At the Forefront of Female Health feat. Caroline Goodner ’92

[00:00] Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are. 

[00:14] Caroline: That is what really excites me, is to find something that’s truly different, that truly, it actually matters. 

[00:23] Maya: Today on Owl Have You Know, we catch up with Caroline Goodner, who earned her Full-Time MBA in 1992 – a serial entrepreneur disrupting the consumer product scene, bringing to market innovative solutions to a host of healthcare issues. We talk about her journey and passion and normalizing difficult discussions regarding healthcare, her advice for budding entrepreneurs, and how Rice Business carved her innovative pathway with its tight-knit community.

[00:52] Maya: Today, our guest is Caroline Goodner, Full-Time MBA from 1992. Welcome, Caroline. We're thrilled to have you here today.

[00:59] Caroline: I am so excited to be here. Thank you.

[01:02] Maya: So, you are the co-founder and CEO of OrganiCare, a startup company offering all-natural, over-the-counter healthcare products to consumers, better than those petrochemical-based, drug-laden products that we all know. Your range of products is first aid, oral care and feminine care products. Before OrganiCare, you were the CEO of UpSpring Baby, a consumer products company focusing on health, safety, and wellness of mothers and babies. And before that, you've founded MendelWorks, a mouse genotyping lab. Incredible. And your first baby, shortly after graduating from Rice Business, was Identigene. Identigene was a DNA identification lab, providing paternity tests to consumers and forensics DNA testing for law enforcement. I mean, wow, what an incredible entrepreneurial journey that you have had. I would love to dive in and learn more about that journey. And, you know, as I was reading your background, I realized and recognized that you're really the intersection of your parents — your father was a geneticist and your mother was an entrepreneur. So, tell me your story.

[02:13] Caroline: Yeah. Well, I mean, you're right, it all really started with them. And that's absolutely true. And certainly, they both had a lot to do with that first baby you mentioned, Identigene. And it actually also started at Rice. That's what's kind of cool about this interview. And I'm excited to be talking to you. So, yes, I grew up kind of learning about genetics and medicine and all that in my house from my dad. And my mom started a company when I was in high school. It was a genetic services company doing prenatal diagnosis and other genetic type diagnoses for cancer, bone marrow analysis, and things like that. And so, went to college, and then had a couple of years between college and business school where I worked for a big company. Learned that I didn't like that. I won't say what big company it was —

[03:01] Maya: We won't ask. We won't ask.

[03:01] Caroline: ... because I did the same thing. I did the same thing between years in business school — worked for bigger companies as an intern. And it just wasn't for me. I kind of, sort of started to realize that's probably not going to be my best fit. But it really wasn't until my second year at Rice in business school that I took Ed Williams' class on entrepreneurship. And the whole class was really about, make a business plan, get together with some partners, and fully flesh out your plan. And that was the genesis of Identigene. And so, it was partly tying together kind of what I knew from what my father was doing at Baylor College of Medicine. And they had just sort of discovered this different type of DNA identification methodology, which is now the standard for the forensic CODIS database and used worldwide for DNA genotyping. And so, we were the first private lab to use it. But yeah, so it all stemmed from that. And Ed Williams was really pivotal in making me kind of see that this was sort of what the path I wanted to follow. And so, I gave him a lot of credit. I really had a great relationship with Ed.

[04:09] Maya: Well, it's all about those professors, right?

[04:12] Caroline: Yes. Yes, it was great. It was really great.

[04:14] Maya: My entrepreneurship professor at Rice, Al Danto, I think it's very similar to me for what Ed was to you. And one of the things that Al would say in our entrepreneurship class is, you know, when is the first time that you start thinking about selling your business? And the answer is the day you start it.

[04:36] Caroline: It's a good idea. You don't know that when you start your first one, but I certainly did learn that. And I can't believe you just said Al Danto. So, in small world land, Al and I were in a forum together in the Entrepreneurs' Organization in Houston for many years. So, I love Al. He's the best. And so, we go back.

[04:55] Maya: I mean, who doesn't love Al?

[04:56] Caroline: I know, I know. He's just the most likable guy in the world.

