0:00] Scott: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are. 

Suman Khatiwada is the co-founder, chief technology officer, and board director at Syzygy Plasmonics. In his role as CTO, he leads the technology team in developing, scaling up, and integrating the company's core technologies, namely photocatalysts and fully electrified chemical reactors. He has built Syzygy's patent portfolio with more than a dozen patent families and several dozen trade secrets. As a co-founder and an integral part of the management team, Dr. Khatiwada has helped Syzygy raise three rounds of venture capital funding, win three government grants, and build a team of 100 employees and counting.

Dr. Khatiwada earned his PhD in material science and nanoengineering from Rice University and his bachelor's degree in physics from Morgan State University. In 2020, he was selected as one of the nation's brightest early-career engineers by the National Academies of Engineering's U.S. Frontiers of Engineering Program. Suman, welcome to the Owl Have You Know podcast. Excited to have you here. Thank you for joining us, my friend.

[01:17] Suman: Really excited to be here and have a conversation with you, Scott.

[01:20] Scott: So, I want you to just, kind of, share a little bit about your background. What, kind of, got you initially interested in physics, material science? And how has, kind of, that passion evolved for you over the years?

[01:33] Suman: Well, when I was a young person growing up in Nepal, I was pretty good in school. And being good in school, at that time, at least you were, kind of, pushed towards physics and maths and sciences in general because everybody wants you to be a doctor because that is a really good way of getting your family to well-being and a good reputation in the society and whatnot. So, that was, kind of, the start of the things.

I went to a high school that is, you would say, an equivalent of a math and science high school here in the U.S. in certain areas. So, it was very heavy on that side, but I had some really good teachers in that high school who made me enjoy science quite a bit. I loved the introductory physics course in high school. We were looking at a bicycle and looking at how, you know, physics-y the bicycle is all around and everything and all that.

So, I was like, yeah, this science makes me understand the world better. That was the starting of actually loving science and whatnot. And when I decided to not be a doctor and escape away and come to the U.S., I first started with thinking maybe I would do biology or, you know, in medicine or something anyway, but physics, the love of physics, took over.

So, I got a degree in physics. And as I was finishing my degree in physics in Baltimore, Maryland, the last couple of years, nanotechnology started becoming a thing. And Rice, being the birthplace of nanotechnology, was one of my target schools because I was like, "All right. If I'm going to go do graduate schoolwork, I might as well come and do it at one of the best places in the world."

[03:17] Scott: Can you share a little bit about arriving at Rice for the first time? I mean, you've obviously had some expectations and given where you wanted to go, like, take us back to that moment in that experience.

[03:28] Suman: So, first time I visited Rice was a campus visit. So, I had gotten accepted into the program. And this is February of 2007. I started my Ph.D. program August of 2008. So, campus visit, important thing. You're about to come into five to six years of your graduate life. So, I come here in February. And I came from Maryland. And it was nice and bright and sunny and pretty warm. And I was like, this is mid-February. And this is so nice.

And the campus is nice. There are trees. The buildings look good. The people are nice. I had more campus visits elsewhere in the middle and north of the country scheduled. I canceled all of that immediately after visiting Rice. I was like, "It's in Houston. I want to be in a metropolitan city. And the campus is good. The weather is amazing. So, I'll pick Rice."

I had a bias towards Rice anyway to begin with. And in terms of actual arrival, arrived, I think, one week before Hurricane Ike. So, I got a grand old welcome to Houston and Texas. I'd never been through a hurricane before that. And I hadn't bought my car yet. It was a rough four days or so out of my apartment, not knowing what I've gotten myself into.

[04:46] Scott: In your time at Rice, you were there for a number of years pursuing your Ph.D., I'm interested in this transition then to, kind of, this entrepreneurial mindset because you created Big Delta Systems. When did, kind of, entrepreneurship as a thread start to show up? And how did you start to, kind of, integrate those things, kind of, this deep science with entrepreneurship?

