deal, let's put him on it." So, I was like, ″Okay, sounds good. Part of a broader perspective and experience." Then the big change was when I went to Goldman Sachs. They were interviewing for… So, I moved there when I was a VP, and it was specifically to just do agriculture. So, they had a group head there who had a view, and he wanted all of his VPs to be very specialized in each sub-sector.
[11:31]Maya Pomroy: Competitive advantage, right?
[11:33]David Verbitsky: Yeah, a competitive advantage. And the way that they're like, ″Look, the senior bankers are covering clients, and they can cover clients from across different sectors, but we really need the knowledge base of like, who are these companies? What do they do? Who are their competitors? You know, who are the right comps, the transactions to look at? And we want that to be at the VP level of just an expertise." So, I really never was thinking of going into agriculture. It was never my plan, or goal, or anything like that, but I thought this seems like a good opportunity.
I get to become truly the sector expert where the senior bankers are all going to have to come to me, and we will work together to cover clients because I'll know the clients and the sectors, but they clearly have the expertise of what it actually means to be a real banker, right? So, it was in my five years when I was at Goldman where, I think, I learned the most and really got that transition from being a junior, mid-level banker to becoming a senior banker, because I got more and more responsibility over time, sort of, covering clients directly, and having sole responsibility for them, and really became, just, that's my industry focus.
Very quickly, I came to really enjoy it and grow passionate about the sector. Because it truly, like I did a number of transactions and I knew it, and I was like, ″Okay, I know some of this stuff here, but like when it's the only sector you cover, you better enjoy it, because then why are you doing it? And you got to find another role." So, I thought it was super interesting, right? Everything's connected to food, and you touch this three times a day, every day. And so, you can see those connections, and so you got to just be able to make it tangible and personal for yourself.
And so, I was quickly able to do that and make it interesting. And so, because of that, I was really thriving in it. And I thought it was a great career track and move. And then on top of that, my first three years when I was at Goldman, the sector underwent a phenomenal consolidation period from an M&A perspective. So, from a career perspective, it was great. Got to work on every big deal in the sector, right?
You have the Goldman name, you're working with all these senior bankers, and so every large deal we're on, got this great experience and stuff that I still rely on today and think about all the things I've learned throughout that time. So, it was, it was a fantastic time and just kind of right place, right time. And then it's a cyclical industry thing, much like oil and gas, or any other commodity-driven business. Three years, phenomenal. And then that was the boom, and then there was the bust.
So, then my last two years when I was there, there was just nothing happening, like very little activity in the sector. And there is just no transactions, and you're then looking around, and it's tough. It's tough from a banking perspective, especially when you're at a big platform like that that's used to just constant activity and deal flow.
So, I was looking around and saying, ″Okay, well, do I need to make a move and start broadening it out, covering different industries if I want to stay in banking, or do I double down on this sector, the sector that I came to really, really enjoy and start to build these deep relationships with?" And so, what I noticed was this was… So, starting in probably 2017, 2018, especially 2019, was all of a sudden you start to see this big increase in venture capital funding driven by tech…
[15:10]Maya Pomroy: Lots of money in VC at that time.
[15:12]David Verbitsky: Right. Lots and lots of money, right? And so, you see it across all sectors, but tech always had VC money, or at least it did for the past 20-plus years, right? Biotech always had it, but ag was getting VC money for the first time ever. They just never had it before. So, I was looking at that, paying attention to it, and one of my clients left his big corporate role job. He left to go and become CEO of an AgTech startup. And so, we got to talking, and so eventually he recruited me to come join him as CFO.
[15:47]Maya Pomroy: So, was this your first experience in venture?
[15:50]David Verbitsky: It was, yes. Yeah. So, I was waiting. I was like, ″Should I move or should I not? Should I make this jump?" And so, I thought, ″Okay, I'm going with someone who I've worked with before." I know him already. We have an existing relationship. There seems to be all this momentum. I got a CFO title. That sounds great. So, I made the jump.
[16:09]Maya Pomroy: That's scary, though. That's a scary jump to make.
[16:12]David Verbitsky: It is, and I can tell you very quickly, within a matter of months, I regretted it. It's just something where you just know this is not the right fit, not the best use of your skills. But also, just working at a startup. So, when I was an engineer, I worked at a startup, but you're straight out of college. You don't know anything. You have no other perspective, so you're fine. But then after that, I worked for two huge, large multinational companies, and then after that experience, and that was for a 10-year period, after that, then going to a startup, it's very different.
The role, the responsibilities of what are expected were just they were different than what I was expecting. And so, this isn't the right fit, but let's keep going and, you know, you have to make the most out of it. But you learn from everything. And so, right now, I look at it as all just like, you know, the steps you're taking to move forward and learning. So, that was a good experience from a learning perspective. Then I joined Expara. So, I was looking to get out.
I continued to talk with my contacts in banking, because I didn't flee banking because I hated it, which is what a lot of people are. I was just looking at my options, and I thought it was a good opportunity. So, I kept in touch. I kept talking to a lot of people at various banks. And, you know, I think it's always important, right? Keep your options open. Don't burn bridges.
[17:38]Maya Pomroy: And keep your connections. I mean, your network is everything.
[17:41]David Verbitsky: Yeah. I mean, it's very important. So, at that time, just never found the right fit. I was a bit more eyes wide open, like you got to find the right team.
[17:50]Maya Pomroy: More discerning.
[17:51]David Verbitsky: Right. And so, I didn't find the right fit at that time. But I was looking. I was like, ″I have to leave this job that I'm in at the startup." And so, then I found Expara Ventures, and… Expara was a VC fund.
[18:05]Maya Pomroy: And where was it? Was it in New York as well?
[18:08]David Verbitsky: So, the fund was actually based in Singapore.
[18:10]Maya Pomroy: Okay. That's not New York.
[18:13]David Verbitsky: It is not New York. Now, I did not relocate there because I joined in 2020, so…
[18:19]Maya Pomroy: Oh, perfect timing.
[18:21]David Verbitsky: Exactly. It was virtual, and I joined at that point. That was because I was looking for an offering, right? And so, when I look back on that job, I think, ″Okay, I joined it because I clearly wanted to leave,″ and I was like, ″Oh, VC fund, perfect. That sounds great." I got a partner title. Fantastic. All these things seem pretty good. The thing is, it was a very early-stage VC fund, like investing in companies that were like seed, even pre-seed, which is extremely…
[18:55]Maya Pomroy: It's a long runway.
[18:57]David Verbitsky: Yes. And it's a different skill set. And so, that one, I learned a lot during my time there, like about 18 months, or so, when I was there. It was a great learning experience. I enjoyed it, but I just knew. I was like, ″This is not the right fit." But I then learned you need to be patient, and you have to find the right opportunity, and you have to find the right next step. And what I tell…
[19:25]Maya Pomroy: Yes, during COVID, when everything is, sort of, no one knows what's going on, or what's happening tomorrow.
[19:31]David Verbitsky: Exactly. Right. And I knew, but I had much better perspective on that one, right? That one was like, ″Look, I knew I wanted to leave the other job, so I was trying to find something." And then I had the partner title, which was great. But then I think it's also something you learn of like, don't leave jobs and just don't go chasing titles for the sake of titles. Learned that from the CFO role, and then the partner role, right?
If I went to a different fund at that time, a fund that was later stage, I think I might've still been there now, maybe, or at least I know I wouldn't have left as early as I did, right? It could have been a much better fit if I found a fund that was actually stateside. That also, I think, could have been different, right? And not where the nexus of the fund is on the other side of the world. All those things.
So, that one was much more “eyes wide open” in terms of I knew what I was getting into, but also knew this was just, kind of, a stepping stone again. And so, again, kept the relationships open on the banking side, kept having conversations, and then eventually I found a fit that was the right fit for me, like the right role, exactly what they were looking for, the right sector, and all that. And so, in 2022, I started at Nomura Greentech.
And I came in heading up agriculture and food, and with the real focus on the innovation economy and ecosystem. That was, kind of, how they wanted to cover. So, it was, you're doing investment banking, you're working for a large, big bank. Nomura is the largest bank in Japan, large global bank. You're covering the sectors that I know and have all my relationships in. And so, it was a very good fit. It was very clear when I was speaking to them, when I had the offer, I was like, ″This actually feels like I'm going back to what I know and what I do best."
[21:29]Maya Pomroy: Well, and it also took all of the different experiences that you had in VC and investment banking and in engineering, and it's all in the same industry that you're passionate about. So, it literally was, it checked every single box for you. So, AgTech isn't something that, you know, people really talk about, right? I mean, they didn't use to. Now they do. But back then, I mean, like you said, it was all software and SaaS and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So, tell me about some of those deals that you were a part of with your newest opportunity that were really exciting for you.
[22:05]David Verbitsky: Yeah. This was on the back of the SPAC wave.
[22:09]Maya Pomroy: '21, '22, yeah?