[05:00] Maya: Wow. Well, that's incredible. But yeah, you did exit quite a few companies. So, you went through that process of entrepreneurship as well. Can you tell me, with the different businesses that you founded, that you exited, you know, what have been the best parts and what have been the most challenging parts?

[05:22] Caroline: Gosh, too numerous to mention. But you know, what comes to mind, the best part and the most challenging, certainly, in the first company, Identigene. So, I'm, you know, in my mid-20s, start the company, kind of flying by the seat of my pants, to be totally honest. And, you know, yes, we started with a business plan, and then, you know, everything changes right away. The field itself was growing. The O.J. trial happened. I know it sounds like a zillion years ago, and it was. But that sort of made, you know, DNA testing much more known to the general public. And so, we were really focused on paternity testing, which is a consumer product or service, right? And so, we were trying to, you know, get the word out that this service was available. And more people than you think needed that service. So, we sort of did some mass-advertising approaches with billboards and different things like that, that said, “1-800-DNA-TYPE, who's the father?” And so, it got a lot of attention.

[06:17] Maya: I think I remember those.

[06:20] Caroline: We did get a lot of attention, which was great. It was like free PR on top of paid advertising, which was a nice combination and made the money go further when you're spending it on marketing. But that challenge of everything growing really quickly but, you know, kind of this is the first time you've done any of it, and you know, in those first five years or so, I really was kind of flying solo and trying to sort of figure it out on my own. And this is where kind of the connection to Al Danto comes in, is I found out and joined the Entrepreneurs Organization (EO), which was back then YEO, the Young Entrepreneurs Organization. And that ended up being, really, a huge life-changing, helpful, you know, group to be in. And just having a peer group that you can talk to about, you know, the issues that you're going through, because then now you've got a peer group of people who've experienced different things before that you're going to go through. And they can share their experiences and help you, like, not feel so alone and not have to make every mistake on your own.

And so, that was probably one of the best things, was learning that and figuring out, you know, don't try to fly solo or just use your team. You need, you know, a broader group and an experienced group of people that understand what you're going through.

[07:44] Maya: Which is one of the huge benefits of Rice, you know, that network where... you know, entrepreneurs feel very lonely when you launch something. It's a very lonely journey. That it allows you to lean on others and to know that, you know what? You don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if it's going to work or not. And to have that support mechanism built in is really just a huge benefit that I have found at Rice. And it seems like you have as well. And that's something that carries through that thread of that Rice network.

[08:19] Caroline: Absolutely. And, you know, back when... you mentioned the year, 1992 is when I graduated, which was a long time ago. And Rice has, I mean... boy, what Rice has done since then? I mean, even back then, it was a fantastic school to go through, but what it has developed into, especially as an entrepreneurial powerhouse, is... you know, I'm so proud. You know, I've just, like, beamed with pride as my Rice degree continues to appreciate over time. And it really has become much more of a network of entrepreneurs. In fact, you know, I know quite a few of them in the Austin area where I live. And so, it is nice to be able to interact with those that are in the same sort of field, if you will.

[09:03] Maya: Yes. And so, OrganiCare is in Austin. And I have to say, you know, hook 'em horns, I was a horn before I earned my owl wings. So, OrganiCare is based in Austin. So, tell me the story of how that developed.

[09:18] Caroline: Yeah. So, OrganiCare, the genesis of it, you know, there are three founders. There's me, my partner, David Shockley, who's also in Austin and who is owner of a 30-year-old medical device company, and so had all the regulatory ability to make things and know, you know, the knowhow for all of that. And then we had an Italian founder, Franco Papa, who came with the technology that is the basis of most of our products. And so, this technology was developed out of a university over in Italy. And they're much more adopting of homeopathic products over there. And they're studied, and they're just more widely used.

And so, what we learned with this base substrate, which is an oxygenated olive oil, that is highly antimicrobial, it would make a great first aid ointment. And so, it was being created and made in Italy as a prescription for like wound care, you know, diabetic ulcers, really bad bed sores, things like that. And so, the idea was to, you know, bring these three people together. I have the consumer products experience and would be the operator, the CEO. David would sort of leverage his medical device company and service chairman of the company. And Franco, of course, continued to do research and development for us in Italy, because he has a lot of relationships with the medical establishment over there. And so, we decided we wanted to bring a consumer product version of this technology to the U.S. And so, that's what we did.

