[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Up Next series, where faculty researchers and alumni weigh in on the trends currently shaping the world of business.

[00:13] Maya: So, today on Owl Have You Know, we have two phenomenal guests. And I just wanted to thank you both for taking time out of your busy schedules to talk with us today. Dean Peter Rodriguez, the dean of the Jones School of Business, and Alison Weaver, the founding executive director of Rice University's Moody Center for the Arts. What was interesting when I was doing some background research on both of you is, Peter, you came in 2016-

[00:42] Peter: Right.

[00:42] Maya: ... right after Alison. And you both...

[00:43] Peter: We're old timers now, by the way, at Rice.

[00:47] Maya: Well, you've accomplished quite a lot in a very short, actually, period of time. And you also are Princeton grads. Were you there at the same time?

[00:56] Peter: I don't know. So, I graduated in '98, but I was also there in the early '90s as well for a short period. I took a leave of absence in between master's and PhD.

[01:05] Alison: And I graduated from the undergraduate program in 1993. So, we may not have overlapped-

[01:09] Peter: It could have been.

[01:09] Alison: ... in terms of our...

[01:13] Peter: If you took ECON I or something-

[01:12] Alison: Yeah.

[01:12] Peter: ... I don't know if you had, but there might have been a moment where I was precepting.

[01:19] Alison: It could have been, it could have been. I don't remember, but it's a great-

[01:23] Peter: It was.

[01:23] Alison: ... university. And so, it was, like-

[01:26] Peter: Transformational-

[01:26] Alison: ... inspirational.

[01:27] Peter: ... experience for me, too.

[01:28] Maya: Well, we're thrilled to have you both here at Rice and what a, what a great opportunity to have you collaborating together. So, Dean Rodriguez, when you came here, you really have transformed the Jones School in so many ways. You've doubled enrollment. You've increased the tenured faculty. You've really deliberately wanted to diversify the student body. You started an undergraduate business program.

Phenomenal, and on so many different levels. And one of the things that is exceptionally unique, in my opinion, is that you recognize the need to integrate art within the business school and you understood the importance of art and of students, faculty, staff, visitors, everybody being immersed in arts. So, I want to start with you, and ask you, you know, why did you choose to do this, specifically for the business school?

[02:34] Peter: Well, thank you. It's a good question. You know, arriving in 2016, I remember thinking that I was very fortunate that Rice had these incredible strategic foundations for a business school. You had an exquisite university, well-earned reputation for rigor and academic standards.

And then Houston really demanded, you know, a school that could meet its global scale and reach. Very cosmopolitan place, but also a large commercial space. So, growth was in the offing. I think my first reaction on the inside, the facilities are wonderful but there was a lack of life and energy on the inside.

[03:13] Alison: It was stark. It was just a few photos.

[03:14] Peter: It was a bit stark. I thought it felt unfinished, frankly. And I don't think you were activated mentally coming into the space unless you were in a classroom. So, outside of the rooms, without people in them, it was more of a pass-through building, I felt like, and I don't think that it really was congruent with the rest of the university and what you felt outside.

And in a funny way, outside, because of the beauty of the campus and the nature, I think you felt really awake as you were in an academic environment, but inside, there was a missing element. And a lot of what we did was to try to address that.

And it was apparent that we really didn't have any intentional art, for the most part, in the building that really fit with the rest of the vision for the energy in the building. And so, that was part of the initial thought was, "What can we do about that?" And very quickly, people told me about Alison, and it was obvious she was doing a lot in building this wonderful, incredible space, too.

[04:15] Maya: So, Alison. So, you came from New York. You were at the Guggenheim. And really, world-renowned for all of the work that you've done of really bringing art to the forefront of the world. So, tell me what brought you to Rice from New York, because that's, you know, kind of, a long way to come from New York to Houston. And tell me about how you've been cultivating the relationship with, with Peter.

[04:41] Alison: Well, thank you. And thank you for having me today. I'm always delighted to talk about art and its intersections with business and with other fields. And that was what, in fact, drew me to return to Houston. I'm a native Houstonian. In fact, both my parents went to Rice. So, in some ways, it was a return to an earlier phase.

But I think also seeing the potential, just as Peter said, of entering a place like Rice and like Houston that have so much both already there that is active and exciting and innovative, but also the potential to bring that forward and invite both our student and faculty community on campus and our public community off campus to come together and be inspired by, in my case, the intersection of art and ideas. So, I had the opportunity to come to Rice to open the Moody Center for the Arts, which is where we are now. And so...

[05:38] Maya: Beautiful building, by the way.

[05:40] Alison: It's a fantastic building. We were fortunate to be able to build it here on Rice campus with the architect, Michael Maltzan, with, really, the goal of creating a platform, if you will, for the intersection of art and ideas.

And I like to say that the Moody isn't restricted just to the building, but it really goes beyond the physical walls to the campus and even the city to think about the ways in which arts can inspire us to think differently or to at least maybe torque our vision slightly and so that we think about innovative approaches to problems that we're facing in our world and, in our case, in our academic disciplines.

[06:20] Maya: And also, to really spark thinking outside of the box, you know. I mean, whenever you go to an exhibition in a museum, you walk out changed, you know. And so, that's something that art has this powerful impact on everybody. And the fact that Rice really wanted to focus on that says a lot about the school. And the fact that you really wanted to focus that-

[06:48] Peter: Oh, sure.

[06:49] Maya: ... in the business school says a lot about your understanding of the importance of it.

[06:54] Peter: Yeah. I think in particular, you know, if you think about where organizations create value, it's through the creative process, right? You have to find solutions to complex problems in order to create value in the world.

And that's less about being cloistered away and, you know, sharpening your pencil and green eye shade on doing work than it is about trying to work together and opening your mind to things that haven't been done before in ways of proceeding.

And so, that's what we really want our students to think about is how do they, how do they open their minds and use their very best of all that they know to make change happen and to make progress in the directions we want. So, whether it's medicine or the energy transition or tech, creativity is at the heart of everything businesses need to do. And we needed a way to live that a bit more than we were living at the time.

[07:44] Maya: So, let's talk about the curating process. So, currently, there are 19 installations, 17 different artists, most of whom are women. And I'd like to talk about that. So, how do you choose the installations? How do you choose the artists? Is there a, you know, process that artists go through if they're interested in being a part of Rice University's Public Art Initiative?

[08:11] Alison: Well, we really start, and certainly in the case of the Jones School, with what would be appropriate for the mission of the school, and as Peter has articulated today and in other settings, how can artists help us think creatively about problem solving, about innovation and new ideas, and the world at large.

And I think we started by looking at the building renovation and identifying a few of the key spaces. So, the first space we identified was the atrium outside of the auditorium, which is certainly a highly trafficked area.

[08:49] Maya: I love that piece, by the way. When I came to visit Rice...

[08:50] Peter: It's awesome. Everybody loves it.

[08:51] Maya: Yes. When I came to visit Rice, it was right at the... well, during the renovations. And I just remember walking in and just looking up. And just, I just stopped in my tracks, so.

[09:01] Alison: Well, and I think that's a great example. So, that is a work by Pae White, an American artist, and it's titled Triple Virgo. And we invited Pae to come to campus from her home in California and to meet with Peter and learn about the ambition for the school and the mission of the place and observe the community in action and really the energy and the diversity of the student body and really thinking globally as Peter speaks about and as many of the students are inspired both from by their own background and by their future careers. So, she created a work that she would describe as a globe in flux. So, it is a suspended piece.

[09:39] Maya: I was going to ask you to-

[09:40] Alison: Yeah.

[09:40] Maya: ... describe it for those that-

[09:41] Alison: There are...

[09:41] Maya: ... don't know.

[09:42] Alison: For those of you who haven't been there yet, I hope you will visit, but it consists of 365 strands of suspended elements, each of which is individually designed. So, each element of the piece, it has a different pattern on the bottom and on the top. So, it appears differently both as you circumambulate the atrium but also as you look above from the second floor onto it and as the light hits.

And when the artist speaks about it, I think she was very taken with Peter's description of the need to inspire global leadership and to think broadly, both about our own communities, but how we interact with the bigger world. And ideally, that world is one that is ever changing. We know that from how we're living today. But also, it's exciting and in that change is inspiration.