[22:09]David Verbitsky: Exactly. Yeah. '21 was probably the peak of that, and '22 was, yeah, there were still some deals getting done. And so, fundraising, capital raising was a big part of this. There was some M&A going on, but it was really just driven by, like, ″Okay, how much capital can you raise? Like, what is the story we're telling? How do we grow this business, and, you know, how do we take advantage of these phenomenal capital markets that are there?"
So, got to work, raised money for a few different vertical farms. So, vertical farms are… They're indoor ag production. You’re growing completely indoors. There's no sunlight. It's all artificial lighting and growing at very kind of crops are all very high concentrated levels.
You're working with, like, cultivated protein companies, which people think of as, like, lab-grown meat. And you're really working with, like, the future of food and where food could go on the ag side, where you have different biological inputs and things like that.
It was a very fun time. Everyone was feeling great. We were at the end of a peak or bubble, really, in that sector. So, it was nice. And then it crashed afterwards, as all bubbles do, right? So, a lot of those things in hindsight, you're like, ″Okay, maybe they make sense, maybe they don't. But they definitely didn't make sense in the way that they were funded and the way that people went after them,″ right? Just like grow at all costs, not actually thinking of like it can stuff be profitable.
And we've been in the industry, they have been really crawling back out of the hole that we dug for ourselves in all those exuberant years that we had in like, say, '19, '20, '21.
[23:43]Maya Pomroy: Yes. And now we're back into the roaring '20s, aren't we?
[23:47]David Verbitsky: Yeah, look, things are getting better, but it's still a matter of survival. And that's what I, kind of, see today, right? And so, I was at Nomura Greentech for almost three, four years. And I came there at the very end of a peak cycle. I saw everything burst and fall. And what I got out of that time period, what I learned, was just very strong conviction in the sector, in the relationships. And that this sector specifically really isn't well suited for a big banking model because it's very cyclical when you're looking at big deals.
[24:05]Maya Pomroy: It's complicated, too. You need to have a lot of knowledge about it, which a lot of people don't invest their time in.
[24:11]David Verbitsky: Yes. You definitely need a lot of industry… Yes, 100%. But a key part of it was it was very founder-owned and family-owned businesses that were much smaller. You know, sometimes they would be multi-generational, but a lot of time it would be people that have just worked for the last 30, 40, 50 years on building their business, and they want to go into it and they want to exit.
So, you have to have a bit more of a flexible way of working with companies that are smaller, that are private, and that just you need patience, and have a longer time perspective on things. So, I saw an opportunity in 2024. I saw this opportunity. I was thinking about it. And then what ended up being a great catalyst for me, but it's all about how you see opportunity was, Nomura was downsizing its U.S. business. It was cutting almost half of its overall banking operations and team at that time. And so, you know, look, that happens in this industry, and things… That was happening.
And so, what I saw out of that was I had already been thinking about, ″Okay, how can I actually make this work and maybe going out on my own?" It was a catalyst for me to start my own firm. It was a catalyst to bring clients with me from day one and to really hit the ground running. And with a lot of back-and-forth negotiation in terms of my exit and separation out of Nomura, I was actually able to take active deals and have them be terminated by Nomura, and then signed up with Verbitsky Capital on day one.
[26:14]Maya Pomroy: And that was 2024?
[26:14]David Verbitsky: This was in 2024, which is not that long ago, right? This was probably 16 months ago, when all this was going down. And so, day one of the new firm, I had three deals that were signed up, three M&A deals that were under contract and under engagement. And so, it was a lot of things, right? Some things all line up, and then things can go wrong. And then other times things can really go right. This was, I'd already been thinking about this for a while, but the question was always like, ″What's the catalyst? When should I actually jump out to doing something on my own?"
And then that coming without my control, right, and just being like, ″Hey, the whole firm is downsizing. You're leaving anyway." And then making, you know, turning lemons into lemonade, so to speak, of being like, ″Okay, let's negotiate this. Let's see what we can do. Let's bring these deals. You guys aren't doing anything in ag, so what do you care?”
[27:09]Maya Pomroy: And you don't look like you want to. Yeah.
[27:11]David Verbitsky: Yeah, you don't want to. You're… Half the sectors you're cutting, and that's fine, right? Whatever you're doing, right? But like, let me make something out of this. And so, started the firm that way, and it's been good ever since, right? I mean, there's growing pains, obviously, for any new business. But I think for the first full year in 2025, I always look at things… As long as you have realistic expectations. I think things went well, and things continue to seem to be growing.
And our team is growing. Our business model and operating model continues to evolve. It's still very early on in this company's life, but so far, so good. And it's, you know, fun and interesting. And I think, kind of, thinking about also all the, everything you learn in business school, too, [crosstalk 00:27:55].
[27:55]Maya Pomroy: That's what I was going to say. All that acumen, the financial acumen, and entrepreneurship.
[28:00]David Verbitsky: Yeah. Management skills, HR, thinking through all the other functions that are critical for running a business, what you before were helping people with. You know, you are your own client now. And so, it all sits on your shoulders. It's fun, but you got to keep going and pushing every day. So, you need to…
[28:18]Maya Pomroy: Well, you need to come and talk at the Lilie Lab, because the Lilie Lab probably didn't exist when you were there, which is the entrepreneurship lab that we have at Rice. I mean, you would be a wonderful speaker. You know, just, sort of, going to plug that. That would be a great opportunity because that's where their founders, you know, sort of, live, and all of these amazing entrepreneurial ventures really start at Lilie.
But, you know, your story is very, very similar to those that are starting their new ventures right here in Houston and at Rice. And it really was your foundation at Rice Business that brought you to where you are today. So, tell me how big your team is now.
[29:00]David Verbitsky: We are six people total, including myself. So, we're going to be careful with expenses and costs. But in terms of, I think, quality of people and character, right, that I think is probably first and foremost the important thing when you're building a team. So, very happy with that, and I see a lot of potential. And now hopefully we have some good early momentum that we can keep building off of into the future.
[29:27]Maya Pomroy: What do you look for in leaders?
[29:29]David Verbitsky: I think this is a very difficult thing to… Like, I don't really know if you can quantify or measure it, but it's judgment. And the only way you can really see that is seeing people in action, right? It's seeing, okay, when you're in a difficult situation… Or maybe it's not even difficult, but when you have to make decisions and take responsibility for things. And some of it could be very easy, like simple things. We're in the middle of a deal, and you got to just decide on how you move forward, right?
How do you take decisions? How do you move forward? How do you take accountability? How do you, in certain circumstances, decide not to do something, which is probably more important in many different ways? And the only way I think you can really see that is seeing people in their element, right? And you don't necessarily have to have hired them. You could have worked with them before. You could have seen them or gotten detailed references from people that you trust about people.
But I think that is really the key thing, because it encapsulates everything. It's not a matter of like, ″Can you do something the fastest, or are you the best at any individual task?" I think it's a matter of can you put it all together and decide and prioritize where you want to spend your time, and prioritize, kind of, like, here are the key decisions that have to be made in order to have the best outcome.
[30:53]Maya Pomroy: What are you the most excited about in AgTech that's coming up? Can you share some things that really are exciting for you that you see on the horizon?
[31:02]David Verbitsky: So, I would say I think it's tied to broader health and nutrition trends and consumer trends, but what I respond to the most as a consumer, and then where I see companies actually being the most successful in the sector, is the stuff that I'm drawn to the most. And so, specifically, it is in fresh produce and higher-value products when it comes to fresh produce, either in the form of more nutritious, or better tasting, or longer lasting.
Some of that stuff is through genetic improvements. So, in berries, there's been a lot of improvements in blueberries and in strawberries. Those two specifically, you have, kind of, better tasting, firmer blueberries, longer-lasting, sweeter strawberries. You've seen the stuff in grapes. You're seeing a lot of it in citrus. Plenty in the lettuce aisle. There's been a lot of innovation there, more from kind of indoor growing, where you have higher nutrient-dense salad and lettuce that has longer shelf life and just makes a better consumer experience.
And then also on the veggie side and other fruits, I think, it's a more subtle way of bringing branding into our fruits and vegetables that we eat. And it's just thinking of like, ″Okay, here's a higher-value piece of fruit." And so, it's not the same as just a CPG brand of like some food you buy in, um, of a packaged good, or even, say, in dairy, which is more branded, right? I mean, you have all this new food, and you have all these new choices, and the flavors…
[32:41]Maya Pomroy: Like dried berries. I mean, those are like half of my pantry. That's all my kids eat. It's like dried fruit.
[32:46]David Verbitsky: Yeah, I mean, that's one thing too, right? So, just getting that, and that's that supply chain, just more supply, right? And so, to me, it's tied to can people have access to better, both more nutritious food, but also better tasting food. And I think that's ultimately, you need it to taste good, and you need that to be the driver. But then you need to be able to show other value to consumers, right?
More nutrition and longer shelf life, whatever it is. Then you start really enjoying stuff. So, like another example, like Sumo Citrus. I don't know if you have those at the store, right? But like these gigantic oranges, [crosstalk 00:34:24].
