[00:00] Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are. 

[00:14] Caroline: That is what really excites me, is to find something that’s truly different, that truly, it actually matters. 

[00:23] Maya: Today on Owl Have You Know, we catch up with Caroline Goodner, who earned her Full-Time MBA in 1992 – a serial entrepreneur disrupting the consumer product scene, bringing to market innovative solutions to a host of healthcare issues. We talk about her journey and passion and normalizing difficult discussions regarding healthcare, her advice for budding entrepreneurs, and how Rice Business carved her innovative pathway with its tight-knit community.

[00:52] Maya: Today, our guest is Caroline Goodner, Full-Time MBA from 1992. Welcome, Caroline. We're thrilled to have you here today.

[00:59] Caroline: I am so excited to be here. Thank you.

[01:02] Maya: So, you are the co-founder and CEO of OrganiCare, a startup company offering all-natural, over-the-counter healthcare products to consumers, better than those petrochemical-based, drug-laden products that we all know. Your range of products is first aid, oral care and feminine care products. Before OrganiCare, you were the CEO of UpSpring Baby, a consumer products company focusing on health, safety, and wellness of mothers and babies. And before that, you've founded MendelWorks, a mouse genotyping lab. Incredible. And your first baby, shortly after graduating from Rice Business, was Identigene. Identigene was a DNA identification lab, providing paternity tests to consumers and forensics DNA testing for law enforcement. I mean, wow, what an incredible entrepreneurial journey that you have had. I would love to dive in and learn more about that journey. And, you know, as I was reading your background, I realized and recognized that you're really the intersection of your parents — your father was a geneticist and your mother was an entrepreneur. So, tell me your story.

[02:13] Caroline: Yeah. Well, I mean, you're right, it all really started with them. And that's absolutely true. And certainly, they both had a lot to do with that first baby you mentioned, Identigene. And it actually also started at Rice. That's what's kind of cool about this interview. And I'm excited to be talking to you. So, yes, I grew up kind of learning about genetics and medicine and all that in my house from my dad. And my mom started a company when I was in high school. It was a genetic services company doing prenatal diagnosis and other genetic type diagnoses for cancer, bone marrow analysis, and things like that. And so, went to college, and then had a couple of years between college and business school where I worked for a big company. Learned that I didn't like that. I won't say what big company it was —

[03:01] Maya: We won't ask. We won't ask.

[03:01] Caroline: ... because I did the same thing. I did the same thing between years in business school — worked for bigger companies as an intern. And it just wasn't for me. I kind of, sort of started to realize that's probably not going to be my best fit. But it really wasn't until my second year at Rice in business school that I took Ed Williams' class on entrepreneurship. And the whole class was really about, make a business plan, get together with some partners, and fully flesh out your plan. And that was the genesis of Identigene. And so, it was partly tying together kind of what I knew from what my father was doing at Baylor College of Medicine. And they had just sort of discovered this different type of DNA identification methodology, which is now the standard for the forensic CODIS database and used worldwide for DNA genotyping. And so, we were the first private lab to use it. But yeah, so it all stemmed from that. And Ed Williams was really pivotal in making me kind of see that this was sort of what the path I wanted to follow. And so, I gave him a lot of credit. I really had a great relationship with Ed.

[04:09] Maya: Well, it's all about those professors, right?

[04:12] Caroline: Yes. Yes, it was great. It was really great.

[04:14] Maya: My entrepreneurship professor at Rice, Al Danto, I think it's very similar to me for what Ed was to you. And one of the things that Al would say in our entrepreneurship class is, you know, when is the first time that you start thinking about selling your business? And the answer is the day you start it.

[04:36] Caroline: It's a good idea. You don't know that when you start your first one, but I certainly did learn that. And I can't believe you just said Al Danto. So, in small world land, Al and I were in a forum together in the Entrepreneurs' Organization in Houston for many years. So, I love Al. He's the best. And so, we go back.

[04:55] Maya: I mean, who doesn't love Al?

[04:56] Caroline: I know, I know. He's just the most likable guy in the world.

[05:00] Maya: Wow. Well, that's incredible. But yeah, you did exit quite a few companies. So, you went through that process of entrepreneurship as well. Can you tell me, with the different businesses that you founded, that you exited, you know, what have been the best parts and what have been the most challenging parts?

[05:22] Caroline: Gosh, too numerous to mention. But you know, what comes to mind, the best part and the most challenging, certainly, in the first company, Identigene. So, I'm, you know, in my mid-20s, start the company, kind of flying by the seat of my pants, to be totally honest. And, you know, yes, we started with a business plan, and then, you know, everything changes right away. The field itself was growing. The O.J. trial happened. I know it sounds like a zillion years ago, and it was. But that sort of made, you know, DNA testing much more known to the general public. And so, we were really focused on paternity testing, which is a consumer product or service, right? And so, we were trying to, you know, get the word out that this service was available. And more people than you think needed that service. So, we sort of did some mass-advertising approaches with billboards and different things like that, that said, “1-800-DNA-TYPE, who's the father?” And so, it got a lot of attention.

[06:17] Maya: I think I remember those.

[06:20] Caroline: We did get a lot of attention, which was great. It was like free PR on top of paid advertising, which was a nice combination and made the money go further when you're spending it on marketing. But that challenge of everything growing really quickly but, you know, kind of this is the first time you've done any of it, and you know, in those first five years or so, I really was kind of flying solo and trying to sort of figure it out on my own. And this is where kind of the connection to Al Danto comes in, is I found out and joined the Entrepreneurs Organization (EO), which was back then YEO, the Young Entrepreneurs Organization. And that ended up being, really, a huge life-changing, helpful, you know, group to be in. And just having a peer group that you can talk to about, you know, the issues that you're going through, because then now you've got a peer group of people who've experienced different things before that you're going to go through. And they can share their experiences and help you, like, not feel so alone and not have to make every mistake on your own.

And so, that was probably one of the best things, was learning that and figuring out, you know, don't try to fly solo or just use your team. You need, you know, a broader group and an experienced group of people that understand what you're going through.

[07:44] Maya: Which is one of the huge benefits of Rice, you know, that network where... you know, entrepreneurs feel very lonely when you launch something. It's a very lonely journey. That it allows you to lean on others and to know that, you know what? You don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if it's going to work or not. And to have that support mechanism built in is really just a huge benefit that I have found at Rice. And it seems like you have as well. And that's something that carries through that thread of that Rice network.