It's not change that's necessarily always challenging or it can be exciting and inspiring and one that intrigues you enough to want to go out and be part of it. So, I think it's a great example of how an artist can speak to the mission of a place, but certainly in their own vocabulary.

And Pae White's an artist who has worked in this format before, has certainly done other suspended pieces. And of course, there's the practical side of having a hanging work allows us to still use the building in that active way that enables the conferences and classes that we host at Rice.

[11:10] Maya: It reminds me of a magnificent chandelier almost-

[11:14] Peter: Yeah.

[11:15] Maya: ... and it, sort of, rains down on you. And I have lots of photos with my cohort in front of that piece because it's breathtaking. And so, tell me about the other ones that are in the building.

[11:29] Alison: Well, I think it travels on from there to... We also thought both about the mission of the Jones School but also about its context at Rice. So, at Rice University, we have a wonderful public art collection. And one of the centerpieces of that is our James Turrell Skyspace. It's called Twilight Epiphany. And it's just adjacent to McNair Hall. So, it's literally right next door to this collection.

And we wanted to create a dialogue in a physical space between the James Turrell work and other works in the collection and what's happening inside McNair Hall. So, you'll notice that many of the works we have are features one can describe as having our light, space, and geometric abstraction. So, works on the ground floor, for example, by Spencer Finch and Jose Dávila, which are right next to Audrey's Coffee Shop.

They both are very intentionally selected for their interest in light. Spencer Finch's work called Goldberg Variations responds to both light and music in the next-door music school. Jose Dávila's work is a homage to the American artist, Dan Flavin, who worked with fluorescent light bulbs.

So, he photographs these light bulbs and excises them from his own work and then mounts that in a box that's almost sculptural. So, there's a conversation that is going on around some of the formal qualities that we have on campus that complement, I think, the, kind of, ideational qualities that we've talked about.

[13:05] Maya: And so, tell me about the artists that were selected and how that process is done.

[13:08] Alison: Well, we went into it wanting to reflect the diversity of voices at both the Jones School and their students and faculty and staff, but also more broadly, in Houston, we're one of the most diverse cities in the country and wanting those artistic conversations to be stemming from around the world.

So, we have, you know, Jose Dávila is from Mexico. We have around-the-corner artists like Rana Begum, born in Bangladesh, or Gabriela Hasper is from Argentina, or, you know, Carmen Herrera is from Cuba. We try to...

[13:47] Peter: And she's 100 years old, right?

[13:48] Alison: She is 100 years old.

[13:49] Maya: I'm sorry, what?

[13:50] Alison: She recently passed away.

[13:50] Maya: Wait, back up. So, she was 100 years old when she passed away?

[13:56] Alison: I think 101 just this last year. A fantastic artist from Cuba, who worked on her own, really didn't achieve recognition until much later in her life as a professional artist. And I think we hope inspiration for students in many ways.

If you look at the life of an artist like Carmen Herrera, I think many could take inspiration to pursue your vision. You know, she very single handedly and very in a focused manner pursued her vision for many years. And it ultimately was rewarded. You know, starting a business is hard work and you often have to-

[14:38] Peter: Right.

[14:38] Alison: ... pursue your vision.

[14:41] Maya: Like an executive MBA, right?

[14:42] Peter: Could be like that in a sense, right?

[14:43] Maya: Like, the executive MBA is like, "It's never too late."

[14:45] Peter: There are many second acts and third acts in life. I do want to highlight one thing that comes through when Alison speaks is just how much she and her team and all the artists listened to and thought about a little bit of what we were saying about the school.

It wasn't just what would, what would look nice or what do we have? It was, what are you here for? What are you trying to achieve? What's this about? So, early on, I remember in the conversations with Pae White, we talked a little bit about how we had started a global field experience for every student in the school for quire.

[15:17] Maya: You started that.

[15:18] Peter: We did. Yes, we did.

[15:20] Maya: Let's give credit.

[15:20] Peter: I did. And the argument was that, one, it reflected what Houston was as a very global city and you have everything reflected here. You can see world history and the immigrant flows that come through.

But also, just that we felt like a truly capable leader had to be versed in what was happening in and around the world, and that we always wanted people to, sort of, we say, explore their boundary conditions, test your ideas, and try to understand if they will work in different contexts.

And of course, they don't always work that way. What you know about how a business, or an organization, operates here may translate in part, but certainly not in full, to different conditions around the world. And thinking about the whole world that way was opening up the lens and the aperture of the school, I should say, to that.

So, if you think about Triple Virgo and what it does, it's an incredible piece in many ways, but it's perfect manifestation of, kind of, that idea. And I always liked that no matter where you look, it's different. It seems organized. It seems chaotic. It seems like one thing. It seems like many things. Everything seems unique. Everything seems like it's part of one. It's beautiful in that way. And it was, like, good art. It changes for you.

[16:31] Maya: Like Kandinsky, where you have chaos and-

[16:33] Peter: That's right.

[16:34] Maya: ... calm.

[16:35] Peter: That's right, that's right. Very much like that. And you can feel that throughout as it came together each time Alison and her team spoke to us, or spoke to me, there was incredible understanding of what we were trying to accomplish.

It's the same with the diversity of the artists, I think, where we spoke about how we really wanted to be a school that spoke to and included everyone. So, if you think about even the way it comes out and in the ways we talk about the school, that you belong here. There is something in the composition of the set of artists that have contributed to the school that helped us deliver that message.

[17:08] Maya: And also, the symbiotic relationship between business and art, because they're not separate, right? And I think that a lot of times, people think that they are, but they're not.

[17:18] Alison: And I love hearing you say that because, I, myself, I'm MBA graduate as well, and I think...

[17:26] Peter: Which helps so much. So, you can't imagine the level of she gets it, that you have-

[17:32] Alison: Oh, she gets a lot.

[17:32] Peter: ... and it's so rare.

[17:33] Alison: Well, I think what we all are living in a world without boundaries. And so, this idea that instead of thinking about things as siloed and maybe individually, let's say, fields of expertise staying in their lane, I think the real question is, what can we learn from each other and what exciting sparks are generated when those fields collide?

So, when you think about artists and the creative problem solving that they do, and many are research driven in their practice, they are looking in deeply into questions that concern them. And those could be questions of the environment. They could be questions of, in the case of the artist, Beverly Pepper, she's interested in big pharma.

You know, how is the pharmaceutical industry affecting our culture and our public health? These are, these are questions that aren't just purely aesthetics. And I think that what I hope putting art into spaces can do is really open up those fields of inquiry for unexpected exploration.

We don't have to predefine that response, or at least, if we're thinking about those in terms that are ultimately practical, of course, you know, if the rubber hits the road in real-world applications, but it can help open up questions that I hope will drive our culture forward. And, you know, I have so much faith in the students that Peter and the team bring to Rice and to Houston and hope that they'll take inspiration out as they go into the world to solve these problems.

[19:04] Peter: That's so beautifully put. I would just say, you know, that that's so complimentary to the idea we want to convey to students, which is you should question things. You should be open to and think about them. And you ought to have no boundary on that. And any academic institution worth its salt should invite students to do that. They art speaks to that perfectly.

[19:23] Maya: So, what kind of feedback have you gotten from the students about the pieces?

[19:26] Peter: You know, it's universally positive, universally positive. I think from the beginning, there was a bit of a question, like, "Oh, what's happening? What is changing?" And you could feel because in some ways, parts of the beginning, so you talked about the Beverly Fishman, the Jose Davila, and the Spencer Finch. They're all on the West End, which was renovated.

And we had Audrey's Coffee Shop that went in, which was an opening that also invited more people into the building. It was the first concrete floor we had in the building. Exposed ceiling. There was just a change a little bit in the interior architecture. So, people loved that. And they asked questions immediately. As it expanded, I think it became several things.

It became waiting to see what was next, hoping for more, asking about the artists, and pride. I think there was real pride. And they wanted to show each other things and talk about it. And that comes out in lots of different ways. People stop, look, ask questions, wanted to know more about what was happening. They take pictures.

There's the Instagram phenomenon with Pae White, which happens all the time. But then, you know, a great example, too, was the Kate Sheppard installation when she was there. You know, putting it in place and it reflects the building and the colors and the scale.