[05:07] Suman: Yeah. And there's actually, there's actually a story to that. A lot of that has to do with a few people and institutions at Rice. I was a graduate student, second year or so. So, the first person was my friend, Luke Boyer, who was in the same Ph.D. program as I was. And he's like, "Let's see what they are teaching elsewhere in other schools outside of material science and all that." And he said, "Oh, let's check out the MBA classes, what's going on."

And we started looking into it. And there were a few classes he and I were both interested in. And went and came and spoke to our advisor, Dr. Enrique Barrera, and he allowed us to take a few MBA classes. The course was called Technology Entrepreneurship at that time, being taught by Tom Kraft. And Tom became a mentor, and he is one to this day.

And this is now fall of 2011 we're talking about, just going through that class, being in a group of PhD and MBA students, and learning what a company formation means. As you know, in the class, they give you a patent, and you build a company around it and all that. All that was fascinating to me. We are taking this core patented science-y document and creating a company out of that. That was fascinating to me.

With that, I started getting involved with Rice Alliance, started volunteering for Rice Business Plan Competition. And this is, again, 2011 is the beginning of that, got selected and went on the Ignite Entrepreneurship trip with RCEL and Rice Alliance. And that year, we went to Boston, those three days of immersive experience, all that. So, all this culminated into me looking inward. And, like, I'm not necessarily the best scientist here, far from it.

And I like people. I like talking about science. I like talking about technology. I like engaging with people. Maybe this is something I need to look at as the thing I want to do in life, like, looking at hard science and starting a company out of that. So, started getting engaged with two of my other friends, Charudatta Galande and Neelam Singh, in the same department with Professor Ajayan.

We started working on a battery idea and filed a couple of patents and actually started that Big Delta Systems company. So, a lot of people and resources and the things that Rice University provided and me seeking for something different led to, like, you know, me wanting to start companies. And here we are today.

[07:44] Scott: Seems like a pretty, kind of, pivotal moment or series of moments as you're, kind of, discovering, like, "Hey, this is a way for me to deploy my skill set and my interests."

[07:54] Suman: Yeah. If there was no Rice Alliance, I don't think I would have been an entrepreneur. If there was no Tom Kraft in that journey, I don't think I would have been an entrepreneur. If my advisor had not allowed me to take those classes, Dr. Barrera, I would not have been an entrepreneur. And even my friend, Luke Boyer, without him nudging me along with himself, like, I don't think I would have... you know.

So, I think your surroundings and environment that you are in play a large role. You might want to do something, but being nudged, or having access to certain things, I think, play a big part. And Rice, obviously, does a really good job. And now, with the Ion and Liu Idea Lab, it's, I think, even better for someone within the Rice ecosystem wanting to be an entrepreneur and start companies.

[08:44] Scott: Kind of, lower the friction of that discovery process. Are there, sort of, things in the, sort of, experiences or learnings that you still draw back on from those early Big Delta Systems days that you, kind of, wake up in your day job today as you're scaling a bigger and bigger company, like, that you draw back on?

[09:04] Suman: Yeah. And mostly, like, reflecting on, like, how naive I was. And we were, like, you know, trying to be first-time entrepreneurs, founders, with no money, or immigration status that allows you to work freely, for example. We're on student visas, right? So, a lot of things that I find myself drawing on are the same things that are, like, key to who I think I am as a person.

Always being good with people, being eager about other people, learning from their experiences, you know, treating everyone equally. You never know who is going to, you know, help you in what way, whenever in life. So, being people-centric in my outlook of life, I learned from that early engagement during my graduate school, basically, I think, still holds to the day as we've now built a 120-person company.

[09:56] Scott: Love that. I want to ask you a couple of questions about Syzygy Plasmonics. And some of these questions, you've probably heard a lot, but I think for our audience, you know, they're learning for the first time. And so, wanted you to, sort of, share a little bit about the founding story of Syzygy. Like, what was, kind of, some of that initial spark? What led to it? What is Syzygy, kind of, in simple terms? Like, what does the company do? And why the name? If you could just take us through a little bit.