[08:19] Caroline: Absolutely. And, you know, back when... you mentioned the year, 1992 is when I graduated, which was a long time ago. And Rice has, I mean... boy, what Rice has done since then? I mean, even back then, it was a fantastic school to go through, but what it has developed into, especially as an entrepreneurial powerhouse, is... you know, I'm so proud. You know, I've just, like, beamed with pride as my Rice degree continues to appreciate over time. And it really has become much more of a network of entrepreneurs. In fact, you know, I know quite a few of them in the Austin area where I live. And so, it is nice to be able to interact with those that are in the same sort of field, if you will.

[09:03] Maya: Yes. And so, OrganiCare is in Austin. And I have to say, you know, hook 'em horns, I was a horn before I earned my owl wings. So, OrganiCare is based in Austin. So, tell me the story of how that developed.

[09:18] Caroline: Yeah. So, OrganiCare, the genesis of it, you know, there are three founders. There's me, my partner, David Shockley, who's also in Austin and who is owner of a 30-year-old medical device company, and so had all the regulatory ability to make things and know, you know, the knowhow for all of that. And then we had an Italian founder, Franco Papa, who came with the technology that is the basis of most of our products. And so, this technology was developed out of a university over in Italy. And they're much more adopting of homeopathic products over there. And they're studied, and they're just more widely used.

And so, what we learned with this base substrate, which is an oxygenated olive oil, that is highly antimicrobial, it would make a great first aid ointment. And so, it was being created and made in Italy as a prescription for like wound care, you know, diabetic ulcers, really bad bed sores, things like that. And so, the idea was to, you know, bring these three people together. I have the consumer products experience and would be the operator, the CEO. David would sort of leverage his medical device company and service chairman of the company. And Franco, of course, continued to do research and development for us in Italy, because he has a lot of relationships with the medical establishment over there. And so, we decided we wanted to bring a consumer product version of this technology to the U.S. And so, that's what we did.

[10:50] Maya: Well, that's incredible. I know that olive oil, whenever, you know, your hands are really dry or anything like that, I used to put it on my hands, you know, and on the bottoms of your feet, I mean, it was a little slippery. But I'm sure that your products are a lot better than [crosstalk 00:10:13] olive oil.

[11:05] Caroline: Well, it is. And so, yes, what happens in our manufacturing process when we combine it with the oxygen is the oxygen binds with the fatty acids and the oil, and it makes a natural peroxide and it turns into an ointment during the manufacturing process. So, it becomes more like a gel or an ointment that you would apply topically. In our first products case, which is the first product was Curoxen First Aid Ointment, you apply it to wounds and, you know, they heal very quickly. And no germs can develop because it's so antimicrobial.

So, we ended up doing a lot of testing. And one of the things that differentiates the company across all its products is the sort of scientific testing that we do to validate the claims that we can make. And we can make pretty strong claims, especially for a natural product.

[11:57] Maya: As opposed to like a Neosporin or something like that.

[11:59] Caroline: Yes. I'll take your segue and go to, yeah, Neosporin is a great example. It's got three antibiotics in it. It's got petrochemicals. And 10% of people are allergic to Neosporin because of two antibiotics that are in it that are big allergens. So, you know, we're offering an alternative that is completely natural, not allergenic, and kills bacteria far, far better than the three antibiotics that are in Neosporin. We've done all the independent lab testing, and Curoxen kills, not only regular bacteria, but staph, E. coli, even MRSA, which is highly resistant to... you know, antibiotic-resistant bacteria. They can be pretty troublesome. People get hospitalized for that.

[12:44] Maya: And it's fatal.

[12:45] Caroline: Yes, yes. So, that was our first product, was Curoxen. And we made an oral care version of it to heal mouth sores. And we still make those products. But we really kind of shifted our focus when Franco and his team found out that this substrate works really well on yeast in women. So, when women get yeast infections, this clears it right up. So, we created a formulation in the U.S. for the U.S. market to fight yeast infections, and FemiClear was born. And back in 2019, we launched our first feminine health care product that was for yeast infections. And we've launched several more since then.

[13:28] Maya: So, 2019, so right before COVID, right?

[13:31] Caroline: Yes.

[13:33] Maya: That was probably a great, you know, double-edged sword before COVID, and then COVID hit, so you don't really know... you know, you can only go up, right? Sales can only go up after going through something like COVID. Now, could you tell me, have you guys encountered any sort of supply chain issues, anything like that, with any of your products because of the pandemic?

[13:58] Caroline: So, one of the things that was good luck and good planning is, in 2019, pre-pandemic, you know, our volumes were increasing. And at the time, Italy was still making all of our products for us over there. But we created a plant, got all the equipment, and we were getting our production line up and going in 2019 so that we could actually make all of our own products by 2020. And so, that ended up being a lifesaver. It's not that we don't have some supply issues sometimes on raw materials, but we then were in control of our own destiny, being able to control our own manufacturing.

[14:36] Maya: Well, that's incredible. That was perfect timing, so to speak.

[14:40] Caroline: Yeah, it was. It was. And it is really good. It is a unique characteristic of an early-stage company to be able to make, you know, your own products. Most companies like ours would've gone to a co-manufacturer. But, you know, you're really vulnerable, because you... especially with the supply chain problems, you're going to get deprioritized if you're not the biggest clients they have. And so, thankfully, we don't have to worry about that.

[15:06] Maya: So, made in the USA?

[15:09] Caroline: Made in the USA, made in Austin, Texas, yes.

[15:11] Maya: Made in Austin, Texas, even better. It's a Texan. Made in Texas, right?

[15:16] Caroline: That's right. That's right. That's right.

[15:17] Maya: So, I just want to sort of turn to feminine health issues, you know, because this is the newest product in your line of products. And have you faced any challenges in de-stigmatizing feminine healthcare issues? You know, there is definitely a stigma with that. So, talk to me a bit about that.

[15:35] Caroline: For sure. And especially, when you get into some of the new things that we are addressing with our products. So, yeast infection was one thing. You know, most women get a yeast infection at some point in their lives. Some women, unfortunately, get recurring yeast infections. They're very difficult to treat, you know. And nobody wants to talk about these things, right?

[15:53] Maya: Nope.