[33:19]Maya Pomroy: Yes, my daughter eats them all the time.
[33:22]David Verbitsky: Yeah, they're mandarins, right? And so, easy to peel. You know, those didn't exist 10 years ago. And so, that's the type of stuff that is becoming more gradual. But there's a lot of interesting developments and innovation on the fruit and vegetable side, and I think that'll continue.
[33:38]Maya Pomroy: And trying to figure out those target markets, which all goes back to Rice and those marketing classes and everything else of bringing value and, you know, segmentation and all of that. So, it really has been full circle for you.
[33:51]David Verbitsky: Yep.
[33:51]Maya Pomroy: So, last question. What's your best piece of career advice that you would give to somebody that's, sort of, where you were, you know, 15 years ago, of, man, like, I really don't want to keep on doing this, and I just don't know if it's the right time, but it might… I mean, you know, what would you say to someone that's, sort of, considering an MBA to really pivot their own career?
[34:16]David Verbitsky: Yeah, so first and foremost, I would say it's all about relationships and your ability to maintain them. That's part networking, but it's also just part effort of just people you already do know, maintaining those relationships. I do think that's first and foremost the most important thing. Don't burn any bridges, right? Keep them all active. And then building off of that, just see opportunities when they present themselves. Be open to things, because they might be the wrong choice, but you should learn something from every new step you take.
So, there's like, I look at my career, and getting the first job, investment banking, was a big opportunity. Going to Goldman Sachs and switching 100% into agriculture was a big opportunity, which I was like, I don't know, but let's try it out, right? Those things worked out incredibly well. And then I had a bunch of missteps of, like trying to go and do a startup or VC fund that just wasn't the right fit, or go into a place that was good for a while, then wasn't. And then it just, it leads you here.
So, like, realize when an opportunity presents itself and don't be afraid to take it, which is the right piece of advice. Just be aware and realize this is an opportunity. Maybe it's not the right one, but be, I think, very mindful and have this perspective like this is a big opportunity that I'm getting the chance to take. So, should I or should I not? And this could be a turning point. It could be a pivot, or it could just be a huge next step in your career in the same trajectory that you were already having.
[35:44]Maya Pomroy: I love it. Those are great, great lessons and words to live by. David, it's been a pleasure. I really appreciate you taking out some time from your day to get back into our Rice community, and would love for you to, whenever you're in Houston, you should come by and check out the Lilie Lab. I'm sure they would love to reconnect with you.
[36:01]David Verbitsky: That'd be great.
[36:04]Maya Pomroy: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Brian Jackson.
The Rice MBA spring boarded David into a career in investment banking with a special focus on agriculture and food. Now he's applying his industry expertise to his own investment banking firm.
Now an investment banking associate at Bank of America, Chris discusses his military experience and how the Rice MBA helped him make a major career transition.
Rzan shares how her father's pursuit of the American dream inspired her, why she was drawn to the Professional MBA program and how her experience at Rice has left a mark on her forever.
Rice students bring an average of five years of experience to the Full-Time MBA program. From stronger cohorts to high-powered networking, here’s why work experience is important for top business programs in the U.S.
Earning an MBA at Rice Business is a transformative experience. Not only does it expand your skillset and career opportunities, it offers tremendous personal growth. But the Full-Time MBA journey begins long before you step on campus.
Classroom learning is critical, but just as valuable is the lived professional experience you bring into the MBA community. Here are a few reasons recruiters recommend bringing work experience into the Rice Full-Time MBA.
Enriches the MBA Classroom
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Teamwork is an essential aspect of the Rice MBA.
One of the things that makes the Rice Business Full-Time MBA special is the diversity of thought in every classroom. Full-time students bring an average of about five years of professional experience — and that’s not by accident. When students share real challenges they’ve faced at work, theories come alive, discussions deepen and learning becomes collaborative rather than purely academic. Prior experience also helps students dive deeper into coursework, understanding and applying the material to real business situations.
This blend of practical insight and academic rigor helps students connect concepts with real-world situations, creating a richer, more engaging classroom experience for everyone.
From teachers and soldiers to accountants and engineers, Rice MBAs offer a wide variety of experiences that greatly enhance in-class discussion.
Patrick Ray '20
Alumnus and Lecturer
Strengthens Your Professional Network
At Rice, your colleagues and classmates become more than just peers. They’re future collaborators, mentors and lifelong friends. When you join a cohort of seasoned professionals from diverse industries, you gain real-world perspectives and trusted insights that can help you evaluate the right next step at graduation — and open doors to new opportunities long after.
Whether you’re looking to accelerate within your industry, pivot into a new industry or transition into a different role, having professional experience gives you a foundation to build from. During your Full-Time MBA, you’ll explore summer internships, career coaching and employer connections with industry leaders in Houston and beyond. Our curriculum is designed to help students harness their experience and translate it into future success.
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Conferences allow Rice MBAs to network with students, alumni and local industry leaders.
Beyond our admissions team, companies that recruit at Rice are more likely to seek professionals with a dedicated work ethic in past roles. During Full-Time MBA recruitment, employers gauge the value you may bring to their organization — anchored by both your MBA involvement and prior work experience that highlights your proven ability to solve complex problems.
Rice Business also offers comprehensive career support to help you navigate your next move with confidence. That means personalized guidance from the Career Development Office and connections into fields like consulting, finance, tech and energy through recruitment, fellowships, conferences and more.
Builds on Your Story
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Bringing experience into the MBA helps you make the most of the program.
Recruiters at Rice Business don’t just look at years on a job — they look at what you’ve achieved in the process. Your biggest accomplishments and your toughest challenges equally make your application stand out, and the lessons you’ve learned make your contributions in class more meaningful.
Having work experience prior to the MBA also gives you a better idea of where you want to go next, which allows you to make your MBA experience deeper, more intentional and uniquely yours. At the end of the day, your professional experience is just as important as your lived personal experience.
Work experience isn’t just a box to check on your MBA application. It enriches your learning, strengthens your community and powers your professional growth, allowing you to make the most of your MBA journey at Rice.
Rice Business is committed to helping you accelerate your career at any stage and supporting your professional growth long after graduation. The earnings potential shows investing in an MBA is well worth it.
Rice University’s Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business today announced the launch of its Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program, a 10-month, credit-bearing professional credential designed for current and aspiring leaders seeking deep expertise in the business of healthcare.
Avery Ruxer Franklin
Rice University’s Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business today announced the launch of its Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program, a 10-month, credit-bearing professional credential designed for current and aspiring leaders seeking deep expertise in the business of healthcare. Situated at the crossroads of Houston’s renowned Texas Medical Center and global healthcare innovation, the program blends rigorous business fundamentals with healthcare-specific strategy, operations and management.
The Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program complements Rice Business’ established MBA healthcare specialization and builds on the school’s growing suite of industry-focused offerings. The curriculum emphasizes practical application, peer networking and real-world insights through case studies, electives and engagement with industry partners. Certificate credits can also be applied toward Rice Business’ on-campus MBA, broadening students’ academic and professional pathways.
“Healthcare is one of the most complex and rapidly evolving sectors of the global economy,” said Peter Rodriguez, the Houston Endowment Dean of Rice Business, which includes both the Jones Graduate School of Business and the Virani Undergraduate School of Business. “This new certificate program reflects our commitment to preparing bold leaders who can navigate change, drive operational excellence and make a meaningful impact on patient outcomes and organizational performance. Rice Business is uniquely positioned — through our location, faculty expertise and community partnerships — to equip professionals with the strategic skills required in today’s healthcare landscape.”
The program is open to a diverse cohort of professionals including healthcare practitioners, managers and those looking to switch careers. Students benefit from access to Rice’s healthcare community, including alumni networks, industry events and experiential learning opportunities at the world’s largest medical complex, the Texas Medical Center.
“Our healthcare certificate program was crafted to bridge the gap between business strategy and healthcare delivery,” said Shiva Sivaramakrishnan, the Henry Gardiner Symonds Professor of Accounting and academic director of healthcare programming. “Participants will gain actionable skills in areas such as value-based care, organizational leadership and healthcare finance, enabling them to lead high-performing teams and drive positive change across diverse healthcare settings.”
The program also integrates opportunities for engagement beyond the classroom. Learners can connect with Rice’s broader healthcare ecosystem through workshops, industry talks, mentorship and community events.
Applications for the Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program are now open. Interested candidates can find more information about admissions, curriculum and support services online here.
Rice University’s Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business today announced the launch of its Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program, a 10-month, credit-bearing professional credential designed for current and aspiring leaders seeking deep expertise in the business of healthcare.
Two Rice University faculty members have been recognized with national awards from the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP), highlighting the university’s impact on research that shapes understanding of work, well-being and organizational life.
Rice Business rose in the 2026 U.S. News Best Online MBA rankings, placing No. 21 overall and earning top 10 spots in finance and general management, highlighting the strength and reach of the online graduate program.
