[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our FlightPath Series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.

[00:13] Robert: If someone says, "Should I pursue an MBA?" I would say, absolutely. And any way that it would allow you to become more of an international citizen of the world.

[00:24] Christine: Today on Owl Have You Know: Robert Lesnick, Rice Business Executive MBA Class of 2000, who was part of the school's first Executive MBA cohort and honored as a Jones Scholar. Fast-forward two decades later, he has conducted business in more than 100 international locations and has extensive experience in energy-related businesses, serving as an executive advisor to the highest level of governments and business leaders. He talks about the evolution of global energy, being a part of that inaugural executive cohort, and his perspective now on the growth of Rice Business two decades later.

[01:01] Christine: Joining us today on Owl Have You Know is Robert Lesnick, Rice Business Class of 2000. Thank you, Robert, for joining us today.

[01:07] Robert: My pleasure.

[01:10] Christine: Well, I want to start with an overview of your career. You've been in the energy sector, what, some three decades now? And maybe, talk a little bit about some current observations of the energy industry, and maybe, where we're going.

[01:25] Robert: Sure, be happy to. It has been a long time seeing the industry grow from, you know, institutions that were still using slide rules and copy sets with three different colored papers and carbon copies, you know, to where we are today with super sophisticated exploration and production techniques. It's been really quite remarkable to see, in a real sense of dollars, that the price of oil today a little bit is abnormal. But for year-on-year, the price of oil has really gone down in real terms, just because of the technology that the industry has been able to introduce over time.

Where we stand today, and when I talk about commodity prices, it's important to realize that it's not the total supply and total demand that sets the price. It's really the incremental supply and the incremental demand. So, on the margin, today, we have a lot more demand and we have the ability to supply that surplus that's needed. And so, really, the sky becomes the limit in terms of what the ask and sell price is for the incremental barrel of oil, gasoline, natural gas—all of them are in the same sort of condition right now.

[02:37] Christine: I think one of the things that fascinates me the most with energy is how much it affects every aspect of everyone's life on the planet.

[02:45] Robert: Yeah, it's actually a very good point. Energy is built into everything we do, from the moment we wake up and turn on the light, to the stalk of broccoli that has to be shipped, either by rail or by plane or by truck, to get it to your grocery store, refrigeration. Yeah, it is just a major aspect of everybody's life and commercially throughout the world. It's just built into the price of everything.

[03:12] Christine: What drew you to the industry? And was that sort of your intent?

[03:16] Robert: Actually, I started studying environmental engineering as an undergraduate student. I kind of got into the field because there was a certain necessity to try to develop energy supplies in environmentally responsible ways. But on the flip side of that, my undergraduate degree was in philosophy, and there just wasn't a whole lot of job opportunities for philosophers in the end of the '70s. And one of the things that the industry offered was management development programs where they basically taught you the industry from scratch. And I really needed an opportunity like that to develop enough expertise that I could succeed in some business.

[04:02] Christine: So, in 2000, you went to Rice Business and graduated from the executive program. And this was the first executive cohort. What was that like to be a part of? And what really drew you to Rice Business?

[04:17] Robert: You know, when people ask me that question, I generally say it's delightful. And I choose that word with purpose. It was just really unexpectedly exciting and fulfilling every time the cohort met. The inaugural class was, I think, probably unique to the program because it was made up of about 41 students who were thinking about getting their MBAs sometime in their career for years and years and years and just couldn't find the right place and the right structure to make that happen while they were working full time. And so, the class of 2000 really had a lot of commonality into what their motivation was and what their goals were for going through the MBA program. And, you know, we've heard this through other podcasts, one of the biggest takeaways from the program is what you learn from the students that go through the program with you. And that certainly was our case as well.

[05:17] Christine: Yes, yes. So, I was in the Rice Business Executive Class of 2020. And I'm curious, in your cohort, what was sort of the makeup of industries? Was it primarily energy, people trying to, you know, get to the C-suite? Or what was the ambition there in the industries they were coming from?

[05:36] Robert: It was heavily populated with energy backgrounds, but also, a lot from the medical center. So, we had a lot of doctors who were trying to learn how to manage their business better. We had some from aerospace. But, probably, at least a third of the class was from an energy company of some sort. But again, energy has a lot of different subsets. So, we had commodity traders and we had accountants and we had business developers. So, even if you were from the energy industry, your experiences were pretty diverse.

[06:09] Christine: Yes. And I would say at least one-third of our cohort was, and then we had two doctors, a lawyer, a fire chief, I'm a former journalist, and accountants, entrepreneurs, quite a mix. And I would say, maybe, at least a dozen have made job changes or career changes after the program. Was that the case for you?

[06:33] Robert: I would say that was fairly rare. In our particular case, most of the students were fairly successful in the businesses that they were currently in and had already graduated to some fairly high-level positions. And so, the focus of the ... I think the first cohort again might be different than some of the others. We worked very closely with faculty to try to get them to teach the same cases and the same courses in a way where we weren't learning how to do things, we were learning how to use the things that the program was about. And so, they tried to teach in a slightly different angle, so that we weren't spending a lot of time calculating and manipulating. We were using the results to try to develop business strategies and business efficiencies.

[07:24] Christine: And speaking of the professors and learning, I know you have also gone on to teach at Rice Business and Georgetown Law where you've been a lecturer at the International Law Institute. What has that experience been like? And maybe, how did your Rice Business background prepare you for that?

[07:42] Robert: I like to teach, and I like to speak. And when I do, I try to have three goals in mind. The first is to educate. The second is to entertain. And the third is to motivate. And I don't think people learn if they're bored. So, try to mix all three of those, but then try to end every course or every lecture with a go-to or some homework for the people who are in attendance.

And I think that model was one that I, you know, basically learned from the Rice Program, that the professors were excellent at doing all three of those things. And I often, you know, remember learning something on a Sunday and putting it to use on a Monday inside the corporation. So, just again found that, you know, very useful and just a good model to use when I do this, teach or lecture or speak at a convention or someplace like that.