[10:50] Maya: Well, that's incredible. I know that olive oil, whenever, you know, your hands are really dry or anything like that, I used to put it on my hands, you know, and on the bottoms of your feet, I mean, it was a little slippery. But I'm sure that your products are a lot better than [crosstalk 00:10:13] olive oil.

[11:05] Caroline: Well, it is. And so, yes, what happens in our manufacturing process when we combine it with the oxygen is the oxygen binds with the fatty acids and the oil, and it makes a natural peroxide and it turns into an ointment during the manufacturing process. So, it becomes more like a gel or an ointment that you would apply topically. In our first products case, which is the first product was Curoxen First Aid Ointment, you apply it to wounds and, you know, they heal very quickly. And no germs can develop because it's so antimicrobial.

So, we ended up doing a lot of testing. And one of the things that differentiates the company across all its products is the sort of scientific testing that we do to validate the claims that we can make. And we can make pretty strong claims, especially for a natural product.

[11:57] Maya: As opposed to like a Neosporin or something like that.

[11:59] Caroline: Yes. I'll take your segue and go to, yeah, Neosporin is a great example. It's got three antibiotics in it. It's got petrochemicals. And 10% of people are allergic to Neosporin because of two antibiotics that are in it that are big allergens. So, you know, we're offering an alternative that is completely natural, not allergenic, and kills bacteria far, far better than the three antibiotics that are in Neosporin. We've done all the independent lab testing, and Curoxen kills, not only regular bacteria, but staph, E. coli, even MRSA, which is highly resistant to... you know, antibiotic-resistant bacteria. They can be pretty troublesome. People get hospitalized for that.

[12:44] Maya: And it's fatal.

[12:45] Caroline: Yes, yes. So, that was our first product, was Curoxen. And we made an oral care version of it to heal mouth sores. And we still make those products. But we really kind of shifted our focus when Franco and his team found out that this substrate works really well on yeast in women. So, when women get yeast infections, this clears it right up. So, we created a formulation in the U.S. for the U.S. market to fight yeast infections, and FemiClear was born. And back in 2019, we launched our first feminine health care product that was for yeast infections. And we've launched several more since then.

[13:28] Maya: So, 2019, so right before COVID, right?

[13:31] Caroline: Yes.

[13:33] Maya: That was probably a great, you know, double-edged sword before COVID, and then COVID hit, so you don't really know... you know, you can only go up, right? Sales can only go up after going through something like COVID. Now, could you tell me, have you guys encountered any sort of supply chain issues, anything like that, with any of your products because of the pandemic?

[13:58] Caroline: So, one of the things that was good luck and good planning is, in 2019, pre-pandemic, you know, our volumes were increasing. And at the time, Italy was still making all of our products for us over there. But we created a plant, got all the equipment, and we were getting our production line up and going in 2019 so that we could actually make all of our own products by 2020. And so, that ended up being a lifesaver. It's not that we don't have some supply issues sometimes on raw materials, but we then were in control of our own destiny, being able to control our own manufacturing.

[14:36] Maya: Well, that's incredible. That was perfect timing, so to speak.

[14:40] Caroline: Yeah, it was. It was. And it is really good. It is a unique characteristic of an early-stage company to be able to make, you know, your own products. Most companies like ours would've gone to a co-manufacturer. But, you know, you're really vulnerable, because you... especially with the supply chain problems, you're going to get deprioritized if you're not the biggest clients they have. And so, thankfully, we don't have to worry about that.

[15:06] Maya: So, made in the USA?

[15:09] Caroline: Made in the USA, made in Austin, Texas, yes.

[15:11] Maya: Made in Austin, Texas, even better. It's a Texan. Made in Texas, right?

[15:16] Caroline: That's right. That's right. That's right.

[15:17] Maya: So, I just want to sort of turn to feminine health issues, you know, because this is the newest product in your line of products. And have you faced any challenges in de-stigmatizing feminine healthcare issues? You know, there is definitely a stigma with that. So, talk to me a bit about that.