[20:48] Alison: Can you talk a bit more? Can you describe it?

[20:50] Peter: I should let Alison-

[20:50] Maya: Okay.

[20:51] Peter: ... do that piece. But I love that part of it. But students, seeing that happen, you know, there was a reverence for it and a deep interest and a pride in it. It was, it was beautiful to watch.

[21:02] Alison: Yeah, and I think process can often be as informative as the final presentation. So, we like to make that process available. So, when an artist is creating a work, we tend to just put stanchion off the area, but leave it open for people to see that happening.

So, we invited the New York-based artist, Kate Sheppard, to create her first permanent public wall drawing for the Jones School. And she was inspired by the architecture of the building, the original building. She has been trained as an artist and an architect. And she took the language of the atrium and its dimensions, and she translated that into a wall drawing.

And she took the red tiles of both the tiles on the floor of the Jones School, but also the red bricks throughout the Rice campus. And she chose the color red. And so, the patterned installation that she created is an echo of both the other surroundings and also her own practice. And what I love about it is that it's right outside the door of admissions. So, I really like that-

[22:07] Peter: I do, too.

[22:08] Alison: ... every student who comes out of the admissions will be greeted by an original work of art that isn't something you'll see in another setting as you're traveling around maybe interviewing at other business schools or even in your travels to other institutions. So, I like that. You know, I hope students will see it.

And because it's a wall drawing and it extends the length of the hallway, it has an almost cinematic quality that reveals itself as you proceed. So, you see it differently if you're coming from the interior of the rotunda out or from the outdoors in or from the admissions door. So, you get different angles. And you also see it over time. So, at night, it appears different when the lighting is more, you know, man-made versus during the day when you get more natural light.

And I think that's the beauty. One of the things about public art is that you do have a chance to have a durational relationship with the work of art. So, you might come as a prospective student and see it near admissions, then you might see it in your first year as you're growing in your own development as a, as a student and ultimately a professional. And you might see it as you come back for alumni events. And all of those experiences.

I hope you develop a relationship with the work, but also potentially see it differently. And I think that speaks, sort of, analogous to how we see the problems we face in our careers or in our professions, that those problems tend to stay with you for a while. You know, if you're working on an important issue, it doesn't usually resolve quickly. But you might approach it differently as you, as you grow and develop and as your surroundings change.

And I think the artwork that meets people where they are, where they're studying and living and working, is quite different. We do exhibitions at the Moody, and of course, I love it when people come to see them, but they come and go, and so you have a snapshot in time, but not that durational relationship. And I think that's really special.

[24:02] Maya: Well, it's the same as, you know, if you go to, like, the MoMA or the Guggenheim or, you know, when we take our children, they see the permanent collection. And then when we come back a few years later, they see things that they hadn't seen before, you know, because, you know, you grow and, and you really have a very different perspective.

[24:23] Peter: I would add that just, if you can imagine, so McNair Hall, it isn't that old. It was finished in 2002. But we have lots and lots of students who come back for reunions or for other events. And there, they go on a tour. They really experience the building completely differently. And they, I think, get a sense that things have changed and are changing.

They get invited back into reconsidering what the school is trying to accomplish and with whom and for what purpose. And that's been great help in, sort of, adjusting our identity and expressing our vision to you in just a way that it re-invites you to an older space. So, that's wonderful.

[25:02] Maya: And such a sense of pride, which we had talked about earlier, that, you know, when you come back and you see the growth and, you know, just the way that Rice is stepping into a different chapter. So, that's something that's very exciting to me as a, as a recent alumni. I've already seen so many wonderful things that have been transformed. And I do want to talk a bit more about the renovations and what phase the business school is in and plans for the future as well for the public initiative.

[25:37] Peter: Well, so, it's a very exciting time for us. By way of, sort of, history, you could see that the school has doubled, as you mentioned early in the podcast. We also started an undergraduate business major. It's very popular. It's leading to a lot of growth. It's the number one listed major for the incoming class of '27, if I did the math right.

[25:57] Maya: Really? The number one?

[25:58] Peter: Yeah, it's very popular-

[25:59] Maya: That's awesome.

[26:00] Peter: ... and exciting. It's great.

[26:01] Maya: That's exciting.

[26:02] Peter: I think it's a great combination. You know, you still take more than half of your coursework around all the breadth of Rice. And so, you get a great liberal arts education, or STEM-focused education as you might like, but you can also get a great degree in this very strong field.

Because of all this, we really outstretched what McNair Hall can do for us. It's about 160,000 usable square feet. And if you count all the spaces, like hallways and such, we're looking to add about 100,000-plus square feet with an addition that could begin in early '24. That's been the ambition.

[26:36] Maya: Which means more art.

[26:37] Peter: Which means more art and more opportunity. And you can imagine that Alison is doing a great work to help us think about that. Even the building itself, though, I would say, is informed by the art we've gone in.

So, the architects, who come in to look at your existing space, to change their thought process about what you want for the future, have thought, "Well, how do we incorporate a more modern addition to the building that adjusts the architect or changes it?" It won't look like the classic expression that you see at McNair Hall today, which is a great Robert A. M. Stern building.

But how do we adjust that with an eye towards the future and that has been influenced by the arts that's there? So, if you can think about the architects, and we had two great architectural firms, ARO, New York and Kirksey, locally, who have been working on it, they tour the building and they see the same artwork that you see.

They hear and feel the vision that we have when thinking about this very large edition that's coming soon. So, we're excited. And of course, it would be unthinkable to do that without more art.

[27:39] Maya: Well, I mean, you can't leave.

[27:42] Peter: Yeah.

[27:42] Maya: You're here for forever.

[27:44] Alison: Well, they're keeping us busy.

[27:45] Peter: Yeah.

[27:46] Alison: But I do, I do think it is interesting how art can be a part of that changing discourse. And it's important. You know, universities simultaneously have a very long timeline, certainly relative to, let's say, business. We're, sort of, more in the 100-year timeline. But it's important within that to think about evolution and innovation.

And I think that striking that balance between having the long-term architecture that is needed to support the functionality but having the atmosphere where we're always growing and changing and not settling for the status quo. And I think when I see the students active in McNair Hall, they are the future.

You know, they really are absolutely taking on the important issues, and I hope will go out and solve them for us, or at least make progress. And so, I hope they'll take with them that idea, that comfort with change and evolution that, I think, artwork brings.

[28:45] Peter: I want to add one thing about the addition that's really useful, just as a subtext, is one of the things that will take place is that we'll build adjacent on the, sort of, south side of the existing McNair Hall. And it draws us closer into the Tyrell, into Twilight Epiphany. But everything about the addition was shaped by preservation of the viewshed so that nothing is lost.

But in fact, in some ways, it signals how important that piece is and how important being congruent with the artistic, you know, structure of the existing campus is. I think it's going to be an outstanding addition and that's going to be an outstanding statement when you see the architect's vision for how we do that. So, I'm excited about all this. And I think everyone's going to love to see it.

[29:33] Maya: Well, I can't wait. So, what timeline? I'm not going to hold you to it-

[29:37] Peter: Oh, you know-

[29:38] Maya: ... but just I have to ask.

[29:38] Peter: ... I'll say, fingers crossed, knock on wood, all the, all the usual, I believe in '24, early '24, I think, we hope to begin. And, you know, if all goes well, it could be an 18-month or so process before completion, which would put a timeline somewhere around late spring '25 or early summer '25.

[29:58] Maya: That's super exciting-

[29:59] Peter: It is.

[29:59] Maya: ... because that's just right around the corner.

[30:01] Peter: It's close, very close.

[30:02] Maya: So, one thing I do want to ask is that, you know, a lot of the pieces are modern. It's modern. Well, all of them, right? And so, I think that there are some that... How do you explain, this is a very loaded question, how do you explain modern art to those that just it doesn't resonate with them? You know, how do you do that?

[30:25] Alison: Well, one way is to certainly put it where people already are. So, I think one barrier to appreciation of art in general from any time period is this idea that you have to go to a museum and be educated in that, in that field in order to fully appreciate it. I don't know where that concept comes from, but it's in our culture with the field.

[30:44] Peter: Right.