[15:53] Caroline: I mean, we deal with the things that nobody wants and nobody wants to talk about. So, it is difficult. We created a second product, an anti-itch product. Nobody wants to talk about vaginal itching.

And then our third product, genital herpes. I can tell you, really, nobody wants to talk about that, because that is probably the most stigmatized condition that we treat. And it's really quite a manageable condition. It's not like it's a life-threatening, terrible disease or anything. But emotionally, it can be quite crippling. And you know, that's been probably the biggest thing that we've learned, is that, you know, for those consumers with herpes... first of all, one in five women has it. So, you're not alone if you have it. It's a very, very common condition. And more women than men get it, about twice as many women as men get it, or know that they get it, because just the symptoms show up more predominantly in women. And a lot of people can have it and not even know that they have it.

So, it's a troubling one because it is stigmatized. And so, we are trying to do everything that we can to, you know, kind of take it out of the closet and make people feel okay. Nobody's going to jump up and down, you know, happy that they get it, but they shouldn't feel ashamed, for sure. And they shouldn't feel embarrassed. It's a common, common condition that can be really easily managed.

But one of the things that, you know, is a feature of it is you get outbreaks. So, little blisters form exactly like a cold sore. In fact, the cold sore is a herpes virus condition as well. It just shows up on your lips instead of your genitals. And so, we're just wanting to talk about it.

So, conversations like this are perfect for helping make it normalized, you know, and make women and men that deal with the condition feel less closeted about it. And hopefully, they can just know this is a normal health condition. Everybody's got something. If you have herpes or if you have a yeast infection, or a latest condition that we're treating is bacterial vaginosis, another condition that's considered an STI. But again, nobody wants to get these things. But when they do, you know, we want them to know that there's health and somewhere to go and a healthier, more effective alternative than what's been out there in the past.

[18:12] Maya: Sure. And you are a female entrepreneur.

[18:14] Caroline: Yes.

[18:16] Maya: And I want to turn to that because the Hoover Institute out of Stanford, I was reading an article where women still earn 17% less than men. So, that's $83 for every $100 that a man earns. Tell me how... I mean, you started in 1993. So, you've seen the transitions and having more women enter the entrepreneurial realm, so to speak. So, what advice could you give female entrepreneurs that are just starting out about, you know, what you have learned, your lessons?

[18:49] Caroline: Yeah. You know, first of all, join the club. Glad to have you. More, you know, power in numbers and all of that is true. The other thing I'll say, you know, kind of referencing what I said before, get a peer group. Find some other entrepreneurs, women or men, to surround yourself with, to share stories, to talk through problems. There are really a lot of different groups. You know, I happen to belong to EO. There are a lot of other groups that are entrepreneurial-focused groups. Yeah, there's a group called FemTech Focus that is, you know, focused on the feminine health area. So, I mean, whatever industry you're in, there may be groups that you can join or just entrepreneurial groups. But it is really important to have peers and people that you can talk to, to help you through it.

And there's also a lot more developing — and I've joined some of them — groups or organizations that help women entrepreneurs, in particular. There's one in Austin called Beam. And I'm one of the mentors in that group. And I just think that these organizations, you know, focus on trying to help women get funding and know how to do their pitches and HR practices and different things like that. These support systems are burgeoning, and really there to be used. So, take advantage of them.

[20:13] Maya: Absolutely. And what have you learned about leading a company with these female-centered products? Did you run into challenges because of it?

[20:20] Caroline: So, we do run into challenges. There are things that have been so surprising. Like, you have your advertising and you try to put an ad on Facebook and they'll disallow it because it's got sensitive content. But, you know, you could put a man's ED product on, you know, and advertise it anywhere you want. So, I mean, it's very interesting.

[20:42] Maya: Lopsided.

[20:44] Caroline: Completely lopsided, yes, and unbalanced, all that stuff. And so, we do kind of wonder at it. There's been a lot of conversation about that in the women's health world. And so, you know, I think, hopefully, it’ll all normalize out as these things are... you know, a light is shined on these minor injustices, so to speak. But it is also interesting, and why the feminine health space is becoming so hot is because there has been so little attention given to women's health issues, particularly, like the ones that we deal with—you know, yeast infections, bacterial vaginosis, genital herpes. These are, again, not life-threatening conditions, but they're very, you know, uncomfortable, inconvenient. They mess up your day. They mess up your life when you've got, you know, an infection or an outbreak or something like that. And doctors in the past, when doctors were more male than female, weren't as concerned about these things. And so, now—

[21:45] Maya: Well, because they didn't know what it felt like. There was no basis.

[21:46] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And I don't think it would be... Yes, that's right. And, I mean, there's amazing statistics out there on how, you know, clinical studies didn't include women until the '70s.

[21:59] Maya: Wow.

[22:00] Caroline: All of these, all the kind of studies that were ever done were really male-focused. And so, now, we're hopefully getting more and more attention on women's health. And so, companies like ours that are trying to help women in that way, it feels good.

[22:13] Maya: Absolutely. You've come a long way. We all have. And there's a long way to go. And it's a journey, right?

[22:21] Caroline: That's right.

[22:22] Maya: And it's more about the journey, not so much the destination, maybe.

[22:24] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And I definitely love and feel the pay-it-forward calling. So, whenever I can help someone or talk to them about their business, first of all, it just energizes me. I love doing it. I could talk about new businesses, different businesses all day long. And I love that aspect of it at my stage in my career, especially.

[22:47] Maya: So, what would be some of your advice for healthcare startups? I mean, we're here in Houston. There's quite a bit of healthcare startups, with the TMC and TMCx. So, what would be some of your advice for those that are about to launch some healthcare?

[23:02] Caroline: Well, being in Houston — and I am a Houstonian, and, again, my father was in the medical center there for many, many years — there is so much breakthrough, great science, and technology that can be found. And I've lucked into, to be frank, the great technology that I've been able to leverage in the businesses that I've run. And so, you know, that is what really excites me, is to find something that's truly different, that truly, it actually matters, either in the medical field or to a consumer. My world is more consumer-oriented. So, different that isn't fundamentally better for a consumer, isn't necessarily great. But if it's different and really makes a step change in the way they live their lives or they handle their healthcare, that's exciting.