[08:40] Christine: And I love... you said you like to motivate. Do you find different generations and different audiences are motivated differently?

[08:49] Robert: You know, I could probably get myself in trouble if I start to categorize. But yeah, I think so. I think ... we are now semi-retired, my wife and I. And we joke all the time that we need to a adopt six-year-old so I can learn how to use all the technology that's out there today. And I have children who receive things in a different way.

I think, in general, attention spans seem to be shorter and memories also seem to be shorter. So, people ... and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's just different. So, people live for the moment. And it's not very useful to try to teach, you know, using memories from 20 or 30 years ago or history. Not that it's not important, but it's just harder for younger people to relate to history the way that I do, based on, you know, kind of the conditions that I lived through when I was their age.

[09:50] Christine: Well, as someone who works in media and marketing, I know we have about three seconds to capture someone's attention. So, I think, definitely, that number has gotten smaller and smaller and can apply to a lot of different things.

[10:01] Robert: Yeah, that actually works in business, too, especially if you're trying to conduct business in a foreign location where English isn't the counterparty's native language. You really need to be able to capture their attention very quickly and make your point early on in your conversation because it's just very hard, very fatiguing for people who don't speak English naturally to try to follow the conversation or follow the argument, if it takes a long time to make that argument.

[10:33] Christine: And you traveled a lot with your work, I was told more than 100 countries, conducted business in around 70. Were you always interested in travel? And is there a particular place that maybe sticks out to you?

[10:51] Robert: I didn't travel a lot as a young person. But I think my mother was a gypsy, and it was just part of my DNA. When I first got the opportunity to do work, it was in Trinidad and Tobago, and just found the experience absolutely fascinating and leveraged that job opportunity into a career in international business development. And it's not everybody's cup of tea. But for me, it was quite stimulating and quite fascinating to be able ... and actually felt very privileged to be able to kind of roam the globe and learn how others do business, how other cultures value things. So, it's a rare opportunity. And I was pleased to have been able to do that for the last 20 years of my career.

So, you know, people ask me what's my favorite. It's hard to try to prioritize that list. Every place has a vivid memory or two that kind of shaped who I am today. So, it's tough to answer that question in a short amount of time. Generally, I have to spend, if this is a cocktail hour kind of conversation, saying, "What is it that you want me to talk about? Prettiness of the city, the quality of the food, you know, the availability of red wine?" It's really, really difficult. I do like cities that have harbors, though. I think Cape Town and Sydney and San Francisco are just charming places to be. But, you know, I've also enjoyed going out in safari in Africa. I'd had an opportunity to go on an expedition to Antarctica and actually see how weather was created and actually got caught in a hurricane on board a boat while I was down there. So, it was, you know—

[12:32] Christine: Oh, my.

[12:33] Robert: That memory's going to stay with me for a while.

[12:38] Christine: And obviously, with COVID, business has changed. Do you think you lived in an era that we won't see again where there was so much business travel? I mean, there's obviously some jobs you have to be there, others you don't. But, you know, are companies looking for opportunities to cut costs. And will we see the kind of career you had again?

[12:57] Robert: That's an excellent question. I don't know that I know the answer to that or even could offer a lot of wisdom. When I was doing business development, it was generally myself and a very, very small team. So, I don't know that that could actually be replaced. You have to have some local knowledge. You have to have some face time with your international counterparties in the beginning. So, I think some of that can, you know, once you've established a relationship and some trust, then I think you may be able to cut out some of the travel in some of the meetings. But in terms of creating new business opportunities, I don't see that can really be done over a Zoom call.

[13:35] Christine: Definitely. After working in the private sector for about 30 years, you were selected to be a World Bank petroleum advisor. Can you talk a little bit about that transition, that role, how you were selected, and what it entailed exactly?

[13:50] Robert: Yeah, sure. So, the World Bank has a program where individuals are seconded into each other's organization. So, in my case, I was seconded into the World Bank's oil and gas advisory service group from the oil company. And a person from that organization was seconded into, not ours, but another private sector company. And the idea is to kind of cross-fertilize and provide, you know, different experiences, so that, upon each returns, you can have a different perspective about what is considered important in all the kind of stakeholder issues that come up during investments in the energy sector.

I actually sought out the opportunity because, having worked internationally for about two decades, it was pretty obvious to me that many, many state-owned enterprises, whether it's energy ministry or a state-owned oil company, just had limited capacity. So, there were a lot of very smart and capable individuals. But that layer was pretty thin. It didn't go very deep. And so, the international side of the negotiating table was really disadvantaged, compared to all the horsepower that a major oil company could bring in terms of legal background and operational and commercial experience that the negotiators would have.

So, I saw it as a unique opportunity, you know, to walk on the other side of the table and actually help countries that—especially, countries that were resource poor—and trying to develop their energy sector do a better job and share the benefits of development of energy sources, or even if it was development of major infrastructure that allowed for imports of energy into the country, just to kind of share those benefits with their society in a more efficient way and one that, you know, that again shares rent, if there is economic benefit that results from the project.

[16:10] Christine: And talking about the negotiations, International Petroleum Business Negotiator, I believe, is the actual title. What makes a good negotiator, do you think?

[17:02] Robert: Well, I can tell you what doesn't make a good negotiator. It's a person who tends to positionally bargain. That's actually not negotiation. That's a very primitive form of "I'll take everything that's on the table over to my side, and you try to get it back. And if we both have enough pieces at the end of the meeting, then we'll agree to go ahead." That's not a very enlightened form of business development and business negotiation. What you need to do is work very diligently to discover what the primary goals of the counterparty are. And in an international environment, it's quite different than what you might experience in, you know, your country. And, you know, I might talk about the U.S. for a while, but it isn't just about U.S. If it's Germany or Japan, as long as you're working inside your own country, then a lot of the goals are similar. But if you start to go cross-culturally, then the business goals and the negotiation goals could be quite different.