[15:35] Caroline: For sure. And especially, when you get into some of the new things that we are addressing with our products. So, yeast infection was one thing. You know, most women get a yeast infection at some point in their lives. Some women, unfortunately, get recurring yeast infections. They're very difficult to treat, you know. And nobody wants to talk about these things, right?

[15:53] Maya: Nope.

[15:53] Caroline: I mean, we deal with the things that nobody wants and nobody wants to talk about. So, it is difficult. We created a second product, an anti-itch product. Nobody wants to talk about vaginal itching.

And then our third product, genital herpes. I can tell you, really, nobody wants to talk about that, because that is probably the most stigmatized condition that we treat. And it's really quite a manageable condition. It's not like it's a life-threatening, terrible disease or anything. But emotionally, it can be quite crippling. And you know, that's been probably the biggest thing that we've learned, is that, you know, for those consumers with herpes... first of all, one in five women has it. So, you're not alone if you have it. It's a very, very common condition. And more women than men get it, about twice as many women as men get it, or know that they get it, because just the symptoms show up more predominantly in women. And a lot of people can have it and not even know that they have it.

So, it's a troubling one because it is stigmatized. And so, we are trying to do everything that we can to, you know, kind of take it out of the closet and make people feel okay. Nobody's going to jump up and down, you know, happy that they get it, but they shouldn't feel ashamed, for sure. And they shouldn't feel embarrassed. It's a common, common condition that can be really easily managed.

But one of the things that, you know, is a feature of it is you get outbreaks. So, little blisters form exactly like a cold sore. In fact, the cold sore is a herpes virus condition as well. It just shows up on your lips instead of your genitals. And so, we're just wanting to talk about it.

So, conversations like this are perfect for helping make it normalized, you know, and make women and men that deal with the condition feel less closeted about it. And hopefully, they can just know this is a normal health condition. Everybody's got something. If you have herpes or if you have a yeast infection, or a latest condition that we're treating is bacterial vaginosis, another condition that's considered an STI. But again, nobody wants to get these things. But when they do, you know, we want them to know that there's health and somewhere to go and a healthier, more effective alternative than what's been out there in the past.

[18:12] Maya: Sure. And you are a female entrepreneur.

[18:14] Caroline: Yes.

[18:16] Maya: And I want to turn to that because the Hoover Institute out of Stanford, I was reading an article where women still earn 17% less than men. So, that's $83 for every $100 that a man earns. Tell me how... I mean, you started in 1993. So, you've seen the transitions and having more women enter the entrepreneurial realm, so to speak. So, what advice could you give female entrepreneurs that are just starting out about, you know, what you have learned, your lessons?

[18:49] Caroline: Yeah. You know, first of all, join the club. Glad to have you. More, you know, power in numbers and all of that is true. The other thing I'll say, you know, kind of referencing what I said before, get a peer group. Find some other entrepreneurs, women or men, to surround yourself with, to share stories, to talk through problems. There are really a lot of different groups. You know, I happen to belong to EO. There are a lot of other groups that are entrepreneurial-focused groups. Yeah, there's a group called FemTech Focus that is, you know, focused on the feminine health area. So, I mean, whatever industry you're in, there may be groups that you can join or just entrepreneurial groups. But it is really important to have peers and people that you can talk to, to help you through it.

And there's also a lot more developing — and I've joined some of them — groups or organizations that help women entrepreneurs, in particular. There's one in Austin called Beam. And I'm one of the mentors in that group. And I just think that these organizations, you know, focus on trying to help women get funding and know how to do their pitches and HR practices and different things like that. These support systems are burgeoning, and really there to be used. So, take advantage of them.

[20:13] Maya: Absolutely. And what have you learned about leading a company with these female-centered products? Did you run into challenges because of it?

[20:20] Caroline: So, we do run into challenges. There are things that have been so surprising. Like, you have your advertising and you try to put an ad on Facebook and they'll disallow it because it's got sensitive content. But, you know, you could put a man's ED product on, you know, and advertise it anywhere you want. So, I mean, it's very interesting.

[20:42] Maya: Lopsided.