And so, you know, for me, whether it was the DNA testing methodology that made it more robust and faster, or now, in my world today, treating and eliminating symptoms much, much faster without being exposed to antibiotics or antifungal drugs is just a hugely disruptive change in the way women can treat these conditions. And so, I would say, if you can find a technology that you think can make a real difference, not just like a tweak of a difference, but a real fundamental difference in the way a consumer handles their healthcare, that's something to really pay attention to.

[24:33] Maya: That competitive advantage and value proposition needs to be tied up very well.

[24:36] Caroline: Yeah, right.

[24:40] Maya: Well, so, let's go back to becoming a serial entrepreneur. What are some lessons that you've learned with the MendelWorks and with UpSpring Baby and all of those? Let's go back and talk about those a little bit. So, the very first one, right. So, we talked about Identigene, and then you moved on to MendelWorks, which was the mouse genotyping technology. Could you tell me about that? Like, just that path, it seems like it was DNA-based, and then we went to mothers. Are you a mother?

[25:12] Caroline: I am a mother. I have an 18-year-old son going off to college in the fall and a daughter who's 16. And yeah, so full teenhood at my house. It's exciting. And close to empty nesting, which is scary and fun for them and all that sort of stuff. But yes.

[25:30] Maya: Was UpSpring Baby … did you develop that while you had little kiddos in the house?

[25:35] Caroline: I did have little kids. I was not a founder. So, I was an investor in that company when it was kind of still in early stages, you know, and got really involved with the founders. And then, after about six weeks of talking to them, they asked me to be CEO. So, I took over as CEO after that round of funding, and ran it for about four years. And I'm happy to say we went from, you know, not profitable to profitable in a couple of years. So, one of the founders took back over when I left and grew it, and they sold it to Reckitt Benckiser a couple of years ago. That was a great path.

[26:09] Maya: And so, how did you juggle? You were the mom of two kids, right? A wife, there was lots of responsibilities. And also, you know, starting these incredible businesses and exiting them and coming up with new ideas. And, you know, that's fascinating to be able to do that, considering that, you know, there are quite a few challenges that women face.

[26:29] Caroline: For sure. And it's a great way you framed it up. And for sure, that was a difficult time because Identigene was in Houston and, you know, I was operating it. And if I had known Al's advice, Al Danto's advice, back then, I would've known I should've been thinking about the exit. But I hadn't been. I was just sort of going and having fun. And so, I ran Identigene for 14 years. But during that 14 years, I got married, had two kids, moved to Austin. I was commuting back and forth from Houston to Austin with two young kids. And it just became untenable. And so, that's when I started thinking about an exit, which I'll say was good luck because I started thinking about it and did it in 2007, right before the, you know, crash of 2008, and the recession that followed. So, I was happy to have a, you know, really good exit and sold it to a strategic company.

And Identigene continues to actually be sold as a consumer product in CVS and Walgreens and all those CV Identigene paternity tests. So, it's nice to see, you know, your baby live on.

I'll tell you, the big lesson learned there was, I had started MendelWorks as sort of, what's the next big thing we're going to do? But I started it as a separate company a year or two before I sold Identigene. And I moved MendelWorks to Austin. And what I realized is, going from running a company for 14 years and throwing yourself into something new without any downtime or transition was, for me, a mistake. And I've heard this from a lot of entrepreneurs, that, especially if you run something for that long, you need a break.

And so, you know, I had started MendelWorks and we were getting some good traction and getting going. But I ended up realizing that was, you know, too quick of a transition. And I couldn't just keep going, I needed a break. And I actually sold MendelWorks to another company that was doing the same sort of work. And I took about eight months off, you know, not knowing how long it might be, to spend time with my kids. And so, I just sort of needed that, you know, break to exhale.

And it was great. And what I learned was, number one, you know, that was the break that I needed. It was wonderful to spend that time with the kids. And I also realized I needed to work.

[28:48] Maya: Right (laughs).

[28:50] Caroline: And so, that's when I started investing. And I was, you know, in a good position after, you know, having sold Identigene, to look into a lot of different companies and see what I might be interested in. And I was looking for, not just an investment, but also, potentially, you know, some sort of role in the company. And that's where UpSpring came into play. And so, got to know the founders really well, great women, who were... they called themselves mompreneurs, you know, and came up with products sort of being moms themselves.

And so, you know, joining them and doing that was, you know, a great way for me to get back into something that I didn't have to found, you know, and also, to get into the consumer products business. And I learned a lot from that experience.

[29:40] Maya: So, beyond healthcare, what consumer products categories do you think are most in need of development and true innovation?

[29:49] Caroline: Gosh, that's a great question. You know, I think it's probably anywhere where we just feel like the same products have been on the market for a really long time. One of the things that I heard a long time ago was that, if the number one seller is a brand and the number two seller is a private label version of that, that is a category in dire need of innovation. And so, you know, the categories that we've been in, that has been the case, so with Neosporin and private label Neosporin and MONISTAT and private label MONISTAT. These are categories where the same thing has been around for a long time. And that's why I think OTC healthcare is, you know, in a great place to be disrupted, because we just sort of had the same products for a long time on the market. So, you know, a number of years ago, food and beverage was, you know, Coke and Pepsi and Lay's. And now, you've got a proliferation of all manner of different snack, foods and drinks. And everything's getting healthier and better for you.

[30:56] Maya: Now, you have Topo Chico as an option (laughs).

[30:58] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And like, gosh, the water... who would've thought the water category, 23 years ago, would've been so big? But it's huge. So, I'm trying to think of what the next thing is. I'm so in my own space with healthcare. But there probably are other healthcare areas that I think certainly could use some disruption that, you know, do things that are on the market now or just not that... don't treat the condition very well or the ingredients in the products are, you know, known to be not that healthy.

[31:30] Maya: Well, and that's also something that, in the last, you know, decade or so, I mean, it was parabens. I remember it so well where now everything is paraben-free because, you know, parabens were literally in everything. And you start looking at what the ingredients are. And, you know, that's definitely something that we've learned. It was really in the past decade, wasn't it?

[31:51] Caroline: Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, now, you see so many products with, you know, icons for what's not included. You know, instead of what's in it, it's what's not in it. It seems to be what's highlighted. I guess, cleaning products, that's another area that we've had the same sort of thing. And people are much more aware of and nervous about chemicals. When people start families, they get really concerned about it because they don’t want the baby crawling around on the floor that might have, you know, some terrible chemicals on them. So, I think that's an area that's in the process of being disrupted as well.