Two Rice University faculty members have been recognized with national awards from the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP), highlighting the university’s impact on research that shapes understanding of work, well-being and organizational life.
Rice Business rose in the 2026 U.S. News Best Online MBA rankings, placing No. 21 overall and earning top 10 spots in finance and general management, highlighting the strength and reach of the online graduate program.
Avery Ruxer Franklin
Rice University’s online graduate programs earned significant gains in the latest U.S. News & World ReportBest Online Programs rankings, with strong upward movement across engineering, computing and business disciplines. The 2026 rankings underscore Rice’s growing national profile for delivering rigorous, high-impact graduate education in a flexible online format.
Rice’s Online Master of Computer Science (MCS) program surged to No. 3 nationally in the Best Online Master’s in Information Technology Programs category, jumping seven spots from last year’s No. 10 ranking. The program is ranked among the top online IT programs in the country and continues its rapid ascent since debuting in the rankings just a few years ago.
Launched in 2019 by Rice’s George R. Brown School of Engineering and Computing, the online MCS program is designed for working professionals seeking advanced technical expertise without pausing their careers. The curriculum blends foundational computer science with applied learning in areas such as artificial intelligence, machine learning and cybersecurity, supported by close faculty engagement and individualized academic support.
“The continued momentum of our online MCS program reflects Rice’s focus on academic excellence and relevance in a fast-changing technological landscape,” said Scott Rixner, director of professional programs and professor in computer science. “Our students are gaining the skills and perspective needed to solve complex problems and lead innovation in their organizations, and it’s gratifying to see that work recognized at the national level.”
Rice Business also earned strong recognition across multiple online MBA categories. In the overall Best Online MBA Programs ranking, Rice Business placed No. 21, rising four spots from last year. The school also posted gains in several specialty areas:
No. 6 Best Online Finance MBA Programs, up five spots
No. 10 Best Online General Management MBA Programs
No. 17 Best Online MBA Programs for Veterans
“Our online MBA programs are built around the same high standards, collaborative culture and global perspective that define the Rice Business experience on campus,” said Peter Rodriguez, dean of Rice Business. “These rankings reflect our commitment to developing principled leaders who can think broadly, act decisively and make an impact wherever their careers take them.”
The U.S. News rankings evaluate online degree programs nationwide based on factors such as student engagement, faculty credentials, services and technologies and outcomes related to affordability and completion. Only regionally accredited institutions offering fully online degree programs are considered.
“The strong performance of Rice’s online programs speaks to the value of combining flexibility with academic rigor,” said Shawn Miller, associate provost for digital learning and strategy. “Our students benefit from access to world-class faculty and thoughtfully designed programs that allow them to advance professionally while balancing work and life commitments. We’re proud to support learners who are preparing to lead in a rapidly evolving global economy.”
Rice University’s Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business today announced the launch of its Graduate Certificate in Healthcare Management program, a 10-month, credit-bearing professional credential designed for current and aspiring leaders seeking deep expertise in the business of healthcare.
Two Rice University faculty members have been recognized with national awards from the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP), highlighting the university’s impact on research that shapes understanding of work, well-being and organizational life.
Rice Business rose in the 2026 U.S. News Best Online MBA rankings, placing No. 21 overall and earning top 10 spots in finance and general management, highlighting the strength and reach of the online graduate program.
Working on your MBA application? Here’s why you should connect with a student ambassador before hitting submit.
Applying to an MBA program is a big decision. No website, brochure or “day in the life” video can fully capture what it’s like to be a business student. That’s where student ambassadors come in.
Rice Business MBA student ambassadors offer one of the most valuable resources available to prospective MBA students: an honest, firsthand perspective. Whether you’re early in your research or preparing to submit an application before the next deadline, connecting with a current Rice MBA student can help you move forward with clarity and confidence.
Chat with an active Rice Business student
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Talking to a current MBA student can help you start your journey strong.
Rice student ambassadors are immersed in the MBA experience right now. They can share what the workload is really like, what their class dynamics are like, and how they’re balancing academics, work or recruitment, and life outside the classroom. Plus, student ambassadors in the Full-Time MBA program can offer tips on prepping for recruitment, internships and full-time jobs.
These conversations offer candid insights you won’t find elsewhere: from favorite professors and top study spots to how to get involved and where to find the best late-night coffee.
My advice to prospective students is to talk to current students and alumni before joining Rice, learn about their experiences and gain insights from their paths.
Tony Parra Choukeir ’26
Full-Time MBA Student Ambassador
Hear how an MBA can help you grow
Beyond the day-to-day student experience, ambassadors can help you think more clearly about your own goals and understand why they chose Rice for their MBA. By talking to someone who has been in your shoes, you’ll learn more about how the Rice MBA actively supports career growth, leadership development and personal transformation.
Whether you’re looking to pivot industries, advance in your current role or sharpen your business expertise, hearing how current students are applying what they learn can help you envision your own path.
Talking to a student ambassador can help you submit a stronger, more informed application. Current students can offer guidance on how to articulate program fit and highlight your experiences. If you’re applying in the upcoming round or just preparing ahead of time, a second perspective can be extremely beneficial before submitting your application.
If you’re still deciding which program is right for you, MBA student ambassadors can help point you in the right direction. Rice Business offers student ambassadors representing a range of its top-ranked MBA programs. This includes the Full-Time, Professional (both weekend and evening), Hybrid and Online MBA.
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No matter your schedule, there's an MBA program for you.
Ambassadors can also offer insights to those with an MBA program already in mind. Chatting with someone whose trajectory, goals and routine align with your own can offer the most relevant and meaningful advice.
No matter where you are in your journey to business school, meeting with a Rice MBA student ambassador is one of the most impactful steps you can take.
Ready to take the next step? Connect with a student ambassador today or learn more about our programs and culture to see why you belong here.
Rice Business is committed to helping you accelerate your career at any stage and supporting your professional growth long after graduation. The earnings potential shows investing in an MBA is well worth it.
New research shows how firms use hurdle rates differently in practice than finance theory predicts.
Based on research by John Barry (Rice Business), Bruce Carlin (Rice Business), Alan Crane (Rice Business), and John Graham (Duke)
Key takeaways:
A hurdle rate is the minimum return a project or deal must clear to receive approval.
In finance classrooms, hurdle rates are typically taught as a decision-making tool.
But in practice, firms use them strategically to shape negotiations during project development.
If you’ve taken a corporate finance class, you’re familiar with the logic behind investment decisions: a project creates value only if it earns more than the firm’s cost of capital.
To put that logic into practice, firms rely on a “hurdle rate” — the minimum return a project must clear to receive approval. If a firm’s hurdle rate is set at 15%, for example, a proposed investment expected to earn 14% may be rejected outright during evaluation.
According to new research, however, firms rarely use hurdle rates as neutral tools for making investment decisions. Rather, these rates are often set well above the cost of capital and play a more active role in how deals are negotiated, shaped and ultimately approved.
A forthcoming article, co-authored by Rice Business professors John Barry, Bruce Carlin and Alan Crane, along with Duke professor John Graham, draws a sharp distinction between project evaluation and project development — a separation that rarely appears in finance models.
In the finance classroom, costs and returns are often treated as fixed inputs, and the hurdle rate is used to evaluate whether a project is in or out. In practice, however, many investments take shape through negotiation. Prices, terms and even project scope are often still in flux as managers work with suppliers, customers or acquisition targets. In that setting, the hurdle rate is no longer just a screening threshold; it becomes a constraint that shapes the bargaining process.
“The hurdle rate becomes a line in the sand,” Barry says. “Managers can point to it and say, ‘If we can’t clear this, we can’t do the project.’”
Consider a firm developing a new production facility. In a textbook capital budgeting exercise, land, materials and construction are treated as fixed costs, and managers use a hurdle rate to evaluate whether the expected cash flows can justify them. In practice, however, those costs are not a given — they’re negotiated. When managers approach suppliers and landowners with a firm-wide hurdle rate in hand, the return threshold becomes a hard constraint; unless prices fall or terms improve, the project will not move forward. The hurdle rate, in other words, shapes the negotiation long before any spreadsheet delivers a final yes or no.
To test this idea systematically, the researchers draw on multiple sources of evidence. Using surveys of CFOs, investment outcomes, and merger data, they show that elevated hurdle rates are not simply a conservative bias or a deviation from textbook finance. Instead, high hurdle rates function as an internal commitment, shaping how firms negotiate with suppliers, partners and acquisition targets and often improving the firm’s share of value in the deals it pursues.
Taken together, the approach allows the researchers to connect what firms say about their investment rules, how managers act on those rules inside the firm, and what outcomes materialize in negotiation. “The hurdle rate becomes a line in the sand,” Barry says. “Managers can point to it and say, ‘If we can’t clear this, we can’t do the project.’”
While much of the academic literature treats elevated hurdle rates as a distortion to be explained, this study, forthcoming in the Journal of Financial Economics, focuses on how they function as a strategic commitment with real consequences for bargaining.