[20:44] Caroline: Completely lopsided, yes, and unbalanced, all that stuff. And so, we do kind of wonder at it. There's been a lot of conversation about that in the women's health world. And so, you know, I think, hopefully, it’ll all normalize out as these things are... you know, a light is shined on these minor injustices, so to speak. But it is also interesting, and why the feminine health space is becoming so hot is because there has been so little attention given to women's health issues, particularly, like the ones that we deal with—you know, yeast infections, bacterial vaginosis, genital herpes. These are, again, not life-threatening conditions, but they're very, you know, uncomfortable, inconvenient. They mess up your day. They mess up your life when you've got, you know, an infection or an outbreak or something like that. And doctors in the past, when doctors were more male than female, weren't as concerned about these things. And so, now—

[21:45] Maya: Well, because they didn't know what it felt like. There was no basis.

[21:46] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And I don't think it would be... Yes, that's right. And, I mean, there's amazing statistics out there on how, you know, clinical studies didn't include women until the '70s.

[21:59] Maya: Wow.

[22:00] Caroline: All of these, all the kind of studies that were ever done were really male-focused. And so, now, we're hopefully getting more and more attention on women's health. And so, companies like ours that are trying to help women in that way, it feels good.

[22:13] Maya: Absolutely. You've come a long way. We all have. And there's a long way to go. And it's a journey, right?

[22:21] Caroline: That's right.

[22:22] Maya: And it's more about the journey, not so much the destination, maybe.

[22:24] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And I definitely love and feel the pay-it-forward calling. So, whenever I can help someone or talk to them about their business, first of all, it just energizes me. I love doing it. I could talk about new businesses, different businesses all day long. And I love that aspect of it at my stage in my career, especially.

[22:47] Maya: So, what would be some of your advice for healthcare startups? I mean, we're here in Houston. There's quite a bit of healthcare startups, with the TMC and TMCx. So, what would be some of your advice for those that are about to launch some healthcare?

[23:02] Caroline: Well, being in Houston — and I am a Houstonian, and, again, my father was in the medical center there for many, many years — there is so much breakthrough, great science, and technology that can be found. And I've lucked into, to be frank, the great technology that I've been able to leverage in the businesses that I've run. And so, you know, that is what really excites me, is to find something that's truly different, that truly, it actually matters, either in the medical field or to a consumer. My world is more consumer-oriented. So, different that isn't fundamentally better for a consumer, isn't necessarily great. But if it's different and really makes a step change in the way they live their lives or they handle their healthcare, that's exciting.

And so, you know, for me, whether it was the DNA testing methodology that made it more robust and faster, or now, in my world today, treating and eliminating symptoms much, much faster without being exposed to antibiotics or antifungal drugs is just a hugely disruptive change in the way women can treat these conditions. And so, I would say, if you can find a technology that you think can make a real difference, not just like a tweak of a difference, but a real fundamental difference in the way a consumer handles their healthcare, that's something to really pay attention to.

[24:33] Maya: That competitive advantage and value proposition needs to be tied up very well.

[24:36] Caroline: Yeah, right.

[24:40] Maya: Well, so, let's go back to becoming a serial entrepreneur. What are some lessons that you've learned with the MendelWorks and with UpSpring Baby and all of those? Let's go back and talk about those a little bit. So, the very first one, right. So, we talked about Identigene, and then you moved on to MendelWorks, which was the mouse genotyping technology. Could you tell me about that? Like, just that path, it seems like it was DNA-based, and then we went to mothers. Are you a mother?

[25:12] Caroline: I am a mother. I have an 18-year-old son going off to college in the fall and a daughter who's 16. And yeah, so full teenhood at my house. It's exciting. And close to empty nesting, which is scary and fun for them and all that sort of stuff. But yes.

[25:30] Maya: Was UpSpring Baby … did you develop that while you had little kiddos in the house?

[25:35] Caroline: I did have little kids. I was not a founder. So, I was an investor in that company when it was kind of still in early stages, you know, and got really involved with the founders. And then, after about six weeks of talking to them, they asked me to be CEO. So, I took over as CEO after that round of funding, and ran it for about four years. And I'm happy to say we went from, you know, not profitable to profitable in a couple of years. So, one of the founders took back over when I left and grew it, and they sold it to Reckitt Benckiser a couple of years ago. That was a great path.