[30:45] Alison: And it may have to do with the kind of architecture of museums. There's, sort of, these temple fronts, you know, these...

[30:49] Peter: Right. Good point.

[30:49] Alison: They can be a barrier to access. And I think one of the interesting things about public art is that there is no barrier if it's in your everyday world. And so, you know, the work behind us is here all the time. Whether people are taking classes or studying in the building, they will pass by it. They might spend time looking at it and might not.

So, I think the best way to... I wouldn't say explain, but to make accessible any kind of art, but certainly contemporary art, is to make it familiar and accessible, like public art. So, we start there, by just putting it where people already are. And I love seeing the students on the second floor of McNair Hall, where you can see both of Pae White, but also a painting by an artist named Joanna Poussete-Dart.

And it's at the far end of the hallway, kind of, anchoring the other side. And it's a shaped canvas of bold colors that is very innovative, I think, in its approach to the more traditional medium of abstract painting, but she's innovated against that in these very distinctive ways.

And it's the kind of thing that could just become part of your peripheral vision as you're studying in that area, but I hope over time that one might be inspired to look it up. We have an app and a website, or you could just Google the artist.

[32:10] Peter: The app is key.

[32:10] Maya: Yeah. So-

[32:11] Alison: Key.

[32:12] Maya: ... okay, can you tell me about the app?

[32:13] Alison: Well, the students developed it, of course, so.

[32:16] Maya: Well, the business students, I mean, they should have.

[32:19] Alison: Have much more technological capability than I do.

[32:22] Peter: Is it Art at Rice? What's the name of the app?

[32:24] Alison: It's Rice Public Art.

[32:26] Peter: Rice Public Art.

[32:26] Alison: So, if you, if you go into the App Store, you can download the Rice Public Art app, which has all the works in the collection, including those in McNair Hall, and with information about the artist and the work.

[32:36] Maya: I'm doing that as soon as, as soon as we can change.

[32:38] Alison: Everyone should download the app. It's fantastic. It's well-designed, thanks to our brilliant and highly technologically capable students. But I think that rather than, let's say, a project to grandly explain contemporary art, which it's like saying, "Well, how would you start explaining to someone the energy industry and the need for, you know, the need for, you know, transfer to clean energy?" I mean, it would be hard. It's a big topic, right? So, maybe better to just wade in and start experientially. And so, that's what we're hoping to do.

[33:12] Peter: People love the app. They learn about the artist. They learn a little bit about the choices that they made, the medium. And I think the best advice is, you know, how do you feel about it? Observe it. Think about it. What's happening here? Is there a conversation-

[33:26] Alison: Conversation. Let's have a conversation.

[33:28] Peter: ... that's going on. And that's an incredible beginning. But I like the fact that a lot of people just feel, sort of, captivated or arrested by the art a little bit. And we should mention that that happens a lot. I see that every day because I work in what was formerly our library, I think, kind of, the best internal real estate in some ways.

It's now the Barbara and David Gibbs Convocation Hall, or what we colloquially call a Gibbs Gallery in some ways. You walk in and you have these pieces of art that are really large and are resting there. And people love to just come in and pause and think and sit or take their coffee break and walk through. It's remarkable. So, I don't know what their internal dialogue is at the time, but I'm sure it's the kind that we would want them to have.

[34:16] Maya: Well, maybe we could do a podcast about it, and we can interview those folks, right?

[34:19] Peter: That would be great. Sure. What are you thinking right now?

[34:21] Maya: Just an idea, right? We need to put that on a, on a future episode for sure. So, okay, final questions. Obviously, you know, art is such a integral part of both of your lives. What's your favorite piece of art on the planet?

[34:37] Peter: Oh, on the planet?

[34:40] Maya: Yes. You don't have to pick just one.

[34:43] Peter: I'm going to pick in the building.

[34:44] Maya: All right.

[34:44] Peter: I'm just going to say-

[34:46] Maya: Fair enough.

[34:46] Peter: ... the planet is a little bit high. So, I will say, I think Kandinsky studied economics, by the way.

[34:52] Alison: Yes.

[34:52] Peter: I do remember that. So, you can actually see some early depictions of, you know, Marshall's, sort of, curves and the way that he described growth paths and things like that. So, I was always taken by Kandinsky's early, just because of that particular connection.

There's actually one yellow, red, blue, I think, or yellow, blue, whatever the name is, that I remember very well because of that. So, I would say that is probably my favorite, you know, sort of, abstract expressionist work of art or whatever he was doing at the time. In the building, it's just hard not to love the Pae White piece.

[35:25] Alison: Yeah.

[35:26] Peter: So, that's why. But you've given Alison an impossible question-

[35:30] Alison: I can't say.

[35:31] Peter: ... as the...

[35:31] Alison: All of our artists, with the exception of Carmen Herrera, are living, and so I couldn't pick a favorite.

[35:37] Maya: Well, that's why I said not necessarily in the building, but on the planet. You know, I opened it up, right? And gave you a larger opportunity to answer the question.

[35:46] Alison: Well, and yeah, I really can't pick a favorite because I do think that art functions in such different contexts. But what I hope is that people will feel comfortable in choosing their own favorites. So, that's a great conversation. It breaks down the barrier of that need to feel that you are, let's say, a scholar of art history or super well-informed. It's fine to just like or not like. You could say, "I love the colors in this one. I love the medium."

We actually have quite a few different types of materials you'll notice as you go throughout the building. One work, for example, is made out of acrylic. So, Marta Chilindron created a work called Parallel Greens, which is slices of acrylic. And they were individually 3D printed hinges, which were designed in combination between the artist and Metalab Houston.

So, an example of truly creative problem solving in an applied manner, that piece is there. And I think that you could just say, "Well, I really like how cool the light is when it creates a shadow off that piece," or, "I really think those hinges are awesome because they were so beautifully designed, and 3D printed." So, I think I would invite students. It would be fun. Maybe, at some point, we'll have something where students get to express their favorite art.

[37:09] Peter: An art runoff. You know, a tournament of art pieces.

[37:11] Alison: The student's choice.

[37:13] Maya: Well, there's the art car parade, right, that you have?

[37:14] Peter: That's right.

[37:15] Alison: Yeah.

[37:15] Maya: Something like that.

[37:16] Peter: Sure. It could be.

[37:17] Alison: Yeah. Well, and I think the most interesting part about art is that the more you explore the planet, the more you're exposed to different kinds of art.

[37:29] Peter: You didn't give your answer-

[37:30] Alison: I'm not...

[37:30] Peter: ... by the way.

[37:31] Maya: Well, I'm the one that asked the questions.

[37:32] Peter: Top three, top one.

[37:32] Maya: I don't give the answers.

[37:34] Peter: Okay.

[37:34] Maya: I ask the questions.

[37:36] Peter: Okay. That's good. As a professor, I can relate to that exact sentiment. Right.

[37:41] Maya: I like all of it. I mean, I don't know. I think that, you know, because whenever we go on travels with our kids to expose them to different cultures and countries and everything else, you know, I always feel like, oh, my gosh, I've seen the most phenomenal thing here.

And it's something that, you know, I'll keep with me for the rest of my life. And then, you know, you travel somewhere else, and you're blown away by something different. And I think it's your own private collection within yourself that you carry around.

[38:10] Peter: Right. Yeah. Lovely.

[38:12] Alison: Yeah.

[38:13] Peter: Well-put.

[38:14] Maya: Well, we really appreciate your time and thank you so much. And, again, that app, everybody needs to download that app.

[38:20] Alison: Rice Public Art.

[38:22] Peter: Public Art at Rice, yep. And thank you, Alison.

[38:24] Alison: Thank you.

[38:24] Peter: I just can't thank you enough for the years of work. You've transformed this space for us. Thank you.

[38:27] Maya: You both have.

[38:28] Alison: Well, thank you for the invitation. It's been a very fruitful collaboration.

[38:31] Peter: I agree, I agree. We'll continue...

[38:32] Maya: We hope it will inspire more.

[38:34] Peter: Yes, that's absolutely true.

[38:35] Maya: Well, we'll have to do a follow-up.

[38:36] Peter: We will.

[38:37] Alison: Yeah.

[38:37] Peter: I like it.

[38:38] Alison: Thank you. Thank you so much.