So, in the case of a developing country, the primary goal might be to create jobs or to improve security of energy supply, to develop social services in the areas in which you're working, to improve educational systems in the area that you're working. Those are issues that are never brought up in a business negotiation inside the United States. So, if you understand their list and you understand the cost and the resource requirements for the list, you can actually have quite a successful negotiation because you're both getting what you want, rather than sharing a very small piece of pie.

[18:16] Christine: Yes, yes. When you moved from for-profit to a nonprofit institution, did you feel that a lot of the framework that you learned in Rice Business is applicable across both?

[18:29] Robert: Oh, boy. You know, a lot of the metrics and the mathematically sensitive or mathematically-based exercises, probably, less so. But I think the courses that dealt with strategy and organizational development certainly did. And again, this is an area where you can actually create a win-win. And it didn't really matter which side of the table that I was sitting on. If I was sitting on, say, the developing country side of the table, then we would seek to strengthen our organization and have the Western counterparty helping that strengthening because it was to their advantage. It's a lot easier to negotiate with a counterparty who doesn't have to learn what you're talking about every time you meet with them. And then, once the deal is done and you start to build and operate whatever the facility is that you've negotiated to do, to have an educated counterparty there makes it much, much easier to comply with local regulations and meet local expectations.

So, doing the work upfront was really important. And it's nice to have a body of knowledge that, again, we've discussed in business school that helped, not only organize organizations, but prepared those staffs to think about change and how rapid change would affect their country's future. And if we're talking about energy projects that would create billions and billions of dollars of revenue over time, that's an incredibly important change that not only affects the oil ministry, but the ministry of finance and the ministry of industry and the whole, maybe, political system inside of a country. And so, we had to do an equal amount of work behind the scenes to determine what the benefits of the project would be to the country, and then how those benefits would be somehow shared with civil society.

[20:36] Christine: So, I've gotten sort of a general impression from young people that, maybe, some are hesitant to go into, maybe, particularly, oil and gas energy overall. What advice would you give a young person who's considering that career and has some hesitations, given the volatility, the ups and downs, and what we're seeing, and really, sort of an uncertain future?

[20:57] Robert: The media and the political systems have kind of created a false sense of, not only what the energy companies do, but how badly fossil fuels are needed to meet growing energy needs of the world. And so, it's possible for recent graduates to think that the role and the work of energy companies is short-lived, or at least oil and gas companies are short-lived. You know, that's just not true. And every major forecast group in the world recognizes that, even with all the environmental work we need to do, 60% of the world's energy supply is still going to be met with fossil fuels in 2050 and beyond. The infrastructure facilities that have been built, pipelines and power plants and refineries, they are in the trillions of dollars, and they're not going to be shut down because someone's going to build a wind farm. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be developing alternative energy. We absolutely must. But it's a misunderstanding to think that what we're doing is replacing the basic institutions that we have around energy. That might happen in your children's children's lifetime. But for all of us who are walking the planet today, there's still a lot of work that needs to be done in our business.

[22:27] Christine: And for young people considering an MBA, any specific advice or observations that you might make to them?

[22:36] Robert: You know, over the last five years, the world's gotten very nationalistic. And the idea around globalization that was embraced for the last 20 years suddenly became not so great an idea. And I think, you know, there was a natural pendulum swing, if you will, that, during this period of transnational businesses and globalization, the world kind of defaulted to buying and supplying materials from the lowest producer and never really thought about supply chain issues or never really thought about, well, what happens if that producer stops producing for whatever reason? Where am I going to source, you know, the material if the one and only supplier that I have ceases to produce, for whatever reason?

And so, that happened during COVID. And so, people said, well, now globalization is bad. Well, it actually isn't. I mean, it's still valid. It's still, the economic fundamentals of sourcing materials and labor internationally still makes an awful lot of sense. But it has to be done in an enlightened way. So, I guess, if someone says, “Should I pursue an MBA?” I would say, absolutely. And any way that it would allow you to become more of an international citizen of the world, then I would certainly try to leverage that, because I really think business success is, on the long term, a function of how you can leverage global markets to your success.

[24:13] Christine: I'm sure picking just one from this next question will be difficult, but is there something that stands out in your mind that, maybe, you're most proud of in your career?

[24:23] Robert: Yeah. Actually, there were two projects that I worked on that won environmental awards. And that's a fairly rare thing to have inside an oil industry. So, the first one was a project that I worked on in Trinidad and Tobago that provided LPG (liquid petroleum gases) to the Caribbean and, also, to the northern coast of Brazil. At the time and still today, Brazil faces a problem with deforestation of their rainforests. And the indigenous populations in the northeast part of Brazil tend to chop down trees and then create charcoal from those trees and then use that for home cooking and heating. You know, it's a very environmentally horrible practice. And we were able to substitute LPGs to those communities. So, that won some recognition.

In Syria, I worked on a project that involved capturing gas that was being flared as a result of oil production. So, when the oil was produced, gas that was entrained in the oil also was produced. And it was just vented to the atmosphere, or it was flared. In either case, it's another environmentally harmful activity. We were able to capture that gas and pipe the gas over to a large power plant in Central Syria that was running on heavy fuel oil. That was, again, a very harmful environmental practice. So, not only were we able to stop the flaring and venting of gas, we were able to substitute a cleaner fuel for a dirtier fuel. And that also won an award.

So, those two projects, to me, were important, and also an example of how the oil industry really can improve the environment, that, you know, yeah, there are issues around the development and use of hydrocarbons because you are releasing carbon dioxide, but there is a good way to do that and a worse way to do that. I shouldn't say ... I guess, you know, there's, technically, an efficient way of doing that. And then there's some really poor efficiency and large-environmental-harm way of doing that. And so, if you're sensitive about how you're developing these projects, you can actually improve the status quo.