“What we teach in finance classes is really only step one,” says Barry. “The next step in being a great finance practitioner is thinking beyond the spreadsheet — not that the models we teach are wrong, but rather how the assumptions and methods we use shape decisions and incentives both within and outside the organization.”
For students, the lesson is not to abandon the textbook framework, but to recognize that it is not rigid. Understanding how these analytical tools operate within organizations — and how they guide choices long before a deal is ever signed — is part of what turns financial analysis into effective managerial practice.
In startup accelerator programs, gender diversity alone doesn't engage investors — what matters more is that founder and mentor teams align in their gender composition.
Professor Kerry Back received the 2025 Financial Management Association’s Innovation in Teaching Award. We sat down with him to talk about how AI is changing finance — and the way we teach it.
Meet Breanna Jackson '27, global planning advisor at ExxonMobil and Professional MBA student at Rice Business.
Breanna Jackson has built a career at the intersection of sustainability and strategy, leading complex environmental remediation projects across the U.S. Now, she’s broadening her perspective and strengthening her strategic skills as a student in the Professional MBA Class of 2027. Continue reading to learn more about Breanna’s career, her experience in the Rice MBA program and her work to expand access to STEM education.
Tell us a little about your career and background.
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Breanna Jackson '27, Professional MBA
Hometown: Aurora, Il (suburbs of Chicago)
Education: B.S. in Civil Engineering, North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University
Most Recent Employer and Job Title: ExxonMobil, global planning advisor, sustainability – environmental solutions
Relevant Career Highlights or Industry Experience: I’m an environmental project manager at ExxonMobil with five years of experience delivering environmental operations and remediation projects across multiple U.S. regions. I began my career in New Jersey managing O&M systems and a retail portfolio, building a strong foundation in regulatory compliance, contractor oversight and operational execution. I then progressed into leading complex remediation initiatives exceeding $100M, where I drive site strategy, cost and schedule performance, and cross-functional collaboration to advance sustainable, long-term site outcomes. During my first semester in the MBA program, I transitioned into my current role supporting the environmental solutions director.
What is a fun fact about you?
At the age of 17, I became a published author. This opportunity served as the catalyst for my passion for education. Since then, I have volunteered more than 100 hours in underfunded elementary schools to promote STEM education in minority communities. My commitment to advancing STEM education has continued through my participation in college and professional panels in New Jersey, Chicago and Houston. This dedication to giving back is supported by my employer, as I currently serve as a STEM Connect professional in partnership with a local HISD teacher to encourage minority middle school students to pursue STEM careers.
Why did you choose to attend business school?
While I have worked on some of the largest environmental remediation portfolios at ExxonMobil, I often found myself questioning how and why business leaders make strategic decisions. Attending business school allows me to broaden my perspective and better understand how leaders and managers think and act strategically on behalf of the corporation.
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Breanna and fellow Rice Owls.
Why did you choose Rice Business?
Rice Business is a well-recognized program in Texas and lies within the oil and gas industry. It is distinguished by its tight-knit, collaborative environment, and after a semester in the program, I can confidently say that this culture is genuine. I chose Rice because it challenges me academically, broadens my way of thinking and provides access to an unparalleled professional network.
Why did you choose our Professional MBA program?
As a college graduate during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, I yearned for an in-person academic experience. The Rice Professional MBA program allows me to continue working and advancing my career while also benefiting from the rigor, collaboration and engagement of a traditional classroom environment.
What student organizations have you joined and why?
I have joined the Black Business Student Association (BBSA) and I serve as a brand ambassador for Forte. I chose to participate in these organizations because they provide valuable resources, mentorship and support that contribute to my success throughout my MBA journey.
What is your advice for current prospective students?
Pursuing an MBA is a huge investment in yourself. Do your research to see what program aligns with your goals both personally and professionally.
Breanna Jackson is a Professional MBA student in the Class of 2027.
Now an investment banking associate at Bank of America, Chris discusses his military experience and how the Rice MBA helped him make a major career transition.
Owl Have You Know
Season 5, Episode 24
When it comes to working in military intelligence, strong leadership skills and the ability to make quick decisions under pressure are key. Just as important to a mission’s success is being a good team player.
Those were the lessons and skills Chris Stillwell ’24 carried into his two career pivots after his time working as a military intelligence officer for the U.S. Army. His first pivot landed him a role at Kearney in Dubai focusing on M&A integration and strategy consulting. Chris then decided to pursue an MBA at Rice Business to sharpen his financial skills and pivot once again into the world of investment banking.
Now an investment banking associate at Bank of America, Chris joins co-host Brian Jackson ’21 to discuss his military experience, why he chose Rice, how the program helped him make a major career transition, and his advice to those considering an MBA to pursue new career opportunities.
[00:00]Brian Jackson: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.
Today, we're joined by Chris Stillwell, a Rice Business Full-Time MBA graduate from the class of 2024, who's taken a unique path from military intelligence to the world of finance. In the military, Chris built a foundation in leadership, discipline, and decision-making under pressure. He later transitioned to consulting, including time in Dubai, working on M&A Integration and Strategy. That experience led him to Rice Business, where he pursued an MBA to sharpen his financial skills and pivot into investment banking.
In this episode, we cover Chris's military experience, why he chose Rice, how the program supported a major career shift, and his advice for veterans and professionals considering a career transition through an MBA.
Hey, Chris, it's great to have you join me on Owl Have You Know.
[01:00]Chris Stillwell: Thanks for having me, Brian. I appreciate it. Appreciate being here.
[01:03]Brian Jackson: You've had one of the more fascinating career arcs that I think I've covered, from military intelligence to strategy consulting in Dubai and now investment banking at Bank of America. I mean, I heard military intelligence, and of course, I'm thinking of all the Hollywood movies. You know? It's really dramatic. Everything seems so cinematic, right? And has to happen quickly, and it's life-or-death decisions. But I guess from your experience, there's got to be a gap in these portrayals and, like, the real substance of military intelligence work.
[01:37]Chris Stillwell: 100%. I think that it sounds a lot sexier than it really is. Like, there's a lot of military movies out there. One of my jobs with the Army I commanded a drone unit. And I don't know if you've ever heard of the movie Eye in the Sky. I remember watching that, it was like, with Helen Mirren, it's all about drones.
I remember watching that and was like, "This is not how any of this works. This is, like, the complete antithesis of how we operate and how things are actually done." I just remember, like, getting out of that movie just being, like, frustrated. So, it's not as cool as some of the movies portray. Like, we can't identify people's faces from a drone 5,000 feet in the sky, but we could certainly do some other cool things, for sure.
[02:15]Brian Jackson: But you spent more than five years, right, in the Army, and you were in roles in Texas and New York. You know, could you tell me a bit about those roles?
[02:23]Chris Stillwell: So, I did four years active duty, and I did one year in the Reserves in, in New York for a bit. And when I was in active duty, I was stationed here in Texas at Fort Hood up in Killeen. Actually, lived in Austin, used to commute up there. As an intelligence officer, you know, I was primarily responsible for advising infantry or tank units on, you know, what the enemy course of action would be.
And I would have, like, a team of analysts that would assist me and, kind of, be like the red hat, we would call it, for the operations team, so that we can develop a plan to ultimately, like, defeat that enemy, whether it was in a training scenario or in a, you know, more forward-deployed scenario. I spent nine months in the Middle East as well, bouncing around a couple countries. But yeah, mostly you do intelligence advising attached to those units. Then I had one year where I was, you know, command that your own unit as well.
[03:10]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, all this is teamwork, and it seems to be situations where you're under pressure. Like, as a leader and as someone now who approaches teamwork, has this shaped, kind of, how you work across functions?
[03:21]Chris Stillwell: Absolutely. I think, you know, the military is a unique experience for a lot of people, especially those going to be an officer after school. Whether you go to West Point or ROTC, you're a 22-year-old kid, and then you're like, "Hey, here's a bunch of people you're now in charge of, you know, their lives and their responsibilities. Go after it." You know? And it's, there's no, like, manual, pretty much, of how to be a good leader. I mean, there's plenty of books written about it, but you really do have to learn.
And, you know, learn from not only your peers, but learn from people who are more senior than you as well. And, you know, as an intelligence officer, too, it's, kind of, a lot of pressures on you as well, is when you're trying to make the right call and give the right advice to your senior leaders, because bad advice or bad calls can really affect how you're operating.
[04:05]Brian Jackson: I know you probably can't talk much in specifics about it, but I'm sure you're, kind of, on pins and needles until the operation's over and you know that the intelligence was actionable and accurate.
[04:14]Chris Stillwell: Yeah. And you're also doing work during the operation as well. You're assessing, like, how much of the, let's say, enemy forces that have been you know, attrited. So, how much is remaining? You're also assessing what if there could be, like, a counterattack, let's say, or any kind of additional things that the enemy could do.