[32:26] Maya: And I think people have been sitting around for two years thinking about those things.

[32:30] Caroline: Yes.

[32:31] Maya: So, hopefully, there will be an explosion in the next year or so of new products, because I think that, you know, what COVID did do is given us a whole lot of time to sit and think about a whole lot of things and—

[32:35] Caroline: That's right.

[32:36] Maya: ... and reassess and prioritize what our values are and how we want to live in the future. And it was really a forced time-out.

[32:53] Caroline: It was. And it is amazing to me just how well things worked even during the pandemic. I mean, I was amazed that, you know, we were a very much in-office kind of company. And everybody forced to be at home, other than our production team and our logistics team, they still had to make andship product. I was surprised at how well that worked. You know, so that legacy carries on.

And to your point, everybody has re-evaluated. How do I want to live? Where do I want to live? You know, recruiting now is completely different than it used to be. Even though I think Austin is a great and very attractive city to recruit to, you can't demand those things anymore. For people that can work remotely, they want to live where they want to live. But it does broaden your pool of candidates.

[33:41] Maya: So, what's on the horizon for you?

[33:44] Caroline: I am really focused on bringing additional products in the vaginal healthcare space to market. And like I said, we are literally just launching our BV (bacterial vaginosis) product, which is the most common condition that women have. And then we have several, you know, ideas for future concepts coming out in the next few years. So, we're just looking forward to, you know, continuing to develop things so that, whenever you think about vaginal health, if you think about it, you know where to go. And there's a natural, effective, healthier solution, you know, that's accessible without a prescription. Because a lot of the conditions, like herpes and BV, those are really only treatable by prescription. And they don't treat the symptoms very well. They may help you not have as many infections, or they may help you not have as many outbreaks, but they don't really treat the discomfort that comes along with those.

[34:40] Maya: Well, with your incredible background, would you ever consider coming and teaching at Rice? Because I think you would be great.

[34:48] Caroline: I love Rice so much. In fact, the last time I was in Houston, I went through the campus. It's just so beautiful. And I would love to do that. And in fact, you know, someday, if I'm not doing this company, like I mentioned, I love the part of kind of my career path that's moving into feeling, you know, the need to give back and be helpful and see what new young entrepreneurs might want to do and how I can be of help. And that sounds right in line with it. So, I would love to do that.

[35:18] Maya: Well, we would love to have you, I'm just telling you. Like, I'll go audit your class and sit in there with you, because it'd be fascinating. Is there anything else that you'd like to add that I haven't asked?

[35:30] Caroline: No. Gosh, I think you've been really great and thorough. And, you know, I am so passionate about women's health and like wanting to... the whole issue of, let's keep talking about it so that these things become normalized. The emotional toll it takes on women and how much shame and hurt they carry over things that, really, are so common and so, you know, not that big a deal. But I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. And hopefully, at least a few people, you know, who may have felt worse or more alone don't after this.

[36:10] Maya: Well, I mean, that's what it's all about, is to normalize and bring to the table that conversation. Those uncomfortable conversations shouldn't be so uncomfortable, you know.

[36:18] Caroline: That's right. That's right.

[36:19] Maya: I mean I've got two daughters. And I want to be able to discuss these things with them in a very open sort of way, so that it's not shameful or degrading or humiliating or any of those things. So, just wanted to thank you for bringing that here today for Owl Have You Know. It's been a pleasure to talk with you.

[36:39] Caroline: Thank you so much, Maya. I really appreciate it.

[36:43] Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts and announcements on our website: business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We’d love to hear what you think. 

The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale. 

[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

[00:14] Pierre: I tell my family, if it wasn't for Rice, I wouldn't be here today. Rice actually saved my life. Accepting me into the program and the support that I got, that it looks like it was meant to happen the way it did, but it was all a coincidence.

[00:28] Christine: Before becoming an entrepreneur, Pierre Aristide, Rice Business Executive MBA Class of 2022, was a U.S. Air Force Reserve officer and a rotary and fixed-wing pilot for almost 30 years. Today, he talks about his experiences in the military, project management and finance, and why he's so passionate about mental health and psychiatric care, and how his cohort was by his side as he battled one of his biggest challenges yet.

Joining us today on Owl Have You Know is Pierre Aristide, Rice Business Executive MBA Class of 2022. Thank you so much for joining us, Pierre.

[01:08] Pierre: Thank you for having me.

[01:10] Christine: Well, when it comes to alums, I guess we could say you are about as new as they come, just graduating. What does it feel like? How does it feel to be finished?

[01:19] Pierre: Well, it's been 24 days, slowly sinking in. In fact, I had the opportunity to talk to some of my former classmates and it seems like we are all experiencing the same thing. It's like the additional time that we have on our hands, we're, you know, still trying to figure out what to do with the extra time. So, everybody's going through this withdrawal for right now. But, you know, the good thing is we finished together, and it feels good, just onto the next journey.

[01:58] Christine: Well, congratulations. And I have a feeling you'll quickly find how to fill that time.

[02:02] Pierre: I'm trying to. I'm trying not to do too much and get overwhelmed.

[02:07] Christine: You started the program right in the middle of the pandemic. What was that experience like? And how did that really kind of shape your class? And I don't know, you know, how much you guys were in person versus virtual overall, but I'm sure that had an impact.

[02:22] Pierre: Yes. I mean, it was new to a lot of us. We started the Executive Forum was the first class, and it was all done online. Then, we went to a hybrid session, where some of it was online and the other part was in a classroom. It was a very flexible platform that they offered us, which was good. But it was a blessing in disguise at the same time because, throughout the program, especially around the second semester, I was diagnosed with cancer, and being able to do it on Zoom, having that hybrid flexibility really helped out. Had that not been put in place, I probably would not have been able to graduate with my class in May.

[03:10] Christine: Getting that diagnosis in the middle of such an, you know, intense program, how were you able to navigate and get through that? And what was the support like from the class?