[26:38] Christine: One last question I'd like to ask you about, Houston is the Energy Capital of the World, will we remain there? What's sort of your outlook on this city and what will happen with energy?

[25:50] Robert: Well, I think Houston will certainly have a role to play for a long time. There's no doubt in my mind that there's still an abundant amount of activities that need to occur in the field of energy that major oil and gas companies are going to need to fund and build and operate. I do think, though, that you will probably see the market share of those activities spread out, that, if you're in the business of developing renewable power, that doesn't have to happen in Houston. That can happen in Ghana.

I just taught a class at the ILI and we were talking about some of the technology that's going to be needed to reach a lower carbon target. And that includes the making of batteries and doing some other prototypical things that, currently, it's only been done in a laboratory. And there's no reason why those things couldn't be developed in some sort of an industrial park in coastal Africa. And I think that would be a good thing if we can kind of share all the different work that needs to be done throughout the globe. And again, you know, kind of my position at this point that I think you can leverage other cultures, other habits of thinking, that, in the U.S. we tend to be very linear thinkers. So, it's facts, facts, facts, facts, assumption, probability, conclusion ... analysis, conclusion, recommendation. And there are other ways of going about problem-solving that doesn't actually have to follow that same sort of path. And you get different results, and a lot of times, better results, by thinking about problems using different methodologies.

[28:34] Christine: Definitely, definitely. Well, is there anything else you'd like to add today that I haven't asked you about?

[28:39] Robert: Well, the only thing I'd say is, if people really are interested in developing a career in international operations or business development, I can't stress enough that preparation is important. I have negotiated against other firms who I don't think were quite as prepared. And my analogy is that it's kind of like a football team that won the last game. And so, the coach says, "Well, we don't need to develop a strategy for our next opponent. We don't need to look at their films and see what they're doing. We'll just do the same thing that we've done the last game. And we'll win the next game." Well, you know, that's actually not a guarantee at all.

And so, a lot of teams don't really study enough, don't understand the history of the country that they're going in and some of the cultural nuances. And the more preparation you can do, the more likely you are to be able to develop a line of communication that's more effective than trying to just kind of push what you believe is the right process or the right solution onto somebody else who, you know, either doesn't feel that way or isn't comfortable just accepting, you know, that sort of solution. So, I would just say that the homework never stops. Keep on learning and keep on using what you learned to develop your own success.

[30:04] Christine: That is great advice. Robert Lesnick, Rice Business Class of 2000, we want to thank you so much for joining us, sharing your insights, and just talking about your just very distinguished career. We want to thank you for joining us.

[30:17] Robert: Again, it's been my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[30:21] Outro: This has been Owl Have You Know. Thanks for listening. You can find links and more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe to this podcast wherever you find your favorite podcast, and leave us a comment while you're at it and let us know what you think.

Owl Have You Know is a production of Rice Business and is sponsored by the Rice Business Alumni Board. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, David Droogleever, and Christine Dobbyn.

[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our FlightPath Series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice Connections that got them where they are.

[00:14] Ruy: So, it was a huge advantage to be able to grow together. Growing as an assistant chief, I had only been an assistant chief for less than a year when I joined the program. And then growing as an EMBA, you got an opportunity to see the theories being applied in practical use. But then, you had that amazing cohort that you could bounce ideas off of. So, was it tough? Sure. There's always sacrifices. And unfortunately, most of the time, it's your family.

[00:40] Christine: A life of public service before coming to Rice Business' Executive MBA program, Houston Assistant Fire Chief, Ruy Lozano, is moving on to a new leadership role. We'll find out where, as he talks about how the program shaped his skillset, balancing work and studies and his biggest challenge in his next role.

Today on Owl Have You Know, we are joined by Ruy Lozano, Rice Business EMBA class of 2020. Ruy, thank you so much for joining us.

[01:09] Ruy: Thanks a lot for having me, Christine.

[01:11] Christine: Well, I want to give everyone an introduction. You completed the Rice Business Executive Program in 2020, you were Assistant Fire Chief for the Houston Fire Department, and are embarking on a new position as Fire Chief at the New Braunfels Fire Department. Can you just tell us a little bit about this new role? I know it's going to be a big change and a move from Houston as well.

[01:35] Ruy: Well, first, I think we've got to say we graduated in the class of 2020. So, we were cohorts together, which was an incredible experience. We had an amazing cohort. And part of this change is attributed to going through the class at Rice at Jones School and the amazing cohort that we had the opportunity to learn from. That's one of the greatest experiences of my life, is attending Rice, but not just learning from the instructors but learning from the conversations where professionals were debating, dialoguing, and just having an exchange of ideas. And as you know, we had an incredibly diverse group, you and I being the outliers, the only two communication professionals. But the diversity of experience and just people was incredible. And I just feel so blessed to have gone through it.

[02:25] Christine: I totally agree. I jumped right in introducing everyone to you, but you and I, we actually knew each other before starting at Rice Business. Do you want to tell the story of how we know each other?

[02:37] Ruy: You're a nationally recognized reporter. And everybody, I think, recognizes you. But you and I spent time on a bridge as there were rescuers bringing victims from a flood. And we've met in other experiences, my experience in the Houston Fire Department in spite of it being atypical. Twenty-six years ago, I did start as a firefighter, but when I made the rank of captain—I also had a degree in PR and communications. And that catapulted me to be the media spokesperson. So, you and I had the opportunity to meet on several occasions, sometimes good, unfortunately, sometimes not so good. But it gave me somebody to lean on when we were at Rice that we weren't the only two PR professionals or communication professionals in the group.

[03:21] Christine: Definitely. And I remember being out there in many situations and circumstances—like you said, not always pleasant. But you were the spokesperson for the fire department. And I was interviewing you as a reporter for Channel 13. So, it was definitely interesting when we both walked in to that event and realized we both were going to be in the same cohort at Rice Business.