And then you're also organizing and helping any kind of collection efforts, making sure that you're looking in the right places to see where these additional enemy, like, attacks could come from, and then making sure that you're sending that information upwards and downwards. And I think that's maybe a good segue into, back to your original question, is, you know, how being a military officer helped me be, kind of, in my current role, and even at Rice, was, in the military, you are a leader, but you learn how to be a good follower as well. And I think what you do with that is that you are able to have great teamwork.
You're able, like, in my current job now, I have an analyst underneath me, but I have people like VPs and MDs above me, and I can understand what their intent is and what we need to get accomplished in our day-to-day job, but also articulate to the, you know, people below me, "Hey, this is the intent and this is how we do it." So, it's, kind of, been very helpful in those soft skills.
[05:19]Brian Jackson: Definitely. So, that would be one of the, I guess, mindsets that you took from the Army. Is there maybe a habit that you developed that you still lean on today?
[05:25]Chris Stillwell: From the military? I would say definitely getting things done is maybe the wrong way to say it, but, like, you know, or maybe getting a decision made. I mean, the worst thing you can do in the military is be indecisive. You got to make sure that you make decisions under pressure. And even today, like, I see it sometimes, you know, to my detriment or to my benefit.
You know, I want to make a decision now, whereas some people might want to sit on it and deliberate, and like, "No, let's just do this. Let's go for it, and let's adjust accordingly." So, that's definitely something I continue to do now.
[05:56]Brian Jackson: In corporate America, I see a lot of decisions get to the back burner, so you're exactly right. Like, how do you push it and say, "How do we get this decision point, make this actionable?"
[06:05]Chris Stillwell: Even just advancing meetings. Like, people, so many times will just sit around and just wait for someone to talk, and you're just sitting in this meeting for, like, extra minutes. Or, like, no, everyone's dancing around a question or dancing around an answer, and you're just like, "You got to progress the meeting," and you got to go, "Okay, let's go to this slide." "Okay, let's move here. Let's move there."
[06:22]Brian Jackson: So, Chris, could you tell me what inspired you to join the military?
[06:26]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, I mean, my story was, is not, like, super profound. Like, no one in my family served in the military. Actually, I just did I was an Eagle Scout, and Boy Scouts really exposed me to it, and I wanted to serve my country, so I did ROTC when I was in college. That was, kind of, my drive.
[06:41]Brian Jackson: Awesome. I'm an Eagle Scout too, but I didn't go as far as you. What was your Eagle Scout project?
[06:48]Chris Stillwell: So, I went to high school in New Jersey, and New Jersey's very, I guess, old. And so, there was an old cemetery there from the 1600s, but there were people buried in the 1700s and 1800s there as well. And one person was, like, from the Revolutionary War as well as a veteran. And so, they needed somebody to clean it up and document, like, who's even buried here? And so, that's what I did, was I cleaned up this cemetery, documented all the gravestones, took pictures, and, kind of, put a little memorial there so that people could visit and stuff like that.
[07:19]Brian Jackson: That's fantastic.
[07:20]Chris Stillwell: What was yours?
[07:21]Brian Jackson: Mine was in Malaysia, in Kuala Lumpur, and it was with the SPCA. And dogs get, kind of, a tough case there, so we repainted and cleaned kennels. And we had this mural in the front that had dogs and cats and everything painted on it, and it was really pretty. It took way longer than I anticipated and was much bigger of a project than I thought I signed up for, but, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Four weekends in a row, painting.
[07:52]Chris Stillwell: I can imagine it's rewarding, though. I think the Eagle Scout project, definitely something that not a lot of people get to do, and it definitely helps a lot of people in the community.
[08:01]Brian Jackson: It does. So, your pivot, one I think is from Army to consulting in Dubai. How did you end up there? Was that kind of the focus? Was it, "Okay, geographic choice, I wanted to go abroad?" Or was it consulting, and the geography was the bonus?
[08:17]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, great question. I have a very, I guess, weird path to consulting in Dubai, which I, you know, I was not expecting. One already, being in the Middle East when I was in the military, I thought I would never go back to the Middle East. And lo and behold, I ended up going to Dubai. Luckily, when I was in the military, I actually was in Dubai, so at least I had been to that city before, so I wasn't foreign to it.
And consulting, when I was in college, I interned pretty much every semester and every summer. And in the summers, I actually interned two years in consulting, so I was familiar with the space. And when I was leaving the military, I had an offer from Deloitte in DC, and then I also… Kearney actually reached out to me. I didn't apply to them. A recruiter reached out to me and said, "Hey, we're trying to build our Dubai office. We had some success hiring a couple of veterans. Would you be interested in coming to our office?"
And I was like, "Oh, actually, I heard…" I looked at the firm, I did some research, and, you know, they're a great kind of boutique consulting firm, kind of, similar, I would say, strategy to what the MBBs do in terms of, like, strategic consulting. And I was like, "You know what? It'd be really cool to live abroad, maybe for a year or two. And when I moved out there, I thought I was going to only be out there for a year or two." And I ended up being out there for three years. So, I did enjoy it.
[09:26]Brian Jackson: So, you spent time at the Mall of the Emirates?
[09:29]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, I lived nearby, so I could walk there if I wanted to.
[09:33]Brian Jackson: It's actually the first place I ever skied, was in Dubai, at the Mall of the Emirates.
[09:38]Chris Stillwell: Wow. A little icy, though, right?
[09:40]Brian Jackson: Yeah, not great. Not a good experience. But yeah, you know, still get to say I skied in the desert. So, it's something.
[09:47]Chris Stillwell: Absolutely.
[09:48]Brian Jackson: So, three years as an expat, you know. I grew up as an expat brat. I had my own experience with it. Be curious about some of your takeaways. What did you think about living abroad as an American?
[09:59]Chris Stillwell: Similar to, I would say, most Americans, I feel like… Or say a lot of Americans, we love to travel. And I've traveled a lot around the world even before I lived abroad. But living abroad, I think, is a completely different kind of experience than just traveling and being somewhere for a week. Like, you miss small things, like pretzels. I don't know why, but pretzels were incredibly hard to get in Dubai. And I don't really like pretzels that much, but just the lack of it made it more attractive.
And then there were just, like, small nuances of, like, "Oh, wow, this is actually something that's significantly different in terms of how something operates in a foreign country compared to, like, your home." But Dubai was an interesting place to be because it was such a melting pot in terms of different cultures and different countries. Like, I would go to a British grocery store. You know, like, there's an Indian grocery store. There was a, you know, local grocery store. I mean, like, there were so many different country influences. And I think it's even reflected in the people there as well.
And that, I thought, that's the coolest part about living abroad, is meeting people from all these different countries and different cultures and different backgrounds that you're not used to. I'm a big golfer, and my golf group, you know, was myself, an Italian guy, a British guy, a South African guy. So, it's like who's who of different countries. So, it was really cool.
[11:14]Brian Jackson: It's a real melting pot. So, I guess professionally, you know, living there, you're being challenged already, kind of, being pushed out of your boundaries, even just beyond the nine-to-five. What was the nine-to-five like?
[11:26]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, I wish it was nine-to-five. That would have been cool. I would say I'm the worst case study for careers in terms of nine-to-five. I don't think I've ever had a nine-to-five career yet. As a consultant, you know, as you talk with even people that go to Rice and get into consulting, you know, you do a lot. I was traveling every week. It was four days in a hotel, you know. And, like, a lot of times, you know, you work till midnight, maybe, or maybe you're done at, like, 7:00. It all depends on what you're working on.
But basically, as a consultant, I was with the client, and the hours are a little different for the client. So, they were there from 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. in the Middle East, because I mostly worked with Emirati clients. And then from, like, 2:00 p.m. onwards, I went, like, back to my hotel or back to my office, and we would, kind of, work as a team from there. The business language is English as well, which was interesting, very helpful for me. That's why I think so many people from all of these different countries could come to work in the Middle East.
But yeah, consulting, you know, is sitting with the client, doing a lot of PowerPoints and presentations, a lot of deliverables, advancing, kind of, the plan that you've set out, and meeting all these different milestones that you've promised the client. And then you've always got a little bit of BD on the side, business development and recruiting as well. You know, I used to do interviews as well for, you know, people trying to get into Kearney. But yeah, that was kind of a high-level view of the day-to-day.
[12:46]Brian Jackson: I mean, with your background of wanting to get projects pushed forward and get to a decision point, I mean, consulting's a perfect fit. You're seeing the problem of the client, you're giving them the solution, right? And implementing it. Is there a project that stood out to you in your time in Dubai?
[13:04]Chris Stillwell: There was one in particular. You know, we were helping to merge, kind of, two government organizations together, two, like, ministries into a single ministry. And so, that involved developing a Target Operating Model, meeting with clients. And, you know, it's kind of nerve-wracking sometimes when you're, you know, you're just this young guy going into meetings, and you're deciding the fate of an organization, even with headcount. You know, and you're deciding what the new organization's going to look like, what its roles, responsibilities, what's its mandates.