[03:21] Pierre: It's almost like... I have to say it was a blessing in disguise, not the fact that I was diagnosed with cancer, but it was a blessing that, at the time when it happened, because I have to say I was at the right place at the right time to where I was able to receive the needed support to survive. Because the way my diagnosis was discovered, it was by accident. And it just so happened, when I was informed of it, it was so far into…you know, my body, I was told, had 96% of cancer. And it just so happened I was around the right people. Some of my classmates who were oncologists. They work at MD Anderson. They were able to step in and have me transition from where I was to MD Anderson. And within three months, they put me in remission, and I was able to go back to class. Almost like that same... at the end of the semester, I believe, I was able to attend class in person.

I tell my family, if it wasn't for Rice, I wouldn't be here today. Rice actually saved my life. Accepting me into the program and the support that I got, that it looks like it was meant to happen the way it did, but it was all a coincidence. I'm thankful that I was able to attend Rice at the time I was accepted.

[04:44] Christine: Well, we hear so much about the Rice network, but really, in the capacity of a professional setting. And in this case, the Rice network that you met through school had a tremendous personal impact and outcome.

[04:58] Pierre: It did. It did. It's interesting because, when I look back and look at the whole experience, you know, applying to business school, getting accepted at Rice, and meeting some of the folks that I had the blessing of meeting, and the experience, all of that just kind of shaped the kind of person that I am today.

If you'll ask me who I was prior to Rice, I would describe to you a whole different person. And the person that I am today through, I mean, two years of experience, I mean, all types of things—the pandemic, you know, cancer, and I can name a bunch of stuff—to be able to have been given the strength to navigate through all of them, understanding them, and responding to them instead of reacting, it is a blessing that it will leave you differently. It will leave you a different person, for the better.

In terms of resiliency, you know, there is a quote by Bob Marley. It's like, you'll never know how strong you are until strong is the only thing left, something left you have, you know. So, I never knew how strong I was until I started going through, you know, these experiences. And I quickly realized you are never given more than you can handle. Whatever you are given, the strength to negotiate that particular challenge also comes with the challenge. You just have to figure it out.

[06:30] Christine: Well, thank you for sharing that. And we're so glad that you're in remission and doing so well.

[06:37] Pierre: Thank you. Thank you.

[06:39] Christine: I want to go back to your path before Rice Business, quite an interesting journey that you had. I know that you were in the U.S. Air Force Reserves, 30 years you spent?

[06:54] Pierre: 27 years.

[06:55] Christine: 27 years?

[06:56] Pierre: Yeah, close to it, yes.

[06:58] Christine: So, can you talk a little bit about your time, your experience, and what led you to that path initially?

[07:06] Pierre: Well, I mean, it started when I was a kid, actually. I grew up in Haiti. And I remember when I was a kid, we lived about 40 minutes outside of the capital. And every day, we would watch planes fly over, leaving the airport going to the United States, either Miami or New York. And I was always fascinated about, you know, I'd never seen an airplane close, you know, real close. So, I never really gauged the real size and the true size of an airplane, right? So, it would fly over. In my mind, I'm thinking it's probably the same size of a car, but not understanding relative motion and distance and all of that.

So, I'd always say, "You know what? I'm going to learn how to drive one of those." And I remember one of my friends, my childhood friend, would say, you know, said, "You can't drive. It's a stick shift." I'm like, "No, you know, it's probably automatic. I'm sure they make them automatic, just like regular cars." We had no idea about the systemology. We're just make making up stuff, right?

So, fast forward, at 13, my parents were here before us. So, they sent for us. And I came here when I was 13. And one of the things that I always was fascinated with, not just flying, but joining the military. I wanted to be a soldier. You know, I watched a lot of movies where I wanted to be a soldier, right?

So, 18 come, you know, finished high school. I joined and enlisted, thinking like I'm going to go straight to flight school. And they were like, "Oh, no, you have to go to college, become an officer." But my recruiter didn't tell me that, right? So, I go in, four years enlisted. And I'm like, no, that's not what I want to do. I want to be a pilot. So, I went to Desert Storm as enlisted, came back and enrolled in college, and became an officer. And I selected aviation. And they actually, you know, selected me to go to flight school. I was just like, wow. So, I took the test, passed them, went to flight school. And I started out flying helicopters. And then, I was transitioning into jet, where I flew a variety of jets in the Air Force toward the end of my career.

But the interesting thing is, you know, my friend—my childhood friend—since passed away. And I remember running into him because I had an assignment in my home country to work with the UN. And while I was at the U.S. Embassy, I ran into him. And I told him, I said, "Hey, man, guess what? Man, I fulfilled the dream for both of us. I'm a pilot." He was like, "No, you're not." I said, "I am." And I said, "Guess what? It's nuts, they don't make them automatic or standard shift. It's a whole different system." He started laughing. He started laughing.

Yeah, so basically, it was a lifelong dream to become a pilot. And finally, when I got to do it, it was surreal because it didn't feel like work. I mean 27 years didn't feel like work at all. It was always... every day was fun, except, you know, when we had to deploy and go to combat and, you know, leave our families behind. But other than that, I enjoyed doing it. And if I had the opportunity to do it all over again, I would sign up and pack my bag and go to flight school all over again.

[10:32] Christine: That's how you know you found your true passion, if it never seemed like work.

[10:36] Pierre: That's true. You're absolutely right.

[10:39] Christine: So, let's talk a little bit about after the military, you worked at Verizon, and then also, Merrill Lynch. Can you talk a little bit about that transition and what led you there?

[10:48] Pierre: When I went back to the military, I ended up going into reserve. I didn't go back on active duty. So, I kind of like had the best of both worlds. I was flying in the reserve and I held a professional position in the private sector with Verizon. I spent a number of years there, started out as a business representative. And I was promoted a couple of times. And when I left, I was an associate director. And that's when I was recruited by Merrill Lynch to do the same thing that I was doing at Verizon. So, I was at Merrill Lynch for about two years around the... that's when they had the housing bubble on the burst in 2008.

And when that happened, I had the opportunity to go back in the military. They asked me to come in to fill some active duty slots. And that was at the height of the tours that were going on, the Iraqi War and Afghanistan. So, I was able to support the military in various positions, did some long-term tours in Afghanistan, ended up serving in Germany for a year where I was the... I worked in their logistics directorate. And my role was to go to Africa and negotiate contracts on behalf of an Africa command that was based out in Germany.