[10:27] Suman: I will touch on what your latter half of the question, and then I'll go into the founding story. Syzygy Plasmonics is the company's name. The word syzygy, as an English word, means alignment of three cosmic bodies in space. Whenever you have an eclipse, that is a syzygy moment. So, we recently had a solar eclipse. We celebrated it by going to Driftwood, Texas, and enjoying the eclipse as a company all together, and all that.

So, the name came about because we had a tagline: Energy, Technology, Sustainability. And we wanted a real name for our company, and had just come back from experiencing total solar eclipse in Nashville in 2017. And so, like, all the astronomy-related things were, like, you know, fresh in my mind. And we were sat at Trevor's old house in his kitchen, drinking a beer.

[11:20] Scott: This is Trevor Best.

[11:21] Suman: Yeah, Trevor Best, my co-founder and CEO. Yeah. I googled, “English word with three Ys,” to tie in the energy, technology, and sustainability. And the syzygy word came up. And I'm like, "What is this word?" Myself. Like, the same look that hundreds of people have now given me since then. Went to dictionary.com and put on that phonetics thing. And it said Syzygy. And we noodled on it. And we talked about what it would be.

And then we came back to it after an hour and decided to name it. And plasmonics is the foundational science that the technology is based out of. So, we named it Syzygy Plasmonics. And in many ways, now, it's become synonymous with our... Like, we could not change our name anymore. Once people know the word, they know who we are and remember us and all that.

We did get quite a bit of flak from early-day advisors, mentors, on the marketability aspect of the name, but we always told ourselves it's going to be a B2B, kind of, company, you know. Every person does not need to memorize its name. So, we should be okay. But energy, technology, sustainability is core to who we are as a company and the reason why we started this company in the first place.

It gives us a cultural foundation to build the overall culture of the company. So, we stuck to it. The way we started this company has its origins at Baker Hughes. So, I was working at Baker Hughes at that time, and so was Trevor Best, my co-founder. And he and I started looking at many different technologies to assess and provide potential business opportunities for Baker Hughes to start having the company or nudge the company towards doing things on decarbonization, sustainability, that aspect.

We were on that path for about a year and a half while we were still at Baker Hughes. It all started with having Thursday afternoon get-togethers. So, we would accumulate like-minded fairly young folks to meet at Brick House Tavern on 290. And there were a few rules. You talk about energy and what we're reading, new things on energy. And nobody's allowed to complain about their jobs. And we'll just have this core group of people come in.

And from that, Trevor and I became close because we had our same, kind of, goals in life, like, try to do something bigger than ourselves, make this world a better place, you know, find something to do together and all that. So, him and I started working. Towards the end, we presented one business idea to the C-suite, but it was during rough times for Baker Hughes. It was in the process of being overtaken, first, Halliburton, and then GE Oil Gas.

And it was oil and gas downturn, so it was not the right time. So, we decided that we're going to look for technologies outside. And if we find something, we'll quit our jobs and start our own company. Him and I created a framework. We call it TMI, Technology Market Impact. And we had our own sets of questions. So, you know, we'd go and scout, I would go and scout, news and media coming out of top research universities in the U.S., Rice included.

I would do my own analysis. And if it looked good, I would bring it to Trevor. We would work every Saturday. So, I would go and wake him up at Saturday morning at 8:00 AM in his house. And we would walk to Empire Cafe or Agora. He used to live around there. And by the time we had a little bit of breakfast and some coffee, he would wake up. And then we would work through the day until about 2:30, 3:00, and give each other homework.

We would work on our own every evening. We still have our day jobs, right? On, like, you know, whatever we see, whatever we're seeing and all that. So, some key important things happened. We learned how to work with each other. We started building trust and credibility among each other. Also, we were, you know, in it, right? Every Saturday, we were working. And every evening, we're working on our own and all that.