Obviously, you're not a decision-maker, but you're, you're facilitating that decision, and someone higher than you is making those decisions, especially on the client side. You know, that was just a very unique experience. You know, it was one of the first times I was exposed to, like, very senior people who were decision-makers in a country, and, like, it was going to make lasting impacts on how they were going to operate as a government.
[13:53]Brian Jackson: So, this being your first pivot, were there moments where there were, like, aha moments of, like, "Oh yeah, this makes sense. I know how to do this because of my previous experience in the military?”
[14:05]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, actually, to answer your question, but it was a very humbling moment for me. When I first joined consulting, I thought I was so great at PowerPoint because I had done all these PowerPoints in the military, you know, presenting to senior leaders and saying, "Look at these cool slides and maps that I used to, like, show." And then I get to consulting, and I had this manager who was like, "These are terrible slides. You need to do better." Then he obviously taught me how to do it better, but it was like, "Oh, there's actually an art to this PowerPoint thing."
And there's actually an art to how you structure a presentation and how you present to clients. And maybe in the military and a lot of other, maybe, corporate jobs, that art is not really practiced or understood. And I think consulting, and now even banking to an extent, really hone in on that skill. So, maybe that, kind of, answered your question, too. But, you know, it's definitely a…
[14:51]Brian Jackson: I mean, there's challenge with pivoting, and there's things that you think, yeah, I'm fantastic at doing this, but maybe not. Maybe it's an adjustment to a new language, and you pick it up. So, you're in Dubai, and you're thinking about the U.S., and you're thinking about an MBA. What pushed you to say, "Okay, this is it, now is the time?"
[15:09]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, so I initially, you know, wanted to stay only abroad for a year or two. You know, in the military, I had deployed. I had spent a lot of time away from home at training in the field, and I was, "Hey, I wasn't expecting to live abroad." COVID also hit while I was out there. And because of that, that actually extended my stay there as well, because things in Dubai actually were, kind of, better than America in terms of, like, golf was open, restaurants were open a lot earlier than it was in America. So, I, and I didn't really get some of the additional travel I wanted to do, like to Europe or Asia.
So, I wanted to stay until things opened up. And then when things opened up, it was great. I got to do that. But then I hit my three-year, kind of, almost close to my three-year mark, and I was like, "All right, I've done my time here. I want to go back to America. What are my options?" And I was weighing going back with my company and maybe pivoting. But I decided that I enjoyed consulting, but I really didn't enjoy living in a hotel four days a week anymore.
And then, when I was looking at careers and what to do, a lot of my colleagues, you know, consulting is a post-MBA job, and a lot of my colleagues had MBAs, and were telling me about it. And so, I was like, "All right, let me look into MBAs." And my picking of an MBA, I'm glad it worked out for me in terms of getting to Rice, but I really only wanted to go back to Texas or Florida because I lived in Texas before I came, and my family lives in Florida, and I like golfing. It's nice weather there all year round, and there's no taxes. So, lots of great things.
So, when I was looking at schools, Rice was the best school, ranking-wise, in terms of those two states. And I was like, "All right, let me just… I applied round one, so let me see if I get in. If I get in, good to go. If I don't get in, then I'll maybe look at some other schools." And I got in, and I was like, "Great." It was, like, December of '21, I got in. And I was like, "Great." And I gave my notice to my company, and, kind of, told them I wanted to leave around March timeframe. They were like, "Yep, no problem." So, stayed there for a couple more months, came back, and started my MBA career after that.
[17:01]Brian Jackson: Wow. So, beyond no taxation in the state of Texas and in our phenomenal ranking, was there anything specific about Rice that really drew you into it?
[17:11]Chris Stillwell: I was looking for some things like smaller classrooms, for example. Like a lot of people, we hire from Kearney, where, like, from Yale or HBS, and, like, their class size was like a thousand people. And, like, I think Rice, especially in the first term, really forces you to go to classes, to do your homework, to learn the materials.
And that was attractive to me as well, because I didn't come from a finance background at all. So, I didn't even know what a DCF was before I came through Rice. So, I was very grateful at that, you know, getting to Rice and realizing that it was such a good platform to be integrated into.
[17:43]Brian Jackson: For those who don't know, what is DCF?
[17:45]Chris Stillwell: DCF is Discounted Cash Flow, and it's the analysis, and it's basically a model to help understand the future cash flows of a company. And at the end of the day, you're arriving at an intrinsic value of what the company's worth.
[17:59]Brian Jackson: So, okay, you get to Rice. You jumped in, you got involved, you were in the Finance Association, you were the co-president, obviously, you were in the golf club, the Veterans Association, and the M.A. Wright Fund. You know, were you just trying to do a bit of everything to network and see where you wanted to go? What was the plan here?
[18:17]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, I think partially it, I think it's my background or my drive. I'm always someone who tries to get involved in things and be a part of clubs, and then maybe rise to leadership in clubs as well. You know, I did that in my undergrad. I do that now. I sit on, kind of, I'm involved in, like, on a board of a charity. And so, at Rice, I did an investment banking recruiting my first semester, and I felt like the Finance Association there did a fantastic job in training us, and prepping us, and mentoring us to get a banking job, to get us up to par in terms of the knowledge.
And so, I felt that, you know, and I then, obviously, I got an internship offer, and then when my second year started, I wanted to, kind of, give back to the organization, and I ran with my friend Jasper, who works at Wells Fargo, for co-president at the club. And we won. It was such a rewarding, I would say, second year, kind of, helping shape. Been the class below us, and even now I'm still friends with a lot of people who recruited even the year below us, and, kind of, still talk to them and run into them in the tunnels of downtown Houston.
[19:18]Brian Jackson: That's great. Yeah. The classmates are always the biggest part of the program, and the relationships you take afterwards as alumni. What part of this experience at Rice made the biggest impact on you?
[19:30]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, I mean, definitely getting a job, 100%. For sure.
[19:34]Brian Jackson: You took a giant leap here. So, that's fair answer.
[19:38]Chris Stillwell: But overall, I mean, like you go to get your MBA, one for a job, but two, it's also for networking and the connections you make. And I moved to a city where I knew nobody, to a school where I knew nobody, into a career where I knew nobody. And now I feel like it's almost really hard for, like, my mom still wants me to move back to Florida, and I think it'd be almost really hard for me to do that because I've made so many friends at Rice. I have friends that I go golfing with every weekend. I have friends that I, you know, every single bank pretty much in downtown, because we all recruited together.
I've just made friends through friends who've been in Houston for a long time. So, you know, you make this great network just going to Rice. And I feel like people at Rice, in particular, they take the work seriously, but not themselves, if that makes sense. Like, you find your good people at the end of the day.
[20:28]Brian Jackson: Folks are willing to work really hard. They're willing to share information, and I feel like people who take themselves too seriously are the ones who are competitive and not trying to maybe, you know, share the wealth.
[20:39]Chris Stillwell: Absolutely.
[20:40]Brian Jackson: So, I mean, this is basically you going into your next pivot, you know, going into investment banking. Was there, like now, an elevated sense of confidence of, "Okay, I've done this before. I'll do it again?”
[20:54]Chris Stillwell: Maybe some blind confidence sometimes. Yeah, you could even ask my parents. I went home for like four days for the Christmas break, the year I was recruiting, and I was, like, studying flashcards with my mom of all the IB 400 questions. And I was like, "I'm not going to get a job." You know, like, “All these people around me are much smarter than me. We've got a really talented pool of candidates that are recruiting this year.”
But, you know, I felt like at the end of the day, the Finance Association, and Rice, just the classes I took, really prepared me to understand, like, the basics of finance, the basics that are expected of the interview process, and then going forward. I saw when I started as an intern at the bank, I went to New York for a week. We were training with all these people from all these different schools, going to all these different groups in the bank. And some people didn't even know what a DCF was or, like, didn't know how to do it that well, I should say.
We were doing some practice problems, and I was like, "Wow, we're actually far ahead of a lot of these other schools and people." So, that was, kind of, good to see that, you know, Rice really put an effort into training us up. And nowadays, you know, I'm still involved with Rice in the recruiting process, just on the other side now. And, like, they have a bootcamp that they do where they train the students going into investment banking every weekend. They give them a different class that are taught by either bankers or teachers. They still have a mentorship program.
So, I think that Rice invests a lot of it into its students, that maybe some other schools, you'd just be a statistic.
[22:16]Brian Jackson: So, for folks who might want a career in investment banking and don't have your mother to help them with the flashcards, you would say the Rice program does a great job in helping them in the recruiting phases.
[22:27]Chris Stillwell: Absolutely. I mean, if you look at the, especially in Houston, you know, we got the proximity to the banks here. If you're recruiting into energy banking, Rice is one of the best schools to go to. We've had a great kind of placement program over the last decade or so. If you look at the number of bankers across the different banks in Houston, there's at least one or two Rice people at each bank.
[22:49]Brian Jackson: So, as an alumni, there's ways to volunteer after, right? And to come back and help students through recruiting.