So, I got to visit Africa for six months, just going around. That was a beautiful experience. Came back, and I was stationed at the Pentagon, working for the vice chief of staff, developing a program with the Air Force called... at the time when we did it, it was called the Air Force Resiliency Program. And then, I did several tours with the military. Then, I went back into the private sector. At this time, I was recruited by a government agency, U.S. Office of Personnel Management. This is almost like the HR of the government. So, I ran one of the divisions. And then I was recruited by the Department of State to do the same thing for them. I was there for about three years. And I decided to, I guess, retire from the... not retire, but resign and pursue entrepreneurship. And that's how I got into Impireum Psychiatric Group.

So, with Impireum Psychiatric Group, well, I was diagnosed... because of the several tours at the military, I was diagnosed with PTSD. And with that came several visits, mental health treatment with psychiatrists, therapists and all of those. And while they try to do a good job to accommodate and treat us, I just felt like the experience could have been different. It could have been better, to better address... And I said better, not because they didn't have the resources, but I think the resources could have been managed differently to better assist us.

I understand there were a lot of people coming back from the war who needed help. And the system wasn't structured well enough to support all of those things. So, with my experience developing the resiliency program for the Air Force, because like the health and wellness program, I already had the idea and I had the resources available to create one in the commercial sector. So, I did some research and talked to my wife who's a psychiatrist. I presented it to her, and I created a plan and showed it to her. And she was like, "Let's do it." And we did it. And 2018 is when we started. And we have grown by almost 300% since we started.

Basically, Impireum Psychiatric Group is an experience. It's designed after the experience that I wanted to have when I was being treated for PTSD. And it's almost like a spa for mental health, because that's what I wanted to experience. I wanted to go somewhere where I could be comfortable to talk and don't feel awkward if somebody else was sitting there next to me, waiting to be seen.

So, when you show up to Impireum, what you see is a group of people who are happy to be there. And they're talking to each other, collaborating and sharing their experiences. And it's part of the treatment. From the time they seek us out to the time they are seen, it's the entire experience, is what we strive for — to have a great, positive mental health journey experience.

[15:34] Christine: And as co-founder, what have you learned from this experience, so far, from the actual patients who are using this service?

[15:42] Pierre: The first thing is the reviews, right? I read all the reviews. And the reviews reflect exactly the experience that I wanted everybody to have. If you ever go on our website, you read the reviews, it's exactly what I was shooting for. Of course, there's always room for improvement, right? But when I talk to patients, one of the things they tell me that, you know, sticks with me is that, I don't feel... I don't have to worry about the stigma anymore. Coming here, I feel I'm very comfortable coming here and talk my issues out. And I don't feel judged. I don't feel... and I don't know if other people do it, but it's designed to let them come in and be free to express themselves without feeling that there's something wrong with them. And that's a lot of feedback that I get from the patient.

[16:35] Christine: Well, I'm noticing a common thread here when you talk about the things that you've pursued. While your path certainly hasn't been linear, it seems like you've always really followed passion and projects that have a deep connection to something you enjoy or a cause that you feel a personal connection to.

[16:54] Pierre: Yeah. Thanks for bringing it up. I don't know how to be any other way. And I've always been like that. And it wasn't done on purpose. You know, I always felt like if you're going to... if something is worth doing, you should do it well. Everything I've ever done in my life had personal value to me. It wasn't... anybody who knows me will tell you I have that maverick personality. I don't follow the crowd. I take my value proposition very seriously. Anything that I do, if it doesn't have a good value proposition, I tend to rethink it.

Because of that reason, too, because I still understand what my purpose is most of the time, that it's hard for me to communicate it. I'll almost have to do it, and then explain it. Because, you know, we each walk around with our vision, with our own values. And sometimes, it's hard to communicate them. And it's sometimes hard for people to understand. Even in your execution, they still don't understand it until you fully are able to explain it. It's one thing I'm working on, but in reality, everything that I believe anybody undertake, it should be something that has a personal value. It's almost like taking care of a child. Every project is like a child to me. And I take that responsibility very, very seriously.

[18:25] Christine: So, in your work in mental health, do you feel that there is more... I know you talked about the way sometimes people feel when they reach out to get help or admitting they need help. Do you feel like the tide is turning a little bit? I know there's been a lot more attention, it seems like, on mental health, but what else do you see needing to happen to really... to get us to where we need to be?

[18:50] Pierre: I have to say that I've seen a lot of improvement in access to mental health. Although there's still room for improvement, people are taking it seriously now. They're actually seeking mental healthcare. I see the stigmas being reduced. Our purpose is to reduce the stigma in as much as possible.

Where I think it's going with mental health, particularly the business aspect of it, I see it moving away from fee-for-service to value-based care, meaning you don't go see a clinician, you know, for just this depression, there could be a lot of other issues surrounding the depression. However, if your insurance doesn't approve it, the provider can only treat that—the depression. Well, you can treat the depression all you want to, but the other underlying issues, if they're not taken care of, you're just going to keep seeing a mental health provider for the rest of your life.

So, what I say, what I think needs to be done, is to go, you know, from fee-for-service to a value-based approach where, okay, you come to us with an issue, right: depression. And we have to figure out where the depression... what's causing it. You know, we should be allowed to treat the entire person the way we see fit so they don't have to come back, so they can have a coping mechanism to go and deal with it and actually be healed from whatever mental health experience that they are going through. So, the one way... and I see a lot of providers trying to address it, I attended a seminar at the Washington campus around healthcare. And it's one of the buzzwords, value-based. Everybody's pushing for it.

So, healthcare, it's not an easy thing to fix. It's huge. It's probably one of the biggest industries out there. It's broken, yes. But how do you fix it? It's a question that everybody is asking. There's no panacea approach to fixing it. I just think that, on my end, as a practice owner, it is to try to guide the clinic in that direction in as much as possible, so when the time comes, you know, we just go ahead and run with it and take care of our patient in the way that they need to be treated.

[21:20] Christine: You've had a pretty broad career path before you came to Rice Business. What led you to pursue an Executive MBA at this point in your career?

[21:32] Pierre: Well, looking back at everything that happened, I would say Rice chose me, not because I'm good or anything, just, they rescued me, in so many ways. One, by allowing me to be part of their community, because I've been out of school for a while. And when I started the business, I have a lot of military leadership experience. I can look at processes based on my training. I can put an operation together real quick and make it successful if I have to rely... relying solely on my military experience, I can do that. However, I didn't have the business skills required to scale the business to where it would be as successful as it needed to be. And for that to happen, I needed to understand business. And the best way to understand business as an entrepreneur is to attend business school. And if you're going to attend business school and you want to learn entrepreneurship, Rice is the place to be. And to do it at the executive level, it's even gravy. You know what I mean? It's even better.