[03:41] Ruy: That was refreshing. Like I said, it was great to have a friend and colleague that you can turn to when you're first making those introductions. But to be honest with you, everyone was so warm in our class. I really felt very welcomed. Obviously, being in Houston, there was a lot of engineers from oil and gas. We had some physicians, some surgeons, professionals from a diversity of group. But everybody here, I think, accepted us as people that could add value. I think we added a new dimension to the discussions, and we stole a lot of information from them. And it really helped everyone have that professional exchange of ideas. And I think we're all better for it.

[04:18] Christine: I completely agree, just such a diverse amazing group that I think I use things every day that we learned from one another.

[04:24] Ruy: Yes, it's always amazing to me how you'll be working in your own environment and topics that you discussed in class pop into your head or the notion of something brings back some information that you can now apply. And our cohort had also people from all over the world. So, it also gave you a different perspective on how you look at things, just how important our government is and how it impacts the global economy and situation. We had people in our military that really added some amazing leadership learning opportunities. And then you and I, whenever there was a PR crisis class, that's where everybody looked at you and I and say, "How do we handle this one?"

And I think there was a lot of value there. And the fact that you were allowed to be vulnerable. You were allowed to make a mistake. You were allowed to make a fool of yourself a couple of times. And no one was going to judge you for it because we were all there to learn. And I truly attribute my pivot that I'm taking—or I guess it's not truly a pivot—but my progressing into the position of fire chief to Rice and the amazing cohort that we had.

[05:25] Christine: Definitely. And I think, sometimes, maybe we forget public service, government entities, that business element to it. Can you talk a little bit about how you implemented your learnings at Rice Business into your role with the Houston Fire Department and that value?

[05:44] Ruy: Well, Chief Peña, he's the current fire chief for Houston. When he selected me to be the assistant fire chief, the area that he wanted me to really look after was the capital budget, the procurement side, and purchasing. And that's part of the reason why I said, "You know what? If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this right." And that's when I applied for Rice and I got accepted. And it really gave me an opportunity to understand the language that was being spoken. And that's one dimension.

But I think something that is a little bit different from Rice from a lot of different institutions is Rice is very innovative. They don't want you to conform to the box that everybody wants to put you in. Myself, I had an opportunity to look at the current landscape. Budgets are always tight. I don't think there's ever been a government that says, "Oh, we have plenty of money. Buy whatever you want." Traditionally, you have to triage. You have to look at the budget, see what's most important, and make decisions.

But where I think Rice really helped me was it allowed me to look at things creatively globally. And one of my current successes is we implemented some new lease opportunities for vehicles. The American fire service is a mechanized industry. We can't do our job if we can't get where we're going. And we have a huge fleet of fire trucks, ladder trucks, EMS units, standard vehicles for inspectors, and arson investigators. And they come at a cost. And Rice really gave me the ability to make negotiations, think differently, try to use operating budget instead of capital budget, and apply lease strategies, and be creative.

And most recently, about a year ago, we were able to work with an incredible organization. And we purchased well over 105 vehicles, one of the largest acquisitions and replacement of vehicles in the history of the fire department. And the strategy was very different. We weren't going to just purchase and hang on to them forever and then depreciate. We were going to lease them, and then we were going to arbitrage our economies of size and government incentives and get rid of them in a year and replace them. And the finance department wasn't sure how they were going to take this. And that's where I really appreciate being able to communicate it thoughtfully, use the language of business, but also be able to use the data and be data-driven, put it out in a spreadsheet in a way that made sense. I actually had the opportunity to present this particular strategy to the mayor, because a lot of people were not comfortable with this new strategy. It wasn't anything we've ever taken on.

And we're now at a year later. We're completing the first cycle of replacement. And we're actually going to show a profit. The secondary market really exploded on us for vehicles. And we were forecasting a revenue stream of close to $1 million and with, probably, a net profit somewhere around $500,000. And the goal was really just to hopefully just not outperform the capital but outperform any expectations. Now, I can't completely take credit for that because a lot of that was the market did what the market does. But being able to leverage the situation and communicate it in a language that is spoken by the finance department and procurement department, I think Rice brought a lot of value to me to be able to present, to be able to use data, and to do it in a way that the mayor took one look at it, and literally in a 30-minute meeting, he said, "We're doing it. And we're doing all of it."

I have to thank Chief Peña for having confidence for me to tackle this project, the mayor for looking at the data and having confidence to say, "You know what? We're going to do this." And he knew that I had gone through the program, and he put a lot of value in the fact that I had gotten the education at Rice. And they took a risk. And true reward only comes from true risk. And it's paying off. It's paying off to the citizens of Houston. It's paying off to the men and women of the Houston Fire Department. And hopefully, this will continue.

But I think it's just one example of how you might come from one area and you get an MBA and you're able to apply the two. I speak the language of business. I already had a communication background. I was able to marry them to be able to communicate thoughtfully over an innovative program that had shown success.

[09:55] Christine: And I think taxpayers can find appreciation in that.

[09:58] Ruy: Absolutely, because at the end of the day, we have a fiduciary responsibility to the citizens. And that's one element that the fire chief always told me. He said, "You got to make sure that whatever you're doing, you're doing for the right reasons." And if you can apply data and financial strategies and then communicate it, I think you're going to be successful. And Rice really added a lot of value to that.

[10:19] Christine: So, I know you've been with the Houston Fire Department for more than two decades and seen your share of crisis—Harvey, we could go on and on. Is there one particular, maybe, crisis that you've learned the most from in how to handle? And what it's really taught you?

[10:35] Ruy: Well, I can think of two just incredible crisis. Honestly, May 31st was just a devastating day for the Houston Fire Department. We lost four firefighters at the Southwest Inn fire. And that one really showed me that it's important to get in front of situations, be transparent with the citizens, know how to communicate, and at the end of the day, despite everything else, people matter most, whether it's the firefighters that were involved, the families that were impacted, the citizens that truly carried us through a very tough time.