[26:09] Maya: And so, how did you juggle? You were the mom of two kids, right? A wife, there was lots of responsibilities. And also, you know, starting these incredible businesses and exiting them and coming up with new ideas. And, you know, that's fascinating to be able to do that, considering that, you know, there are quite a few challenges that women face.

[26:29] Caroline: For sure. And it's a great way you framed it up. And for sure, that was a difficult time because Identigene was in Houston and, you know, I was operating it. And if I had known Al's advice, Al Danto's advice, back then, I would've known I should've been thinking about the exit. But I hadn't been. I was just sort of going and having fun. And so, I ran Identigene for 14 years. But during that 14 years, I got married, had two kids, moved to Austin. I was commuting back and forth from Houston to Austin with two young kids. And it just became untenable. And so, that's when I started thinking about an exit, which I'll say was good luck because I started thinking about it and did it in 2007, right before the, you know, crash of 2008, and the recession that followed. So, I was happy to have a, you know, really good exit and sold it to a strategic company.

And Identigene continues to actually be sold as a consumer product in CVS and Walgreens and all those CV Identigene paternity tests. So, it's nice to see, you know, your baby live on.

I'll tell you, the big lesson learned there was, I had started MendelWorks as sort of, what's the next big thing we're going to do? But I started it as a separate company a year or two before I sold Identigene. And I moved MendelWorks to Austin. And what I realized is, going from running a company for 14 years and throwing yourself into something new without any downtime or transition was, for me, a mistake. And I've heard this from a lot of entrepreneurs, that, especially if you run something for that long, you need a break.

And so, you know, I had started MendelWorks and we were getting some good traction and getting going. But I ended up realizing that was, you know, too quick of a transition. And I couldn't just keep going, I needed a break. And I actually sold MendelWorks to another company that was doing the same sort of work. And I took about eight months off, you know, not knowing how long it might be, to spend time with my kids. And so, I just sort of needed that, you know, break to exhale.

And it was great. And what I learned was, number one, you know, that was the break that I needed. It was wonderful to spend that time with the kids. And I also realized I needed to work.

[28:48] Maya: Right (laughs).

[28:50] Caroline: And so, that's when I started investing. And I was, you know, in a good position after, you know, having sold Identigene, to look into a lot of different companies and see what I might be interested in. And I was looking for, not just an investment, but also, potentially, you know, some sort of role in the company. And that's where UpSpring came into play. And so, got to know the founders really well, great women, who were... they called themselves mompreneurs, you know, and came up with products sort of being moms themselves.

And so, you know, joining them and doing that was, you know, a great way for me to get back into something that I didn't have to found, you know, and also, to get into the consumer products business. And I learned a lot from that experience.

[29:40] Maya: So, beyond healthcare, what consumer products categories do you think are most in need of development and true innovation?

[29:49] Caroline: Gosh, that's a great question. You know, I think it's probably anywhere where we just feel like the same products have been on the market for a really long time. One of the things that I heard a long time ago was that, if the number one seller is a brand and the number two seller is a private label version of that, that is a category in dire need of innovation. And so, you know, the categories that we've been in, that has been the case, so with Neosporin and private label Neosporin and MONISTAT and private label MONISTAT. These are categories where the same thing has been around for a long time. And that's why I think OTC healthcare is, you know, in a great place to be disrupted, because we just sort of had the same products for a long time on the market. So, you know, a number of years ago, food and beverage was, you know, Coke and Pepsi and Lay's. And now, you've got a proliferation of all manner of different snack, foods and drinks. And everything's getting healthier and better for you.

[30:56] Maya: Now, you have Topo Chico as an option (laughs).

[30:58] Caroline: That's right. That's right. And like, gosh, the water... who would've thought the water category, 23 years ago, would've been so big? But it's huge. So, I'm trying to think of what the next thing is. I'm so in my own space with healthcare. But there probably are other healthcare areas that I think certainly could use some disruption that, you know, do things that are on the market now or just not that... don't treat the condition very well or the ingredients in the products are, you know, known to be not that healthy.