So, that said, it's one institution, I have to say…and I have spent 27 years in the military, going to different military educational programs. That is one of the most organized, rewarding educational experiences I've ever had. Actually, everything I've learned, I have applied in my business. What it did for me, too, it validated everything that I did. And also, validated things that weren’t too great as well, that I needed to improve on.

So, that experience has been different from anything that I've done. I didn't go there to be a specialist in anything. I didn't go there to be an accountant or, you know, data scientist or any other stuff, right? Because that's not my purpose. My purpose was to be able to do the same thing that I was doing in the military in the business world. And Rice has taught me that. It made me a little bit more dedicated to what I'm doing now, because now I feel like I know what I'm doing. And there's no room for failure because I have all the tools. And even if I don't know it, I can always reach out. I know people I can reach out to Rice to help me with everything. So, it's a great experience. It was a great experience.

[23:58] Christine: Do you have any advice you would offer, maybe, a current entrepreneur who is considering the Rice Business program?

[24:05] Pierre: My advice to anybody going to business school, go in there with a purpose. Don't go in there and try to follow what everybody else is doing. Don't go in there to fit in. Don't go in there to be known, because you went to Rice as a Rice alumni. Do it because you have a purpose. And that purpose will be your guiding light. That purpose, you will not deviate from that purpose. Everything that you learn is going to be towards helping you achieve that purpose. So, my advice for anybody going in, go in there with your purpose, and don't deviate. And understand that your opinion is only an opinion, that other people are going to challenge your opinion and be able to defend it. And if you can’t defend it, that tells you, you need to come with a better argument. It's not a place to compete. It's a place to collaborate, create allies. And through your alliances, you develop friendships. And if you leave business school and you don't leave with any friends, you don't make any alliances, that's fine. That's fine. So, don't beat yourself up. It doesn't mean anything. It's just, sometimes, when you focus on your purpose, it will take you in the direction that you need to be taken to achieve it. And sometimes, it means going alone. So, my advice is, you know, have a reason why you're going to a business school, not just because it looks good on your resume. Have a purpose, and the experience will support your purpose.

[25:42] Christine: That intent, yes.

[25:43] Pierre: Yeah.

[25:44] Christine: Well, is there anything else you would like to add that I haven't asked you about?

[25:48] Pierre: We're about to launch a new business. I have a good friend of mine. We went to college together, undergrad. We served in the military. And he owned Durato International. He is in the flooring business. He just reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to be his distributor in the Texas, West Coast, and the Midwest region. So, as of yesterday, we signed a contract. And I'm about to launch a distribution hub in Texas for Durato in the USA. It's going to be called Durato Texas.

[26:20] Christine: Wow. So, is this your official move into serial entrepreneurship?

[26:27] Pierre: I guess, if you have three businesses, yeah, the third one you consider it serial entrepreneurship. Actually, this is my fourth one. This is my fourth one, so—

[26:36] Christine: Oh, okay. Well, maybe you were there before this, then.

[26:38] Pierre: I don't know. At what point are you considering a serial entrepreneur? How many—

[26:43] Christine: That's a good question. Maybe, we should ask some of the faculty at Rice Business.

[26:49] Pierre: Well, actually, I am enrolling in a PhD program in Organizational Leadership and Entrepreneurship.

[26:57] Christine: Oh, wow.

[26:58] Pierre: So, maybe, that could be a question that I develop as my thesis.

[27:02] Christine: Yes.

[27:04] Pierre: At what point are you considered a serial entrepreneurship? How many businesses and what are the conditions around it?

[27:10] Christine: Right, right.

[27:11] Pierre: That's a good question to develop, yeah.

[27:13] Christine: Well, we want to thank you so much for joining us. You have accomplished so much and a real inspiration to those around you. And it looks like you've got a full plate ahead with all of your projects that you've got going.

[27:27] Pierre: Well, yeah. I'd like to thank before we go... Thank you very much. But I'd like to thank my team at Rice. We call ourselves the elephant eaters, right?

[27:36] Christine: Elephant eaters, okay.

[27:37] Pierre: Elephant eaters, so we like, you know, to eat an elephant one bite at a time.

[27:41] Christine: Yes.

[27:41] Pierre: I was part of a team that actually lived up to that model. I want to send a shoutout to Anup Shah, is an orthopedic surgeon who was part of our team. We have Michael Ellis. We call him Merlin, very wise man, very quiet. But when he spoke, he spoke value. He was the proxy leader of our team. And we had Einstein Mark Rooney, engineer, very dry humor. But he was a funny guy, even his dry humor. You know, he will tell a joke. And you're like, is he serious or is he joking? So, he kept us laughing a little bit. Also had Mike Simon, a very accomplished consultant. I mean, if you get a chance to meet him, you know you're talking to a consultant. I mean, he look at things from different angles and always come up with answers. We have Tiffany Umbehr. As a matter of fact, shoutout to Tiffany. Congratulations. She just got selected to become an executive vice president and managing director in a very prominent consulting firm. I can't remember the name right now. So, Tiffany, if you're listening, congratulations. And I think that's it on our team. I hope I didn't forget anybody. And then me. That's it. EMBA Class 2022, congratulations, everyone. You know, Keri and Luis for leading us, and Ragan Crowell for taking care of all our social events, along with Megan, and everybody else. Class of 2022 EMBA, one and only, would never be replaced by anybody else. Congratulations on making this happen. Thank you.

[29:26] Christine: Well, thank you for joining us today on Owl Have You Know, Pierre Aristide, Rice Business EMBA Class of 2022. Congratulations, again.

[29:36] Pierre: Thanks for having me, and looking forward to another invitation.

[29:40] Christine: Thank you.

[29:43] Outro: This has been Owl Have You Know. Thanks for listening. You can find links and more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please, subscribe to this podcast where you find your favorite podcast. And leave us a comment while you're at it and let us know what you think.

Owl Have You Know is a production of Rice Business and is sponsored by the Rice Business Alumni Board. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, David Droogleever, and Christine Dobbyn.