[22:55]Chris Stillwell: Absolutely. I mean, there's I believe it was the year after me, the Finance Association started a mentorship program where not only they can help mentor MBA students that are getting into banking, but also undergrads that are getting into banking as well, because we also recruit analysts out of the undergrad population, and so they've partnered with the Rice Business Society and the undergrad school. We've also… You know, on the recruitment side, there's the IB Advisory Council where we work with the Career Development Office with Rice, and we help, kind of, set the rules every year.
We help advise them on what banks are looking for in terms of candidates, in terms of, like, the stats, GMAT score, stuff like that, we're looking at. But there's, I mean, there's so many ways to give back. So, it's been great.
[23:39]Brian Jackson: So, okay, you've got, you know, military consulting background, your MBA in pocket, you show up day one for your full-time job. What were you leaning on? What comes to mind of the skills that mattered and maybe the ones that you could have freshened up on?
[23:55]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the skills that were a plus going into the job was consulting experience, 100% helped me, especially PowerPoint skills, interfacing with clients, navigating just the corporate structure, super helpful. From the military, just having that leadership presence and working with, you know, no understanding how to manage analysts and manage people above you as well.
But obviously, there's a lot of unknowns, I think, in investment banking as well. Maybe this is the scary part where it's like there's so many details, and there's so many things that you don't know, like how companies are structured, how to value them. You know, like, especially, I don't come from an energy background either, so I remember when I was at Rice, I was always asking my, like, petroleum engineer friends questions about the energy industry and how it works.
And then day one, you step in investment banking. It's not like they're secretly saying, here's this class you're going to take for one week on energy. It's like, "No, it's, you got to," they're going to start throwing acronyms at you. You just got to learn. And then you get staffed on five things, and you're like, "Okay, I don't know where I am, but I'm going to figure this out."
So, I leaned on a lot of things that, I guess, soft skills to help me, and then I had to really hone in on the hard skills to, kind of, bring me up to speed. And it really is learning by firehose. But, you know, I think that people who are successful, they show that they can actually absorb the information, work hard, and meet the expectations of the bank.
[25:18]Brian Jackson: So, you're at Bank of America, you're in the Natural Resources Energy Transition Group. So, what does your role look like? What does your day-to-day, kind of, seem? I know it's not nine-to-five.
[25:28]Chris Stillwell: Yeah, and, you know, that's kind of the cool thing. That's why I maybe have chosen the three careers that I've had so far, and now investment banking as well. There is no defined day. Every day is different, you know, it's very dynamic. You kind of, you do know obviously what you're going to do, but, like, it can change in the blink of an eye, and I find that exciting.
I really would hate to do the exact same thing every day. It would be like Groundhog Day, but instead, you know, like even today, I'm on a sell-side right now, so we're helping sell a company, and we had a bunch of management presentations where we're presenting the company to these select potential buyers. And that's a very interesting experience, because I'm sitting literally at a table across from a CEO of another company and listening to questions he has about the company that we're selling.
And that's, like, a really interesting thing for me. And then there's other times where it's like you're just trying to figure out why this number on these two slides don't tie and why they're different. You know, it's like there's very different elements of the job. I mean, there's a lot of people skills as well. You know, I think I really liked in the military as well, you're, kind of, given a task and not always kind of a guardrail of how to get that task accomplished or, like, a roadmap to do it.
And in banking, it's, kind of, similar, and a lot of times you, kind of, have to extend your influence outside of your, like, chain of command, for lack of a better term. And you've got to talk to people across different product groups, across different elements, the bank to get things done. You know, and that's, kind of, exciting to me too, because you get to talk to different people, meet different people as well. But yeah. And then sometimes you're just in the model, just building in a financial model, all these different Excel backups, and then outputting those things into a PowerPoint slide to make it more presentation-friendly for clients.
It's kind of eye-opening, and it's, kind of, interesting to see what risk tolerance some companies have versus other companies. What… You know, in the energy industry, like if you're talking about upstream, like where do they want to drill? Do they want to exit? Do they want to stay? What price points are they really sensitive to in terms of, like, future operations? It's interesting.
[27:35]Brian Jackson: If you had to give advice to folks thinking about a pivot, what would you, kind of, give to them to do it successfully?
[27:42]Chris Stillwell: Yeah. I think doing your research is the number one thing. I think just having an assumption or just looking at something at a very high level, like I'll use banking just as an example, but, like, if you look and you, like, say, "Oh, banking, you know, they make good salary, they make good bonus, I want to get into that." But then you don't do the research to see what is actually required for the recruitment process. I think it's very defined. Consulting is also a very defined recruitment process.
You have to meet all these little tick marks. You have to dress appropriately, you have to coffee chat. You have to meet the right people. Then there are other industries, you know, that even, like, out of an MBA, like, for example, venture capital or even marketing, where those recruitment pipelines are not well-defined, and it's mostly about networking. And so, what I'm, I guess, behind what I'm saying is, like, just do your research and, like, really understand if you want to pivot into a certain industry, understand how, what you have to do to get there.
And the best way to do that is obviously looking online, but also, you know, going to the right school and then reaching out to alumni or reaching out to people who are interning in that field and understanding how they did it.
[28:44]Brian Jackson: That's great. And I guess the other thing I think about, you've seen leadership in the Army, global consulting, and now banking. Has your definition of leadership evolved through each of these?
[28:56]Chris Stillwell: That's a good question. There are certain people who can be leaders and are very good at being leaders. But being a good leader in the military might not translate to being a good leader at banking. And a lot of times, you actually see that, or you see, like, military officers leave the military and go into the corporate world and not be as successful. Because I really think you do need to tailor your leadership style to, one, the industry you're working in, and two, the people you're working with, you know, different ways of operating motivate people differently.
Like in the military, you could yell at somebody and hold them to a higher standard, and maybe they'll do it. But, like, if you yelled at somebody in like, you know, a marketing job, they probably would shut down, and, like, that'd be the end of it. You know, like, it really doesn't work the same. The leadership style is something that you have to adjust to the area you're working in.
[29:43]Brian Jackson: That's great, and I think it's so true. If you started yelling at me through a Teams Channel, I'm going to just, I'm going to hang up.
[29:49]Chris Stillwell: Yeah.
[29:49]Brian Jackson: We're not going to get very far. So, in all of this, I mean, I know you're a big golfer, you know, is there something that you do to stay grounded to perform at your best?
[30:01]Chris Stillwell: I mean, you definitely need to de-stress, of course, and you got to have that social interaction. This is just my opinion. So, like, golfing is one of my outlets to do that, get to be outside, get to be with friends, get to challenge myself in something that, you know, is outside of work. And sometimes it's very frustrating, and sometimes it's very rewarding when you hit a good shot. But just hanging out with friends, hanging out with family, is also important to me.
Working out, traveling, and seeing new places and new people, all great stuff for me. And then maybe occasionally binge-watching some TV when you have time.
[30:36]Brian Jackson: You ever hit a hole in one?
[30:40]Chris Stillwell: I wish. That's still in the cards for me. Hopefully one day.
[30:45]Brian Jackson: Okay. You've got a long career in golf ahead of you, so maybe it'll happen.
[30:48]Chris Stillwell: Yes.
[30:49]Brian Jackson: So, when you think of the next few years out, are there, like, specific challenges or opportunities that you're excited about, to take on?
[30:57]Chris Stillwell: The interesting thing about my career, even currently, there is an element to progression. You know, there is a defined path, and with each positions, your job changes completely. You know, you're still, obviously, have to do the basic skills of the job and understand how finance works and how energy works and whatever. But then VP, you start to blend client interaction and business development with, also, reviewing the work and making sure it gets done.
And managing director, it's, like, mostly building that business development, giving it strategic advice to clients. So, it is, kind of, exciting that, like, my life will always continue to change. It's not going to be, like, set in stone, I'm going to be in the same job forever, doing the exact same thing. So, that's always exciting for me.
[31:39]Brian Jackson: You pick the right field to grow into, and there's plenty of opportunity in the different levels that might be ahead of you.
[31:45]Chris Stillwell: Exactly.
[31:46]Brian Jackson: So, for anyone listening who's considering an MBA as a part of their career pivot trajectory, especially veterans or career switchers, what's one piece of guidance you'd want to leave them with?
[31:58]Chris Stillwell: I would say, you know, pick the program about plug and Rice. Hopefully, Rice is your program. They choose. But, you know, pick the program that makes the best sense for the career that you're choosing.
I didn't come from an energy background and I really learned so much about energy just taking these different classes at Rice, like geopolitics of energy or energy and transition, and going to refs as well. And, you know, I wouldn't have gotten that experience at maybe other schools.
[32:22]Brian Jackson: Well, Chris, first, thank you for your service. Really appreciate it. And also thank you for joining me on Owl Have You Know for sharing your story. This has just been a great conversation.
[32:32]Chris Stillwell: Yeah. No, it's been great. Thank you, Brian. I really appreciate, you know, being chosen and being on here as well. Thank you again.
[32:41]Brian Jackson: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Brian Jackson, and Maya Pomroy.
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