[31:30] Maya: Well, and that's also something that, in the last, you know, decade or so, I mean, it was parabens. I remember it so well where now everything is paraben-free because, you know, parabens were literally in everything. And you start looking at what the ingredients are. And, you know, that's definitely something that we've learned. It was really in the past decade, wasn't it?

[31:51] Caroline: Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, now, you see so many products with, you know, icons for what's not included. You know, instead of what's in it, it's what's not in it. It seems to be what's highlighted. I guess, cleaning products, that's another area that we've had the same sort of thing. And people are much more aware of and nervous about chemicals. When people start families, they get really concerned about it because they don’t want the baby crawling around on the floor that might have, you know, some terrible chemicals on them. So, I think that's an area that's in the process of being disrupted as well.

[32:26] Maya: And I think people have been sitting around for two years thinking about those things.

[32:30] Caroline: Yes.

[32:31] Maya: So, hopefully, there will be an explosion in the next year or so of new products, because I think that, you know, what COVID did do is given us a whole lot of time to sit and think about a whole lot of things and—

[32:35] Caroline: That's right.

[32:36] Maya: ... and reassess and prioritize what our values are and how we want to live in the future. And it was really a forced time-out.

[32:53] Caroline: It was. And it is amazing to me just how well things worked even during the pandemic. I mean, I was amazed that, you know, we were a very much in-office kind of company. And everybody forced to be at home, other than our production team and our logistics team, they still had to make andship product. I was surprised at how well that worked. You know, so that legacy carries on.

And to your point, everybody has re-evaluated. How do I want to live? Where do I want to live? You know, recruiting now is completely different than it used to be. Even though I think Austin is a great and very attractive city to recruit to, you can't demand those things anymore. For people that can work remotely, they want to live where they want to live. But it does broaden your pool of candidates.

[33:41] Maya: So, what's on the horizon for you?

[33:44] Caroline: I am really focused on bringing additional products in the vaginal healthcare space to market. And like I said, we are literally just launching our BV (bacterial vaginosis) product, which is the most common condition that women have. And then we have several, you know, ideas for future concepts coming out in the next few years. So, we're just looking forward to, you know, continuing to develop things so that, whenever you think about vaginal health, if you think about it, you know where to go. And there's a natural, effective, healthier solution, you know, that's accessible without a prescription. Because a lot of the conditions, like herpes and BV, those are really only treatable by prescription. And they don't treat the symptoms very well. They may help you not have as many infections, or they may help you not have as many outbreaks, but they don't really treat the discomfort that comes along with those.

[34:40] Maya: Well, with your incredible background, would you ever consider coming and teaching at Rice? Because I think you would be great.

[34:48] Caroline: I love Rice so much. In fact, the last time I was in Houston, I went through the campus. It's just so beautiful. And I would love to do that. And in fact, you know, someday, if I'm not doing this company, like I mentioned, I love the part of kind of my career path that's moving into feeling, you know, the need to give back and be helpful and see what new young entrepreneurs might want to do and how I can be of help. And that sounds right in line with it. So, I would love to do that.

[35:18] Maya: Well, we would love to have you, I'm just telling you. Like, I'll go audit your class and sit in there with you, because it'd be fascinating. Is there anything else that you'd like to add that I haven't asked?

[35:30] Caroline: No. Gosh, I think you've been really great and thorough. And, you know, I am so passionate about women's health and like wanting to... the whole issue of, let's keep talking about it so that these things become normalized. The emotional toll it takes on women and how much shame and hurt they carry over things that, really, are so common and so, you know, not that big a deal. But I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. And hopefully, at least a few people, you know, who may have felt worse or more alone don't after this.

[36:10] Maya: Well, I mean, that's what it's all about, is to normalize and bring to the table that conversation. Those uncomfortable conversations shouldn't be so uncomfortable, you know.

[36:18] Caroline: That's right. That's right.

[36:19] Maya: I mean I've got two daughters. And I want to be able to discuss these things with them in a very open sort of way, so that it's not shameful or degrading or humiliating or any of those things. So, just wanted to thank you for bringing that here today for Owl Have You Know. It's been a pleasure to talk with you.

[36:39] Caroline: Thank you so much, Maya. I really appreciate it.

[36:43] Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts and announcements on our website: business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We’d love to hear what you think. 

The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.