[38:39] Peter: Thank you.

[38:40] Outro: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.

[00:00]Kevin: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path Series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.

[00:15]Scott: On today's episode of Owl Have You Know, I'm here with Jan Goetgeluk and Jesus Patiño, Full-Time MBA students graduating in 2010. This is an exciting episode. We've got two guests on. You guys are, in some ways, catching up here for the first time in a, in a bit. We're going to talk about your story. We're going to talk about Rice Energy Finance Summit, which you guys founded, and a whole bunch of other things, I'm sure. So, welcome to the show, guys.

[00:42]Jesus: Thank you.

[00:43]Jan: Thanks for having us.

[00:44]Scott: So, I want to just kind of chronologically, one of the things I'd just love to unpack is, you guys both grew up outside of the United States. Jan, you in Belgium. Jesus, you in Mexico. And I want to just ask how did Rice eventually get on your radar? What drew you to Rice? Jan, you want to go first?

[01:04]Jan: Yeah. Yeah. I came to Houston for my first job out of college. I did my master's degree, undergrad and master's in Belgium, mechanical engineering. Was sent to Houston for a project and fell in love with Houston, with the U.S., and decided to stay.

So, when my company wanted me to go back to Belgium after my project, I told them, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to stay here. So, I quit my job and then I went to business school. And I was in Houston already, and Rice was just such a great school and such a good fit. And that's where I ended up going.

[01:38]Jesus: So, for me, after college, I worked for M-I SWACO, now Schlumberger, for years offshore. And part of the, when you start the program, you go into what they call the Mud School. I was a drilling fluids engineer, so I came to Mud School, spent nine weeks in Houston. And I had kind of the bug for a few years. I started working. And six years later, when it came time to apply to business schools, I applied to a bunch of, you know, whatever the top five schools and Rice because of its connection to the oil and gas and the energy industry. And it turned out to be a great decision, so.

[02:11]Scott: Love that. So, Jesus, you know, you, you've got a technical background. What sort of drew you to that initial line of work?

[02:18]Jesus: So, with an engineering degree, I mean, I started working overseas. I initially wanted to go into the food industry, but my family, my dad worked in oil and gas. My grandfather worked in oil and gas. They were both geologists. It was just natural to find a good job in oil and gas back in Mexico. And I started, I got a job offer to start going offshore and started doing that. Pay was good. Job was exciting, interesting projects, and we took it from there. I mean, I was, spent some, about six years going offshore. The last couple of years were in West Africa, so I was doing assignments and doing the rotational engineering job where you go and spend four weeks on and four weeks off.

While I was doing that, I was, it's a story that I, I've told a few people. It's we were in the rain one night. It was like a Sunday. It was actually Monday, local time in Ghana, 2:00 AM in the morning, right? And we had to decide whether or not to pull out of the, I mean, to pull the down tool out of the well, which was going to take two days and probably 4 million dollars’ worth of rake time, right? And we were waiting on a call from Dallas, someone, you know, make the decision on whether or not to continue drilling and go try to find next contact or pull out of the hole, right? And it was kind of, okay. Today is Monday, 2:00 AM in the morning. Someone is crunching numbers back in Dallas to make a decision. It wasn't happening with us and the rest, you know, couple of months of our lives. I rather being that, doing that job rather than being here.

So, while it was very exciting to be, you know, looking at, I mean, getting things done in the field, I thought that the decision process required different type of skillset and was time to go to school to get it. So, that's kind of what brought me to business school, and Rice was definitely the right place to.

[04:08]Scott: Jan, you've also got an engineering background, mechanical engineer, I understand, spent some time in petrochemical logistics and other things. Can you talk a little bit about your career leading up to your experience at Rice and what led you to start down that path? And then, we'll talk a bit about what you spend your time doing today, but would just love to kind of understand. I'm just trying to paint a picture of, you're in Belgium, you've done this degree, and now you're kind of starting this career. What got you sort of pointed down that path initially?

[04:36]Jan: Yeah, my career before Rice was, in one word, short. It was very short. I did an engineering degree in Belgium because it's never intended to be technical or have a technical career. I always wanted to have a business career, but an engineering degree, at least in Belgium, provides the broadest range of possible career opportunities. I also wanted to leave Belgium and go abroad. And again, having an engineering degree, especially mechanical engineering, provided a lot of opportunities to get a job abroad. And so, you know, that's why I decided to get my engineering degree, started working for this petrochemical logistics company in Belgium.

Again, for the main reason, because they promised they would send me to the U.S. for a project. That's why I joined that company in the first place. And then they sent me to the U.S. for a project and then wow, I loved it so much. And I quit that job to stay. That was just a seven-month period, if you will.

So, really had barely one year of work experience when I joined the Rice program. I was one of the youngest guys in the class. I think I was, yeah, 24, I guess, when I, 23 or 24 when I started. I did a five-year master program in school. So, I was one of the youngest guys starting Rice.

[05:54]Scott: I've been to Belgium before. Love the country. What are some of that initial moment that you guys, kind of, met, like, what, were you guys in that class together, work on a project together? Like, how did you guys sort of connect? Would love to just sort of carry that into the discussion on the whole premise for the Rice Energy Finance Summit and what led to not only the concept but sort of executing that for the first time.

[06:17]Jan: Yeah. When did we meet, Jesus? It must have been day one-

[06:19]Jesus: Oh, yeah.

[06:20]Jan: … I think, one of the first events-

[06:20]Jesus: Yeah.

[06:21]Jan: … probably. I think they even had an event just for the international students, I think, before we started-

[06:25]Jesus: We had an immersion week, right?

[06:26]Jan: … if I remember correctly. Yeah. So, even before the year officially started, I think we had an international… do you remember that? I think we went to the Rice football stadium.

[06:33]Jesus: With a bunch of internationals in the first game. It was, yeah, the very first week. That's right.

[06:39]Jan: Just for the international students. Yeah. So, I think we met very early on, yeah.

[06:43]Jesus: Very early. And then, I don't remember, we were in the same section also, right? So, we took-

[06:48]Jan: Yes, right.

[06:49]Jesus: … probably most of the core classes essentially together, right? So yeah, with, I mean, we were, we were essentially in the same classes.

[06:58]Scott: So, spending a bunch of time together, working on different things. I mean, I, I'm just trying to figure out, like, sitting at Valhalla, like having a drink and like, hey, we should do this. What was kind of the spark of what is turned into rest?

[07:08]Jesus: That happened definitely further in the year, right?

[07:10]Jan: Yeah. Maybe a fun fact too, Jesus, you probably remember this. But 2008, when we started the program, is when Hurricane Ike hit Houston and shut down the school. And I was staying in the Rice graduate apartments, which were hit pretty hard. Those were shut out, shut down for two weeks, and actually stayed with Jesus and his wife and Camila, his one-year-old daughter, for a few days. Because, of course, at Rice, I didn't have power or water or… remember that, Jesus? Yeah, Hurricane Ike, Jesus was kind enough to let me stay with him. So, we were, we were friends very early on.

[07:45]Jesus: Yeah, there was always, I guess, a sense of the international student community. There was a different, we're all kind of in the same ground. Although I must say that one thing that always… so Jan, he was, he seemed to be farther ahead in the plan for the program and what to do and when to… I was not nearly, you know, at the same level when we came to, you know, readiness for the investment banking interviews and all that stuff that comes very early, right, late in the first semester. So, and obviously, I mean, I was, you know, married with a one-year-old little girl in the house. He was kind of a slightly, I think, I think that gave everyone a sense of that I had more stability.

[08:25]Jan: Oh, sure.

[08:26]Jesus: But that was not necessarily the case, but.

[08:28]Jan: Yeah. You were a phase ahead of most of us in life. I was a 24-year-old single guy. Yeah, different stage in life. And then for REFS, I think what happened was, so I was elected to be the Rice Finance Club president in the second year. And then Jesus was elected Rice Energy Club president. And I was thinking about what I wanted to accomplish as Rice Finance Club president.

And one of the items on that list was, you know, what, how about a student-run conference? And I think even maybe the dean at that point was really interested in seeing that happen. Started talking to Jesus, why don't we do a joint finance club, energy club and something around finance and energy. And that's how we started talking about it and how it came to be.