The second one was Harvey. I had been assistant chief for just a few months. And the roads had already flooded. We had firefighters at the stations that I couldn't get supplies to. Forget supply chains, we were looking at actual delivery roads that we have supplies but we can't get it there. But you know what? The men and women in the fire department showed that, in crisis, people pulled together. They figured it out. When the roads finally did subside, we're able to get resources to them. We were able to execute and provide the level of service that the citizens deserve.

And lastly, COVID. COVID is just a monster. Nobody knew what to expect. Supplies were down. When you're a large organization like the Houston Fire Department, you have 4,000 firefighters you have to protect. And during COVID, it was trying to find N95 masks, trying to find gowns, trying to find gloves. To supply an organization of this size was tough. And we were coming towards the end of our program. And it was very helpful to have that business acumen because I was making negotiations with people in Monterrey, Mexico. I was talking to people in Saudi Arabia, trying to locate the appropriate resources, and then trying to figure out the proper way to get them to the states, because when you're trying to make multimillion-dollar purchases, sometimes you encounter a lot of political just challenges in delivery. Supply chains were so disrupted during that time. And I really have to be thankful that Rice provided me some opportunities to discuss and talk about supply chains and disruptions. And we had such a diverse group in our class. And to understand the different cultural and political situations that we're going on to be able to handle these supply chain issues.

But we're very fortunate, our firefighters never had to do without. Now, did we have to ration? Absolutely. It was one of those times that everybody had to tighten their belt, be creative. But at the end of the day, I think we provided an amazing service. And I don't take any credit. These were the men and women at the street level. This was retail service, going door to door, making sure the citizens were safe, making sure we were protected, making sure that they were protected. It was a tough time. And I am so proud of the men and women and how they executed, and the citizens, understanding that there's going to be challenges.

And it's unfortunate we did lose three firefighters to COVID-19. But I think it could have been far worse, had we not all come together as a community. And I'm just thankful that there was so much support. There was times that supplies on the shelf—the shelves just looked empty. And you're sitting there going, "What am I going to do?" And all of a sudden, a delivery truck pulls up. And you're like, "Thank God that these items showed up." It was just in time.

But it also gave us perspective. We have to now be thinking of the world a little bit different. Things aren't always going to be at your fingertips. You're not going to be able to just afford it on Amazon and have it show-up the next day. So, you gotta really be thinking about what your inventory holdings are going to look like. You need to be thinking of forecasting disruptions, maybe not having sole source providers for certain items but having multiple providers so that you are a little bit more nimble than you were before COVID-19 and all of these supply chain disruptions.

[14:30] Christine: After serving as assistant chief for one of the country's largest departments and moving into a role as the head chief in a smaller but growing department, how is that different? How do you approach it differently?

[14:46] Ruy: I think the first thing is, when you first show up, you can't show up trying to make changes. You show up trying to learn and get a feel for the landscape. New Braunfels, the New York Times just said that they were the fifth fastest growing city in the country. So, they're having a huge population boom, huge housing boom. And from a public safety perspective, we looked at the risk concept that comes along with it. Whenever you get population density, there's going to increase call for service. You have a huge housing boom. Well, that's going to be a huge call for permitting, fire permits. I think part of the reason that I was so attracted to New Braunfels, despite its beauty as a national treasure, was the opportunity to be involved at the ground floor and continue to grow an already great organization to match the risk that is inherent to this type of population growth.

And for me, when I first saw it come up on my LinkedIn to apply for New Braunfels, I did my homework. I really loved the area. I know many of us, whether in college or when we were younger, used to go tubing down the rivers and enjoy that whole New Braunfels Canyon Lake in San Marcus area. So, that was already very attractive. And then to see that growth, I said, this is an opportunity to apply all those different strategies that we learned. And I just hope to be able to add value there. We already have an incredible leadership team. When I met with the city manager, they saw the growth. They realized that there's inherent risk. And they want to be deliberate, but they want to be smart. They want to be innovative. Let's match the risk with the appropriate resource. And let's do it in a way that is responsible and thoughtful. So, you're going to have to have, obviously, institutional knowledge of public safety. But you've got to have a business acumen when you're trying to run an organization, because at the end of the day it's not your dollars. It's the taxpayers'. And you have that fiduciary responsibility to do what's right.

[16:44] Christine: What originally drew you to public service, public safety, the fire department?

[16:49] Ruy: I was at University of Houston. I was in the army reserve. And I was in the Corps, starting to be an officer. I really thought that my calling was to be an officer in the military. And somewhere along the way, one of the sides of—I was a chemical operations specialist, but I was also a medic. And one of the things that really attracted me was that medical side, being able to serve from a medical perspective. Well, I was on my junior year, I think, and the fire department was hiring. And it said, we'll send you to paramedic school. So, you're going to go to fire school, then paramedic school. They're going to pay for it. And being able to show up to someone's house when they're having the worst day of their life and being able to have the knowledge to make it better, that was very attractive, too, for me.

And I joined. I was a firefighter paramedic for the first 12 years of my career. And it was probably one of the most satisfying careers that anyone could have. Any time that you're out there and you're just helping people at a grassroots level, it's fulfilling. You go home knowing that you did good. The fire department schedule is a very unique schedule.

And the other part that was really attractive is that, when you go home, you can separate yourself. You can decompress. You don't take home the emails and everything else. And that was really attractive to me. And I love the paramilitary organization, being in the army. And after 12 years, I just started promoting fairly quickly. And that's when I realized that there comes a point where being the guy boots on the ground, that's a young man's game. And at 45, I don't know if I could still be jumping off a fire truck running into burning buildings or running behind an EMS unit. So, it was time for me to say I want to continue to contribute, but I want to contribute at a higher level. I want to be able to provide the resources for the men and women that I consider my family.