So, there was no doubt out of the bat that him or I would not work out as each other's co-founders and all that. And to this day, that kind of relationship, knowing how to work with each other, each other's strengths and weaknesses, and knowing that we are both in it, I think, is one of the key reasons for how fast we've been able to bring Syzygy up while developing a technology from scratch.

[15:36] Scott: In a bunch of ways, like, you and Trevor didn't invent the technology. You had just built a framework. It's almost like a joint venture, in some ways, between the business entity and partnership that you and Trevor had created. And the technology that as it came together, that's a path for entrepreneurship.

[15:55] Suman: One thing there was, though, was we knew the catalyst was good, but we did not have a reactor. So, we knew we had to invent the reactor technology. So, the big leap of faith on, like, in ourselves, like, between him and I and the team that we put together, we'd be able to invent this reactor that would be able to take advantage of all the amazing characteristics of this catalyst. So, that was the big unknown risk that we took on technology.

[16:25] Scott: Can you talk a little bit about just, sort of, like, what the catalyst and the reactor, what do they do? Where does it fit in the economy? Like, what's the ins and outs?

[16:33] Suman: I realized I didn't answer one part of your question on what does Syzygy do. So, our company is a developer of a fully electric chemical reactor. So, if you think colloquially what Tesla has done for transportation, our technology does the same thing for factories and plants that make chemicals, fuels, and fertilizers. So, you know, refineries, methanol plants, other chemical plants, they all run pretty much under the same principle.

They have a chemical reactor that is power, that gets energy from burning of coal and/or natural gas. So, our technology replaces the combustion of coal and natural gas with input electricity. So, the big gains here is, yeah, it is an electrification play. And that has a lot of operational benefits to how a plant is run and everything. But also, if the carbon intensity of the input electricity is low, then your entire process is low carbon.

So, if you have a chemical process where you have sustainable or from renewable resources feedstock, and you use our reactor with low-carbon intensity electricity, then the chemical fuel or fertilizer that you make on the back end has very low or negative carbon intensity.

So, our aim with the company is to provide this technology and deploy it for many different market verticals, from production of hydrogen to production of sustainable aviation fuel, e-diesel, making butadiene for rubbers, making ethylene, all of those verticals, and start decarbonizing the way those chemicals, fuels and fertilizers work. And it goes with the ethos that we cannot change the way we live anymore in this world, right?

Our way of life is now our way of life. So, our technology, we believe, has a very sustainable pathway to still enjoy modern life that has been built with conventional petroleum products, these chemical fuels and fertilizers, but in a more sustainable way that we don't have to lose our modern way of life. And that's, overall, the goal. And in doing so, we bring to this world a tool that is capable of fighting climate change by reducing overall carbon footprint of these chemical manufacturers.

[18:57] Scott: And it's incredibly hard to decarbonize part of the economy, right? Chemical-manufacturing-heavy industry, these are things that have unique power requirements, consistency, reliability. And, you know, you can't break the laws of physics and chemistry on these pathways. Like, how do you, how do you make them less energy intensive and et cetera. So, super cool.

As your role as it's, like, evolved, what are, kind of, your day-to-day responsibilities now as CTO? And how do you, kind of, balance the technical development path with the strategy and leadership component?

[19:31] Suman: Yeah. In many ways, it's not changed as much because I've always been a member of the board of directors. I've always been involved in... Trevor and I make most of the big decisions together. The frequency of touch points is different now as we understand each other more.

It's not the same as before, but I've always had the responsibility to contribute through decision-making strategy and all that in addition to leading the technology development. What has changed now, though, especially in the last year, is we have matured our technology on the three process pathways and are ready to go to market.

And this change from a R&D-only organization to a product organization, so the elevation of my own professionalism has become a little bit different, but I also have more help. So, I have an incredible team, of course, in my technology team. I have three vice presidents, one in research, one in product development, one in engineering. So, all of them are my pillars that help me not get stuck in the weeds so I can do more things.