[09:19]Jesus: And I remember that the year, the year before, so in our first year. Kian and the guys-

[09:26]Jan: Yeah.

[09:26]Jesus: … they tried, they did a energy education for this event. We had Janet Clark as the main speaker. She was, at the time, the CFO of Marathon Oil, but that also got pushed-

[09:37]Jan: Right.

[09:37]Jesus: … because of the storm. And so, that event didn't happen. It was kind of something that, it was not as ambitious as REFS ended up being, but it was, kind of a, an initial push to make something slightly bigger happen, right around energy education and finance, and…

[09:52]Jan: Yeah, that's correct. I sat down with Kian Granmayeh, who was the Rice Finance Club president of the year before, and brainstormed with him about what are all the things that we could organize. And he mentioned also the idea of a conference, which he tried, but then didn't really work out.

And then one other thing on the list was a first visit to Warren Buffet, which we organized as well. That was the first time we did that. And there were a few other things. But yeah, student-run conference was on that list. And so, I'm a doer, so, you know, just wanted to make it happen. Yeah.

[10:25]Jesus: And I remember it being at the student come sitting and having a chat with Jan and this whole thing of how big should we think. And it was very adamant about thinking big. And just why not try to be, you know, whoever, right? And that's when Jan came up with the name, the summit name.

[10:45]Jan: Yeah.

[10:45]Jesus: That initially, I thought it was, I mean, I wouldn't have come up with that, but I think it worked out really, really, really well as a name and as a brand. And then we went with Dean Glick to make the pitch, and say, okay, this is what we want to do.

[11:00]Scott: A lot that has to come together to pull something like that off.

[11:05]Jan: We got some big speakers. I mean, that was the key thing. And I was, I'm, I was very impressed as a Rice MBA student. You really get incredible access to leaders in the business society, in the business community. And so, we had top-notch speakers that first year. We had some CEOs of top energy companies. It came together really, really nicely.

[11:28]Jesus: Every time I speak with a student nowadays, I always tell them that there's only two years in their lives where they are going to be able to start an email saying, I am a Rice MBA student that wants to speak with you. And that line is powerful because it really resonates with people and you get their attention. And that's a door opener that you shouldn't let pass, right?

You should take full advantage of it because it really allows you to connect with people that otherwise they won't listen to you, right?

[11:59]Jan: That's right. Yeah.

[12:00]Scott: You guys are touching on a few factors that I think tell the story well. That, one, an experience at Rice Business is sort of opportunity to create something from nothing that might, you know, have an impact. And as students and active alumni, you've seen, you know, different programs kind of come and go. Different initiatives come and go, but there's sort of this freedom to create in an effort to have a positive impact.

What do you think that, sort of, the staying power of REFS? You know, it has become over the years, one of the, you know, the largest student-led programs at Rice Business. Where do you think some of that longevity came from, and anything that kind of sticks out in the experience?

[12:41]Jan: Well, I think you have to be a bit lucky with who takes the helm. Because obviously, we can only organize it one year. I think the inaugural edition, I thought was terrific, the speakers and the attendance. The following year, we handed it off to the next group of students. They did it all right. You know, it still happened.

And then the third year was… Brian did. And actually, another fun fact. My wife, who's now my wife, was the co-chair of the third REFS edition in 2012, together with Brian. And they did also a great job. And so, once you have a few good editions under your belt, that's where it kept rolling.

But I think to your point, I think it's just, it was just a right fit for Rice, Rice Energy Finance Summit. It seems like it did fill a hole in Houston and especially for the Rice community. And so, it made sense to have it. And I think it's just a useful program that got enough interest from the community to grow. And now, it's so great to see that even now, I think 12 years later, it's still going strong. So, it's just fantastic.

[13:49]Jesus: I remember the first interview that I had with the school was with Sean Ferguson, who was the associate dean of degree programs, I believe, at the time. It was in Mexico City actually, in one of these career fairs, MBA fairs in Mexico City.

I had lunch with Sean, and he was telling me part of the pitch that he was making for the Rice MBA was that it's a place where you can come and do things. Yeah. That this is small enough, right, where you can actually make an impact. Which sounds a little bit as a cliche, but it was very true. It turned out to be very real. And I think still is.

I mean, you still see, fairly, newer programs, right? Like the Women Leadership Conference. And it's a place that has, you know, enough resources to allow you to think big, right? But still, it's not enough where you can, you're going to have to make it happen and that's something that I think, I think's part of the, of the reasons why it was a successful program, right?

[14:47]Jan: Yeah, I spoke to a group of Rice students last Friday, and I said the same thing. My time at Rice was the best two years of my life. But you get out what you put in, and I put in a lot. And it gave me so much, you know. I really had such an incredible time. But you get out what you put in.

And for any existing students today or current students, try to do stuff, build things, be engaged, be involved, and it's such an incredible, rich experience being at Rice, in the business school. It's a unique time in your life. And yeah. For me, it's still, today, the best time of my life. Yeah.

[15:24]Jesus: And that goes definitely to the program and also for the alumni life, right? Once you're an alum, always something interesting going on, right? And whether, I mean, and being outside Houston is harder to remain involved, but attending the events-

[15:37]Jan: It is, yeah.

[15:37]Jesus: … that are outside Houston and just being, trying to be part of it. I think there's a, you always get more than what you put in, but you need to put it in.

[15:46]Jan: Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point because being in Austin, I live in Austin. It's definitely harder because, of course, I was extremely engaged with Rice in Houston. And then, after my time, I went back to the school all the time for events and such a wonderful community. And then being away from Houston does make it harder, unfortunately.

[16:07]Scott: I appreciate you guys sharing that. I think it's such an important feature for, sort of, current students, even alumni, prospective students, that Rice truly is a place to learn, experiment, build relationships. And you kind of just never know what might have legs and become sort of, like, integrated into the fabric of what Rice Business delivers and the countless impact that the summit has had over the years, and cool opportunities. I've had an opportunity to speak at REFS in the past. And so, I've had a chance to stay connected. And so, it's really great to see.

I'd, I do want to ask sort of, are there any sort of learnings from that experience, in building that, whether individually or together, that you sort of reflect on or sort of help as you've kind of gone out into your current expression of your career, which I want to sort of jump into as well?

[16:58]Jan: Maybe that there's nothing you can't do. I mean, you want to organize a conference and make it a big success? You can. It's just a matter of doing it. A lot of people have a lot of ideas in life. And always say ideas are like buses. There's another one every five minutes. You just have to do it, and you have to execute and make it happen.

And that experience, Jesus did a tremendous job building this conference. And together, it just gave us a lot of confidence, I think, that yeah, wow, you know. There's really nothing you can't do. And it is true. Having that the Rice, hey, I'm a Rice MBA student, being able to put it in an email, actually opens up a lot of doors. Which to Jesus's point, after you graduate from Rice, was that you can't do that anymore. But yeah, just, that level of confidence in what you can accomplish and reaching out to top head honchos and captains of industry. And guess what? They respond to you, and they're interested. And so, it was a remarkable experience.

[18:03]Jesus: Yeah. And yeah, one thing that I don't think, Jan, we were not thinking about, you know, any kind of we just wanted to make something, something big and because we didn't see any reason why the school, I mean, shouldn't have a big event in finance energy, right? I mean, we had everything in place, you know. A terrific venue, school with a lot of prestige, you had all the, you know, the corporate offices of all the top energy companies and investment banks and so on and so forth. So, there was no reason why it all was needed. It was a ton of work, a few people, right, to make it happen. And that's what it is. I mean, there was, there was nothing special other than getting it done, right?

[18:49]Scott: Was it ever in doubt? I mean, was it ever in doubt that you were going to get that first one up and off the ground? You mentioned sort of funding or other things. Was it, was there sort of a moment, or was it just kind of, like, as you're marching forward, it became clear that it was going to be able to be executed?

[19:08]Jan: I don't think there was ever in doubt, no. We were marching ahead and making it happen.

[19:13]Jesus: And Jan was able to secure a couple of speakers very early on. Yeah, before I even noticed, he had already-

[19:18]Jan: Yeah, yeah.

[19:18]Jesus: … sent a few emails and had gotten responses. And we're like, okay, well, that's, it looks like it's happening, so.