And that's what actually led me, one, when I became the media spokesperson to tell their story. But when I went to Rice, it was to really give them the tools to be successful and be innovative. And so, now, going to a whole new organization as the top person, I feel fortunate that I've had some great leaders that I can learn from. I hope I take a little bit of everything that they taught me. I take with me the experience of being at Rice with an amazing cohort, my PR background from the University of Houston, I started at the Valenti College of Communications. And also, 25 years of being in a great organization. And I think everything is going to be okay. The first year, I think it's going to be a time to learn. Pay attention. And you know what's funny when we did our personal development plan? One of the things they told me is that, as a communicator, I have a bad habit of talking more than listening. And one of the things I'm going to do here is do a lot more listening than I am talking.

[19:44] Christine: What was it like balancing the EMBA program while maintaining your day job? I think I remember one day we were in class, and I don't know if you left class totally, but I know you had to leave. I think it was a three or four alarm fire. But I know you were juggling that. How did you handle that?

[20:02] Ruy: Was it tough? Absolutely. But there's so much cross-pollination. There would times that I'm working. And things that we were talking about in class were coming into my workplace. So, it was a huge advantage to be able to grow together. Growing as an assistant chief, I had only been assistant chief for less than a year when I joined the program. And then growing as an EMBA, you got an opportunity to see the theories being applied in practical use. But then, you had that amazing cohort that you could bounce ideas off of. So, was it tough? Sure. There's always sacrifices. And unfortunately, most of the time, it's your family. And I got to owe a lot to my wife and my family for not being around and being with a nose in the book thing.

But I think doing it together is huge because it's not just theory. It's practical application, modern-day instructors that are giving you what happens today. I remember in our accounting class, somebody asked a question. I don't really quite recall the question, but instead of the professor just looking for the textbook answer, he turned to one of the cohorts. And he said, "Well, wait a minute." And I forgot who it was. "Don't you work in that environment?" He goes, "Yeah." And then the student in our class started explaining how they did it in the real world. And I remember just taking so many notes. And you couldn't write fast enough. There's so much information. Sometimes, you wish you could take the same classes three or four times with hope you absorb enough. There was so much opportunity to bounce ideas in our class that I think it was truly built for professionals.

[21:37] Christine: You've said before that you're always present in the moment. Is that a skill that you think you just had innately or you took time to develop? How did that come about?

[21:50] Ruy: I think being present in the moment is about being engaged. Whether I was treating a diabetic patient 25 years ago or in the boardrooms here trying to decide what our next strategy is going to be, I've always been fairly engaged. But I will say this. As much as Rice taught me so much about business, they really taught me that people matter most. And that was a skill set that I didn't have. I used to put work before everything else. And I started learning more and more when I would hear some of the stories. I don't know. I can't remember if it was just the environment we were in. Maybe because we're going through COVID together and everything else. But you started really learning that they're not just human capital, they're real people. Everyone you work with, no matter above you, below you, lateral, there's real people there. And they have real problems. They have real successes. And you decide one day to be more authentic with them and be genuine and listen to them and realize that they're going through their own life just like you're going through yours. And I still remember in our graduation one of the speakers said that—that people matter most. And that just resonated with me because that's what Rice taught me.

[23:09] Christine: Excellent advice. I know you've been in many, many high-pressure situations. I can't think of many professions that would have a higher pressure situation than the business that you've been in. How have you learned to manage that, cope with that, apply it as a positive experience and learn from it, rather than what, in a lot of cases, could become very negative, given the situations you've seen?

[23:35] Ruy: Well, when I was still operational, when I was on the streets, I always felt that, if you were trained up to your best and you were really keeping yourself as a good medic or a firefighter, you're doing your best no matter what, at the end of the day, if you did your best, that's all you can really do. Now, when I got to administration, the pressure was a little bit different because when you're out on the streets it's all about you, what can I do? When you get up to the boardroom, you have to learn how to work as a team.

And second, you also had to—for me, I used to take things to heart. I hated to lose because I felt like if I didn't always get everything I was supposed to get, then I'm letting these firefighters down, I'm letting the community down. But I think there comes a point where you have to realize that, you know what? You can only do what you can do. As long as you did your best, you did it for the right reasons, you took the politics out of it, and you did what was right because it was what was right, and win, lose or draw, you go home and you're okay with it. You want to make sure that you learn to separate and process your failures just as much as you enjoy your successes. When things don't go right, don't just put it in a drawer. Take a breath. Step back. Give yourself some time. And then review it. Why didn't it go right? What could I have done better? Be systematic about it.

Too many times, when a project goes down or doesn't happen, we just close up the binder, throw it on the shelf, and we move on to the next one. But the lessons learned from that one might help five more projects down the road. So, always taking a moment. I always say give yourself enough time to feel sorry for yourself. And you get all of five seconds, and then sit back. And I remember it because Chief Peña did that to me once. I beat myself up over something, and he pulled me aside because he could tell I was pretty upset. He goes, "Look, I'm going to let you feel sorry for yourself." And he looked at his clock and he goes, "All right, time's up. Now, dust yourself off and get back out there because I need you. I need you to do what you do." And so, I think you have to give yourself a little time. You have to process. But always review your failures. You'll learn far more from your failures than you ever will from your successes.

[25:50] Christine: Five minutes might be a little short. I recently heard it was a professional football player who gave himself 24 hours after a big loss. And then it was forget it, back to it. But I guess, in your line of work, you've got to move on quickly.

[26:03] Ruy: You have to adapt to the environment. And I think this was post-Harvey and the environment with everything was moving so fast and half our fleet was under water, half our stations were not functioning, and you just felt helpless. Okay, dust yourself off and keep going because this environment is not going to wait for you to decide when you feel better about it. Like I said, I have some incredible mentors. I have to hand it to Chief Peña. He's been an amazing mentor towards me. He's the one that pushed me to go to Rice, gave me all the time I needed to study. That's another thing I would always recommend to anyone. If you're coming up in any organization, find a mentor, but be a mentor. If someone's bringing you up, make sure you bring somebody up with you.