Trevor and I are still pretty good, and probably the two best salespeople in our company, right? So, as we are educating the world about the merits of our technology and the winning demo plan projects and all that, my engagement is essential in a lot of those, right? So, in a high-level sense, it's not changed, but we have become a different company every six months since our formation.

And starting to run the company since February, 2018, every six months, we become a different company. So, yeah. So, we have found ourselves challenging ourselves and also each other, and I say that this is for Trevor and I mainly, to become the executive that the company needs you to be right now.

And sometimes, I have to challenge him. Sometimes, he has to challenge me. But one of the reasons we've been good at scaling and maintaining, like, extremely high retention and all that is we don't attack each other. We attack our ideas. And at the end of it, we are always one voice and working towards one goal and are able to bring everyone in the company together towards it as well.

[21:49] Scott: It's clear that you, guys, are doing that well in terms of the funding that you've attracted, the talent that you've attracted. Like, all of those things, I think, is really exciting. I wanted to go off on, like, a little tangent, if I could, to get your thoughts. Like, commercializing university technology is crazy hard, universities and tech transfer offices and all these things.

So, I wanted to maybe just get your thoughts on how did this one work when so many others, like, struggle? Were there some things that you felt like were just serendipitous or that were just foundational to the TMI model that you and Trevor built? Just, kind of, curious as a, kind of, an aside.

[22:26] Suman: Yeah. Before I start talking about, you know, Rice and our stuff and all that, I think I want to establish this, right? Startups and university administration, they usually live in two different universes. So, they don't speak the same language. The need for speed is not the same, right? It's different time scales and all that. And that is true for any startup coming out of any university and all that. And most universities don't do this relationship well at all.

And this is me not just, you know, hypothesizing, but I've spoken to a lot of fellow founders in similar, kind of, companies over the last six, seven years and all that. So, this is a pain point for everyone. For us, a lot of this was because Trevor and I were so methodical on our approach, even though we were naive and such, but we're still methodical. We knew what we needed to do. I had experience writing a couple of patents within Rice University.

While doing that, got engaged with Rice OTT. I understood how they worked. And there was this gentleman named Ernie Davis. He was very helpful in educating a little bit more to us and all that. So, I understood the patenting process and what it meant. At Baker Hughes, I had written quite a few patents as well on the project that I was working on inside there.

So, like, understanding patenting and then understanding the university setting, I was there for five and a half years, right, was key for us to know where to push and who to go talk to and why and when to listen and when to tell, you know. Those kinds of things were there, luckily, for us.

And we were methodical on our approach. The other thing that was foundational to the success was the buy-in from the two professors, Naomi Halas and Peter Nordlander. Once they were brought in to us as a team, Trevor and I, and this project for them, they threw their weight behind us. And they're like, "Okay. This is how we're going to do it. I think this technology needs to go out to the world. And you, guys, are the ones to go make this happen."

[24:32] Scott: What's clear is it doesn't happen on its own, you know. The incentives have to be there, the motivation and the mentality around it. And so, creating the right fertile ground and circumstances for those things to, kind of, happen, it does, it takes time. There's, kind of, this weight of incumbency on this. The cultural approach, that takes time to overcome.

[24:52] Suman: That is especially true. And you know this, Scott, from your own, you know, day job, is for hard science-based technologies that need to be developed and spun out and become companies, it is even more important to have that support structure in place. And without that, it's not going to happen. Like, you know, one person might want to make it happen, and they might be able to, but it will not be a norm. It will be just a one-off without a structure being put in place by the university.

[25:23] Scott: That's not a nominal, sort of, part of the journey. There's some really big steps to be taken. And love that you, guys, are catalyzing that, pun intended, for the community. I think that that's really quite exciting. Entrepreneurship's crazy hard. You've been at this for a bunch of years.