[19:24]Jan: We're up and running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And also, thanks to the school, I mean, a lot of these early speakers on, they're also involved with the school.

[19:31]Jesus: Council of Overseers –

[19:32]Jan: Some of the… yep. Yes, yep, yep. Council of Overseers. And of course, the dean was on board, and the whole school was on board. So, when we saw that we would get some big speakers, then we knew it was going to be a success. When you get together big speakers in a room, you know you'll attract attendees. And we didn't charge all that much, frankly. I think now, Jesus, it's a lot more expensive to attend, I think, REFS. In our year…

[19:56]Jesus: We had a few conversations-

[19:57]Jan: Yeah.

[19:58]Jesus: … about what is the right price tag for this.

[19:59]Jan: Yeah.

[20:00]Jesus: It was kind of a, yeah, it was, it was not nearly as nice. We didn't have the fancy luncheon or the it was essentially, you know-

[20:07]Jan: Yeah.

[20:07]Jesus: … lunch boxes and, uh… it was a lot more modest, but it happened.

[20:12]Jan: Yep. Yeah, the entrance fee was modest. And then, so we knew if we had the speakers, we could bring together full attendance and make it a success. Yeah.

[20:22]Jesus: I do, I do remember though that, I mean, we were concerned at some point with people signing at signups, right? Because sure whether or not-

[20:29]Jan: Yeah. Will people show up right?

[20:30]Jesus: … [crosstalk 20:31] all that.

[20:32]Jan: Yeah.

[20:32]Jesus: But that was part of the, that comes with it.

[20:34]Jan: We really pushed everybody to advertise it, promote it. Lots of emails were sent out, just to make sure people would sign up. And they did. And they did. Yeah.

[20:45]Scott: Fantastic. Well, appreciate what you guys have built. I think it's, it doesn't have an end in sight. So, it's really exciting. Think it's going to be a plank in the foundation of Rice Business for years to come. I'd love to sort of just dig into a little bit, your experience sort of post-graduation.

So, you've both gone on to do different careers. And so, Jesus, I wanted to ask, you know, we were talking a bit about your offshore oil and gas experience after graduation. What happened next, if you will, sort of in the story? Like, where did you go in your career and what were some of the decision points along the way?

[21:19]Jesus: So, after graduation, I, as part of the whole REFS and energy club and involvement with the school, I got opportunity to meet Jay Collins, who at the time was the CEO of Oceaneering International. I kind of developed a little bit of a connection there. And they ended up opening a business analyst position at Oceaneering, and they invited me to join there.

It was, I ended up interviewing with him and Kevin McEvoy, who was the CEO also at the time. Little bit of an odd thing for a business analyst position, but it was also a testament of the Rice, I guess, prestige. So, I had, I had an interview and joined the company as a business analyst. This was right after graduation. Actually, it didn't happen as part of the graduation. I did my internship with M-I SWACO, who was a company that I was working for before school. They actually made me an offer, but it was, it was, the offer from Oceaneering was significantly better in many aspects.

And with Oceaneering, I spent 11 years. I mean, covering different roles, doing, had a marketing job with the company. Then they had a, I did M&A for a few years. The company spent a few years, actually very active in the acquisition side. So, got to do that, the corporate development role for about three years.

Then jumped in a, the head commercial job with our, with the offshore intervention business of the company. All, you know, Oceaneering is a subsidy company. It have been [inaudible 22:51] experience. Never did a technical job with Oceaneering. It was all either, you know, commercial, finance, or corporate development.

And the last role that I had with Oceaneering was a, it started a business for a maritime intelligence initiative. After an acquisition, we did, the business was trying to take a different angle and start developing intelligent solutions for maritime operators outside on gas. And I got to run a team of data scientists to develop this platform to tell analytics. That business didn't take off on the way we expected.

And last year, I left Oceaneering and started working for, with a former colleague from Oceaneering, in family business he's got in here in Houston, in Pearland. We manufacture sand blasting equipment, so I'm no longer in oil and gas. It's a manufacturing operation. It's a very nice operation, very well-run business, that is looking at doing an international expansion, significant international expansion over the next few years. So, I came in to help setting up that strategy and executing the strategy for, to help the company get into the next phase of growth. And I've been here working with them, and it's really exciting. It's fun. I'm traveling more than I was and it's refreshing. A totally different animal from corporate development, from a corporate job, but it's super fun.

[24:15]Scott: That's fantastic. Jesus, you've managed to kind of stay close to Rice post-graduation as well. We touched on briefly – you've stayed connected with alumni organizations. Can you share a bit about your experience there and what motivated you to participate in the ways that you have?

[24:31]Jesus: Rice is definitely a big part of, you know, of our family. As Jan said, it's probably two of the best years of our lives were spent at the program. And when we graduated, just wanted to stay involved. So, I, after, I mean, I was very active, you know, coming to events, attending to events. I, we bought a house fairly close to Rice, the Heights area, so…to campus, so, it's a short drive. And part of the decision of staying there was to be close to Rice, quite honestly. Undeclared reason, right? Anyway.

[25:04]Scott: Right.

[25:05]Jesus: So, we are close. A couple years after graduation, I was invited to join the alumni association board and started working with the board. And I mean, it's a three-year commitment that is typically extended to three more years, right? So, it ends up being a six-year commitment.

And the last year, I had, I had the opportunity to serve as president of the alumni association. So, it was a, it's a good time just to be, you know, around. The thing that I also say a lot is that I have seen the value of my degree going up over time. I mean, my equity in the school is, I mean, if the rankings are an indication, right? It's clearly come up.

I don't know if I would be eligible for admission today. I'll say that much. But yeah. So, I remain active. I rolled off the alumni association board in the following year. I was invited to join the Rice Business Partners board, right? So, it's a different angle. And I don't know if the folks listening know what are the roles of different boards.

The alumni association board essentially represents the alumni body, right, in front of the office of the dean. The Rice Business Partners is a group that helps the school connect with the corporate world, with the business side of… so, you have the, what it was, used to be, the Council of, Council of Overseers. That is, it changed names now, especially senior executives, you know, helping the school generally. Big donors helping direction, strategic direction to the dean, the Alumni Association representing the students, and then the Rice Business Partners, which sort of represents the corporate world of the business world.

So, I've been working with the Rice Business Partners board for three, four years now, and was recently asked to serve as president, so president-elect of the Rice Business Partners now. And yeah, look forward to it. We organize, we have a lot of events, and about seven to 10 events a year that have the Leadership Speaker series. And then we have some round tables and our members can come to events and also was a nice event and networking session following up.

[27:18]Scott: As you're kind of saying, like Rice Business Partners today, like, how do people be, is it, you know, organizations that sort of sign up as, partners? How could alum listening find ways to get connected with some of the or- those organizations?

[27:29]Jesus: I mean, with links with more information in the school's website. Reach out to any of us, members. Our events are always published in schools, and you can, you can join in, sign up the newsletters that we send out.

Essentially, we have two types of memberships, a corporate membership and an individual membership, right? And two different price tags. Both give you access to all of our events. The whole idea of the Rice Business Partners is operating under three pillars that we call, right, connect, inform, and inspire.

And all the things that we do are around the idea of creating connections, informing people, giving somebody some useful information for the lives, and inspiring folks to do good things, right? So, it's, we have the Rice Business Partners website. Just reach out and we have to speak more about it.

[28:17]Scott: Love it. Jan, if I could pivot to you, you sort of got a job in investment banking after graduation. Can you talk a little bit about your post-graduation experience and ultimately, what led you to the company that you're currently sort of working for-

[28:34]Jan: Yeah.

[28:34]Scott: … and some of your entrepreneurial experience along the way?

[28:37]Jesus: Before Jan starts, sorry. Let me tell you that Jan has, Jan is the poster child of an MBA career for me. So, every time I need to tell somebody.

[28:45]Jan: I don't know about that.

[28:47]Jesus: He checks all the boxes for pre- and post-MBA.

[28:52]Jan: If you want a post-MBA career in energy finance, corporate, Jesus is a poster child. If you want to go do something entrepreneurial, with the caveat, “don't try at home” kind of thing [crosstalk 29:08].

[29:08]Jesus: Under your own risk, right?