[26:45] Christine: When you started at Rice Business, did you know, maybe, what direction you might want to go in post-graduation? Did you see yourself as a chief at a different department in Texas or across the country? Was that on your radar? Or did this opportunity just come up and that's when you started thinking about it?

[27:03] Ruy: No, no, I wasn't really sure what I was going to do. I was really looking to possibly take a pivot, go into the private sector, maybe do consulting. I really wasn't sure. I've felt in a weird place, here I am, a firefighter by trade, with a PR undergrad and a master's from Rice. That's a very unique skillset. Many times, when you go into these high executive levels, they're usually people with institutional experience. And I had a repertoire of being a paramedic fighting fire, and then speaking on camera. And now, you throw in this business degree. So, I wasn't really sure where I fit in the mix. I felt like a square peg in a bunch of round-holed world. But eventually, I think, sometimes, what you do is you give yourself options. And what I learned is a lot of people, when they're looking for executives, they're not looking for a skillset. They're looking for the character of the person. And I think this was an opportunity. I noticed that a lot of the candidates that I was competing against in New Braunfels, a lot of them had a lot more operational experience and they were amazing firefighters and chiefs from other organizations with 40 years. But most of it was operational. And here I was. I was probably one of the youngest ones. I only had 25 years, which is fairly young for a fire chief. And a lot of it was in administration and with a huge business background.

And I really thought, man, I'm probably the last guy they're going to pick. It turns out I was their top choice. But I think it's because they realize, in organizations a lot of times, you have a lot of people that know the operational level. But who can look at things from a global perspective, look at the business side of it, be strategic, and learn how to manage people? And I think maybe—I won't say maybe. I know for a fact that they looked at my MBA. They looked at some of the work that I have already done. And they felt that I was the right person for that organization for that time. Huge growth. There's going to be a huge expectation to manage the growth appropriately, look at the budget. Right now, cost escalations are through the roof. You see inflation going. That impacts everyone. But at the end of the day, we still have to provide a certain level of service. In most organizations like fire departments, you have two big responsibilities. You're here to provide the highest degree of customer service to the citizens while providing for the safety of firefighters. But at the end of the day, both of those, they cost money. And you need someone with a business acumen to be able to manage that appropriately to provide that.

[29:27] Christine: Well, it seems like a really good fit, given, like you said, where they are at this point in time and the growth projections and what they might be, looking for what they might need.

[29:37] Ruy: Yeah. They're already talking. We're already having conversations, even though I'm doing a professional handoff. That's another thing. They were amazing. They gave me over a month to find my successor here and give a professional handoff, which I would make sure anyone in any organization does. You should always try to leave the organization in a better place, but they’re already sending me the financials. They want me to start reviewing the budgets. The fiscal year for a lot of organizations are June, July in the public sector. And so, they're sending me the financials to start reviewing, seeing where the future and see where there's opportunities to expand, to be creative and innovative. And that's where I have to say Rice has really given me that opportunity to be able to assist in that format.

[30:17] Christine: What advice would you give someone who is, maybe, considering Rice Business? And maybe, coming from a more, perhaps calling it a non-traditional background, what would you say to them?

[30:29] Ruy: What I would say about Rice is that there's so many different areas. The Jones School is going to really prepare you. It's going to give you the language. It's going to give you the perspective. And it's going to introduce you to so many amazing people. But being at Rice, even while I was in business school, I was in the data science center. And we did a couple of studies that got a lot of national attention. You met people from the public policy area.

And to me, Rice gives you a very unique perspective. Business is very structured. But Rice itself is very creative. And they've managed to bring the two together. So, I would recommend Rice over any other institution because they teach you that structure of business while being innovative and keeping a growth mindset. They don't want you to just follow the pack. They want you to lead. And they want you to lead in the direction that maybe most would be apprehensive. But they'll teach you. Don't be scared. Be bold, but do your homework.

[31:26] Christine: And it sounds like you took advantage of a lot of the opportunities, talking about the data center, and there's just so many opportunities there on campus to take a look at.

[31:34] Ruy: Yeah, the data science center, I think I've done three studies personally. One got national recognition, we've applied. We're trying to be more outcome-driven than just meeting some arbitrary numbers. More and more, data is the way to go. And especially, when you're trying to go in a new direction, you can't just be anecdotal or go with your gut. If you've got to sell an idea, you better bring some numbers to the table. And the data science center really has an ability to bring data and financials to any project. And at the end of the day, no matter how innovative, the first question anyone's ever going to ask you, how are you going to pay for it? And that's where I think Jones School really prepares us on—how to present data, how to find your data, but at the end of the day, how do you use it to your advantage to create new innovative ways to do things? Don't always follow the pack. If you do your homework on Rice, there's been a lot of innovative thinkers out of there. We've had astronauts come out of Rice. We've had mayors come out of Rice. People that just chose to lead because they felt that it was important to lead in a new direction. And that's what I will attribute it. If you want to be a leader and be an innovative thinker, you need to go at Rice.

[32:45] Christine: Well, we want to thank you so much for joining us. Do you have anything else you'd like to add that I haven't asked you about?

[32:50] Ruy: I hope my EMBA Class 2020 is listening. And I hope they know just how much they mean to me.

[32:56] Christine: I agree. Thank you so much, Ruy Lozano, Rice Business EMBA Class of 2020. We wish you the best of luck in your new position. And we thank you for taking time with us today.

[33:05] Ruy: Thanks, Christine.

[33:08] Christine: This has been Owl Have You Know. Thanks for listening. You can find links and more information about our guest, host, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please, subscribe to this podcast wherever you find your favorite podcast. And leave us a comment while you're at it, and let us know what you think. Owl Have You Know is a production of Rice Business and is sponsored by the Rice Business Alumni Board. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Christine Dobbyn, and David Droogleever.