Like, do you have any, like, hobbies or interests or do you do anything, sort of, on the weekend now that you and Trevor aren't burning your weekends thinking about... I mean, maybe that's all you're doing, but anything you do...

[25:51] Suman: Early on, we decided, within our first year of founding the company, that he and I were not going to hang out outside of the work hours. No, I mean, it's not like, you know, we'll never hang out, kind of, thing, but just to hang out because him and I could not switch off. So, to save, to save each other from ourselves, we decided not to.

And then, like, obviously, that's not always true because we actually like each other and are friends, you know, and all that, but we made an intentional decision that, like, this separation and not talking about work or not feeling the urge to talk about work 24/7 is important because of the fact that it is so hard, and all that. But I love people, so you can't take me away from people.

So, my hobbies goes, like, a lot of that is just, you know, catching up with my friends, grabbing a drink, grabbing dinner, going on a walk with them, talk about stuff, be on the phone with them for 15 minutes, talking, catching up. That's a big part of what I like to do. I am less keen on business dinners anymore, and much more keen on family or friends dinners and stuff like that. I also like to cook as much as possible.

So, probably two, three times a week, I cook, on average, but, you know, something simple, something that does not take more than 30, 45 minutes. I like to eat dinner at home with my wife. We love hanging out in the evening, most of the time talking about her work because I don't want to just talk about mine during that happening, but just talking about life, catching up on everything, and all that. So, two, three times a week, I cook.

That is, like, actually very calming to me. I used to, every weekend, until about four years ago, watch soccer, English Premier League, during the season, every Saturday and Sunday mornings. I haven't watched a full game live in a couple of years now, but I do whenever I get time, I watch this, you know, YouTube highlights to keep in touch with my team's progress, Manchester United.

But in terms of just hobbies, like, these days, especially as this very hard journey of entrepreneurship has been happening as we're building the company, just being on my phone and reading the news or reading a simple book. The book I'm reading right now is called Climate Capitalism by Akshat Rathi. This recently came out and all that.

So, I like to read books like that to see what people are talking about, the world, the climate, and what are the things that we can do. I like that book specifically because he talks a lot about, you know, success stories on climate-based technologies around the world, and which is not like many others which are focused on doom and gloom. My wife makes fun of me, but I relax by just reading articles on my phone.

And she's like, "You're still stimulating your mind." And I'm like, but I feel, I feel relaxed because I have this innate need for learning about the world in general. She caught me the other day. I was reading about South Africa, I think, the economy there right now. And she's like, "Why are you reading about the South African economy?"

And I'm like, "It's fascinating what's going on in there." So, I was reading articles on it. And she's like, "But you were supposed to relax." And I'm like, "I am relaxed. Like, I feel, I feel good." And her and I like to go on walks whenever it's not too hot or has too many mosquitoes outside in Houston.

[29:15] Scott: Thank you for sharing that because I think the entrepreneurial community, right, like, it's not an easy thing to start, let alone run and scale a company, but small things, it's around that consistency. Like, if I were to put words in your mouth, like, just to have a little bit of a disconnect, focus on something else, whether it's brief, to, sort of, keep yourself focused.

[29:35] Suman: No, I mean, you hit the nail in the head. And even a bigger problem is actually glorification of entrepreneurs and founders and expectations that, yeah, you will do anything and everything in your capacity to make this happen, which is true. It should be that way.

You're using other people's money to try to do something and make something happen to create a business, but that should not mean that you are also expected not to sleep or have a family and all that, right? But a lot of entrepreneurs actually talk about how much they work, how busy they are, and all that as a matter of pride.

But what does that do, and I've seen in quite a few of the founders, is that means that you're telling yourself that you're not going to take care of yourself and your loved ones around you, and which is the recipe for bad health, bad cognitive state, all that, right, burnout, all of that. So, if you're burned out, you can't do well for the company. So, you need to balance it out. And Trevor and I have... it's been hard for us to learn that.