[29:10]Jan: ... right? Yeah, I always wanted to do something entrepreneurial, be an entrepreneur, start my own business. But I'm an immigrant, couldn't start a business out of business school because I need a visa to stay in the country. Same with Jesus.

And so, I decided to, you know, get a job with the one industry that doesn't care if you're an immigrant or not, which is investment banking. They do sponsor foreign students for their visa. And also, investment banking, I thought, you know, they pay the most money. So, I could make as much money as possible and save as much money as possible to then start my own business one day. So, I went into investment banking, JP Morgan investment banking.

And fun fact. In fact, I was the Rice Finance Club president. I didn't take a single finance elective at Rice. I took all the entrepreneurship classes at Rice, which now the entrepreneurship program is well regarded highly, highly ranked number one in certain surveys. Rightfully so. I loved every class of it. And I actually graduated with the entrepreneurship designation. Even though I went into investment banking, which was always my temporary job. Because while at JP Morgan, I was actively looking for opportunities, looking at one point to buy a business with a few former classmates, going down several entrepreneurial opportunities, most of which didn't work out.

But at one point, I thought, you know, virtual reality, I thought, was going to be the next big thing. This was in 2011, 2012, a bit early, but I thought virtual reality was going to be the next big thing. And I thought the biggest problem that hadn't been solved yet was how to move around inside VR, inside the metaverse, which is now the hype term of the day.

And so, you need something like a treadmill, but a treadmill in 360 degrees, an omnidirectional treadmill. And I started looking into that and nothing existed. Nothing commercially viable existed. And I'm a mechanical engineer by background. So, I thought, you know, this is a mechanical problem. Let me start working on this.

And so, I started working on early designs of an omnidirectional treadmill. Started working with a design house in Houston. Then started working with a prototype shop in Pearland to make an early prototype, all while I was at JP Morgan. So, this was after hours, late at night, 2:00, 3:00 am. Or sometimes, I would leave the office in the afternoon, sneak out, drive to Pearland, check on this prototype, drive back to the JP Morgan office downtown, and then work until like 3:00 am or 4:00 am.

[31:35]Scott: Yeah, all the investment bankers out there are wondering when did you have spare time.

[31:38]Jan: Yeah.

[31:38]Scott: Because the IB calendar is pretty packed.

[31:41]Jan: Pretty, pretty packed. It's pretty brutal. So, mentally do two different things like that at the same time. And at some point, I published the first video of me using this big old prototype of the Omni, that's our core product, the Omni, this omnidirectional treadmill. I was playing this famous video game, Skyrim with an old VR glasses on the Omni. And that video blew up, hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube, big press cycle. And then I thought… this was in early 2013. And then I thought, “You know what? I'm, this is it. I think, I think this is the right opportunity. I'm going to quit my job.” I was about to make probably $400,000 that year with JP Morgan. I said, “You know what? I promised myself I would quit.”

Another fun fact, I actually wrote a contract to myself while at Rice that I would quit my investment banking job within, I think, three and a half or four years or so. I promised myself it would quit because the risk is that you get stuck and you make a lot of money. And then that entrepreneurial dream you once had, I just, you know, just didn't come to be. So, I promised myself I would quit. And so, I did quit in 2013 to launch the company, which I'm still head of today, Virtuix. And, that's how it started.

We're now almost 10 years further. It's been a long road. We raised over 35 million dollars from investors. Mark Cuban is a big investor. We're still small, 55 people in the company today, two products in the market. We were coming out next year with our third product, which is going to be our first consumer product for the home, which is going to be our big swing at the bat. Really, the big vision we had from the start is about to come to fruition. And I think we're in for a really exciting time. And, you know, we're supposed to be the next billion-dollar company. That's why investors invested in us. And we're not there yet, but, you know, we're having an exciting time ahead of us. So, that's, in a nutshell, you know, my post-Rice career.

[33:34]Scott: That sounds fantastic. You mentioned Mark Cuban. For folks that want to see Virtuix in action, you were on Shark Tank some years ago. The entrepreneurial experience is never smooth. And so, I'd just love if you had an experience or two that you sort of reflect back on, that was kind of like a, “Oh no, what have I done here,” kind of thing, or if it was always just kind of, like, clear kind of vision. I mean, it's an incredible story. We'd just love to kind of hear your take on some of the things that you've learned.

[34:05]Jan: Yeah. The vision has always been clear. And still 10 years later, still the same vision, and it's still more and more coming to fruition, which is really neat. But it has been very hard, yeah. The biggest accomplishment, I tell folks, is that we survived, frankly. Most VR companies that started around the time I started or we started, they're long gone. It's unusual for a company, as a tech startup, to be around after 10 years. Most people are, yes, most companies are either dead or they've made it somehow or got acquired. So, we survived, accomplishment number one, but it hasn't been easy at all. Fundraising for a big piece of hardware has always been hard.

The first funding round we did, 2014, was extremely hard. Probably, the lowest point was when my wife told me, you know, Jan, if this doesn't work out, you're going to have to find a job, right? Very low point in my career, but pulled it off and never lost faith. Got the funding round done. Mark Cuban invested in that first round. He invested three times over the years, the last time in our last round two years ago.

2020 was really, really hard because our flagship product today, which was also the case in 2020 is Omni Arena, which is a turnkey attraction for big entertainment venues. We sell to Dave & Buster's, for example. In Houston, Dave & Buster's has one. Palace Social, close to Rice University, has an Omni Arena. But that's our key market, is entertainment venues. Which of course, in 2020, they all shut down. In a matter of days, our revenues went to $0 in just a few days' time, extremely hard. We laid off people, furlough, salary cuts, emergency fundraising, really stressful time. Probably, the one time where I thought that we may not make it. But through sheer, I guess, determination and perseverance, made it through it. And we have a great team as well. And survived again.

And now, we're at the cusp of delivering Omni One, which is our Omni system for the home, the big vision we had from the start. And that's looking so, so promising. So, 10 years in the making, if you will, and hopefully, an overnight success after 10 years of blood, sweat, and tears.

[36:19]Scott: Fantastic. Guys, this has been a great discussion. I kind of want to, as we kind of wrap up, I just want to ask sort of like a “what's next” question. Like, what are the things that you guys are excited about, whether in your careers or with family or time? I, you know, I don't know, Jan, if you just play video games in your spare time or if you like to go do something different sort of outside that space. But would just love to ask a “what's next” question.

[36:43]Jesus: Family-wise, the next few years are, you know, with a kid in high school and there will be some transitions pretty soon, thinking about college and all those things, right? Professionally, I am very excited about this project I'm involved with, about taking this company internationally and hopefully, increasing the size significantly. And that's kind of where we are. It's a, it has a lot of the, you know, the entrepreneurial angles, right? Going into something new, but with a very, very solid, solid foundation, which obviously reduces the risk on my end, right? So, it's really exciting.

A lot of, some of the things that I thought I was, I was actually looking at some of the, I found somewhere some of the essays that I wrote to come to Rice. And I was, I was talking at a time about, you know, the cross in international, you know, in relation, Mexico, U.S. relationship and Latin America. And, you know, my ability to understand how you do business in Mexico and in the U.S. and helping that, bridge that, I mean, the gaps, the natural gaps that occur in business. It is looking like now, it's, I'm actually having to deliver on that. So, I'm excited and I'm looking forward to it.

[37:58]Jan: Yeah, I have three kids at home, including a one-month-old baby. Plus, I have Virtuix, so I don't have any hobbies anymore. Mainly just working for Virtuix. And then in my spare time, I try to spend some nice time with my, with my family. So, what's next is a really exciting time for our company and bringing the new product to market. And hopefully, finally really writing it to high success. And I love what I do.

Even in 2020, which was so hard. Every day, I was still grateful that I got to do every day what I was doing. At that time it was very hard. But having your own company, being your own boss, growing something, building something, leading a team, I just love everything about it. And so, hope to keep doing that whole while longer.

[38:49]Scott: Love it. Jesus, Jan, thanks for taking the time and being on the show.

[38:53]Jesus: Thanks so much. Really, really enjoyed it. Anytime.

[38:55]Jan: Thanks so much. Thanks for having us.

[39:00]Scott: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The host of Owl Have You know are myself, Scott Gale, and Maya Pomroy.