And we're doing better and better as we are, you know, growing up to be an entrepreneur, and all that, but that's a real thing, especially for founders. And most of the times, like, founders can only talk about this with other founders. That's their only safe space, if you will. But this is a real thing. And I always welcome my other founders in other companies to talk about this kind of stuff.

[31:02] Scott: Thank you for exploring that with me-

[31:04] Suman: Absolutely.

[31:04] Scott: ... because I do, I do think it's so important. It's a unique experience and challenge set that many people mistakenly think that they have, like, alignment to being a founder of a company. That founder title is quite unique.

And, you know, if you're in a big corporate job or whatever, you feel like you're busy, et cetera, but it's a different, kind of, pressure when you've taken other people's money and you've got other people's employment on your mind and all of those things. So, I have a huge respect for what it is you, guys, are doing.

[31:35] Suman: I don't know if there are harder jobs, especially if you care. If you're an entrepreneur, founder of a company, and you have dozens of people and you care, this job is very, very hard. And it's difficult to explain to people. It sounds almost like there's not many adjectives to use to define how difficult it is because you're always playing 4D chess across all dimensions of your company, your market you're playing in, all of that, at all times.

[32:07] Scott: Exactly. Well, as we, kind of, wrap up here, it's important for us to... I want to talk about the Rice Business Advanced Management Program, their collaboration with the Leadership Academy in Nepal. This is where you and I spent some time last year, kind of, had this conversation in real life.

So, I wanted to talk about of your position as, like, a successful Nepali entrepreneur, how has it allowed you to, kind of, give back to your home country, and, kind of, the impact that you're just thinking about and hoping for in that topic broadly as they come here to go through that experience, et cetera.

[32:40] Suman: I was born and raised in Nepal. Nepal being one of the poorest countries in the world, I have that sense of responsibility for everything I do in life, find ways to give back. And the unfortunate part is we just talked about how difficult and engaging this job is. I feel bad that I'm not able to give as much time or even thinking towards many different things that I would like to. But that doesn't mean that I don't do some stuff.

When the time is right, I will hopefully be able to do a lot more, but right now, I do a few things. There's this organization called The Great Nepali Diaspora (TGND). They run a startup studio in there with, you know, Nepali and other founders. And I've been a mentor for the first two years of their existence, and still mentoring two or three startups that have come out of the two cohorts.

In there, they have started a Houston chapter of that. So, that's one, continuous one, that goes throughout the year. And the other one you talked about here is the Leadership Academy of Nepal, partnership with Rice University, the School of Business. Michael Koenig has done an incredible job of putting this together at Rice. And I think they have been having the executive leaders from Nepal here for about three or four years now.

And every year, if I'm in town, I've made time to come and speak to them. And last year was you and I doing a fireside chat and taking questions from these executives from Nepal. Big thing is they're not coming here with an expectation of seeing a Nepali entrepreneur here doing this, kind of, venture-capital-backed side, but for them to see that different aspect.

What I have heard from them is the sense of pride, and then that translates into wanting to do more within their organization and being a leader that is a little different and all that. And for me, me spending a couple of hours with them here at Rice and that special event is me giving it back twice, right, in a, in a double way. One is to Rice, and one is to my fellow countrymen from back home.

And if I help a few of them get something out of it positive by my interaction there, it's a, it's a big win-win for me. Later in life, if I'm able to amass a lot of influence, people, and hopefully some money, and all that, I do plan to do something direct with a lot of things in Nepal. I have, you know, that cooking on the back of my mind at all times, but right now, it's all Syzygy.

[35:14] Scott: No, exactly. Well, Suman, appreciate everything that you're doing. I mean, what you guys are doing is an inspiration for the Houston story, for the Rice story, for Nepal, all these things that are going on. And so, it's just a privilege to be here with you today. Thanks, again, for coming on the show.

[35:30] Suman: Absolutely. Thank you, Scott. You're amazing.

[35:34] Scott: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Scott Gale, and Maya Pomroy.