[00:00]Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.

[00:14]Scott:I am joined by Amanda Stewart, Full-Time MBA, graduating in 2008. Amanda, welcome to the show.

[00:22]Amanda: Thank you so much, Scott. I'm excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:26]Scott: Absolutely. It really is a privilege. I just want to start from, like, an education standpoint. You, you've got a bachelor's degree at UT with a concentration in marketing. Just curious, like, why marketing? Like, what kind of drew you to that major and at that point in your life?

[00:41]Amanda: Thanks, Scott. That was quite a while ago. I graduated from UT in 2002. I grew up in Houston. Most of my family is here in Houston. Went to Austin and love the UT experience. But I will tell you, you're going to hear a theme as we talk about my undergrad and why I went to Rice later and even, you know, my career post Rice. Is this kind of idea of where can I grow? What am I learning? How do I mix it up a little bit, and what do I want to do differently?

So, I did choose, you know, marketing as my undergrad focus. After I left UT, I was at a PR company. So, I was doing publicity for books and authors, calling media outlets. Are you interested in having, you know, this person on as your cast? Here's a great topic for your show or an article that might feature this book that has commentary on, you know, this current event. So, marketing was really where I thought I was headed, and that ended up not being the case later on.

[01:50]Scott: What sort of caused the pivot? Tell us just a bit about what you're working on now and sort of what was that shift from that marketing background to what you're working on today.

[02:00]Amanda: So, like many young professionals in their 20s, my first job out of school at the PR company that I mentioned was fulfilling and rewarding, and I really learned so much in that organization. It was a very small company, maybe like 20 people. When you have 20 people in a small organization, you end up wearing so many different hats.

My main role was doing publicity and contacting the media, but there were instances where I was jumping into sales conversations to help, you know, the one or two sales guys, and one of them was out of the office. Focus on marketing for the organization. I clearly remember having to do some QuickBooks because we had one of our accounting representatives out of the office and not knowing at all what I was doing, but I think that's pretty typical for a small company.

And I think what I realized was I wanted to try something different. I also did not feel like in that small organization, I was already kind of getting the opportunity to play different roles in that organization, and I wanted to see what else was out there. So, I started looking at business schools. I kind of had this idea in mind. Native Houstonian, maybe I didn't want to be back in Houston. Maybe I wanted to try different opportunities, different city, different schools. But I got into Rice.

And as soon as you visit the campus, at least in my opinion, it's impossible not to fall in love with the Rice campus, the Rice community, the business school. And that was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in my career, is to come back to Houston to do the full-time program at Rice. It was exactly what I needed at that point in my career, where I wasn't really very specific about what I needed. I just knew it was something different, something original and unique. And I needed a little bit of a refresh at that point.

[03:58]Scott: Was it just sort of like your hometown understanding of Rice? Was there something that sort of drew you initially? Were there other schools in consideration at the time or…?

[04:07]Amanda: Yeah, there were definitely other schools in consideration. All my eggs weren't in the Rice basket, but I did have a fellow alumni who was currently attending Rice who suggested, why don't you just come on campus and take a look? And it was really, I think sometimes personal references are the best selling point. So, it was that personal connection of having somebody walk me around campus, show me kind of the building, the admissions office, introduce me to enough people that it was clear to me even in those early visits that Rice was going to offer a very different experience than I'd had in undergrad. UT is an amazing campus, amazing program, but it is very big. You are a little fish in a big sea.

And so, I was really, one of the things that appealed to me about Rice on that kind of, like, personal visage was just the sense of community and the smaller size of the classes, the smaller size of the building, the kind of feeling you got from the staff and other students. That was really kind of the turning point for me. Obviously, there was a hometown connection, but I would actually say that was in my pros and cons column at the age of 26, that was not one of the things that was appealing to me, to come back home. Happy I did it, you know. Twenty years later, I'm like, that was the best decision to be back and close to my family, and it means so much to me now. And this is where we'll call home, you know, forever. But at the moment, mid-twenties, making that decision, that wasn't what appealed to me. It was really the sense of community on campus and just the beautiful kind of experience of being there.

[06:04]Scott: I love that. I want to just sort of step to the next part of your career. What sort of led you to where you work today, Constellation, and some of the things that you're working on and doing there? So, what drew you to the organization, and what's kept you there now for so many years?

[06:22]Amanda: So, I work at Constellation. Constellation was my first role after finishing my MBA at Rice. I am currently the VP of our retail operations team at Constellation, and I have been with the organization over 14 years now. I hit 14 years this summer, so I'm headed into year 15. And my journey with Constellation will continue well beyond 15 years.

When I first finished my MBA, when I was, I was still kind of in a place where if somebody was to ask me, what do you want to do, I don't know that I had as much of a clear career path as many of my fellow students, like in my class at that time. Constellation was offering a rotation program. It isn't something that we are still doing, although I'd love to bring it back at some point in the future. But at that time, we had the opportunity to sit in different parts of the organization, different functional areas of the organization.

What Constellation has given me over the years is really this opportunity to grow new skill sets, to use many of the competencies I got from my MBA. Things like how do you analyze a situation? When there's a lot of gray area and problem solve, how do you kind of look at this situation in a little bit of a different lens and do something to resolve this in sometimes a very creative way? And Constellation, especially in our operations organization, has really afforded me those opportunities to just keep almost owning my fate around how do I want to tackle this? How, as a team, do we want to wrap our arms around this? And that's what's kept me at Constellation. Just…we continue to change, we continue to evolve, but we also have the freedom to, like, decide our own fate in many cases.

I think that was, looking back on when I left Rice, I think that's what I was looking for, is really not so much, this is the functional area that I'm absolutely committed to. This is the industry that I'm absolutely committed to. It was how do I use these skill sets to grow and develop and keep learning, problem-solving, solutioning, like those other kinds of things. I've realized over time are really what get me jazzed and what has kept me with Constellation. So, it was a little bit hard, Scott, to articulate, at the end of my MBA, what I was looking for. But Constellation's appeal to me was that I didn't have to make a decision right away.

[09:10]Scott: I love that. I want to ask a question about, you know, you are passionate about and a champion for DEI – diversity, equity, and inclusion. And would love to just hear a bit about what contributes to that for you. What are sort of, like, the underlying embers and kind of drive and the fire to support that and to make that a central part of what you're solving for?

[09:35]Amanda: Thank you for asking that question because it is an area that I'm very passionate about. I remember when I was at Rice, we had a very diverse class, and it felt very inclusive. But that was 15 years ago, and we weren't really using those words. We weren't using diversity, equity, inclusion as part of, kind of, our normal day-to-day conversation.

Constellation's done amazing embracing what DEI means for corporate America. And as I think about my role as a leader in an organization, I have a sphere of influence. I would never be so arrogant to say I could solve all of the world's problems, especially as it relates to how we create equity, how we create opportunities, how we really create an environment that embraces people for all of their history and background and who they authentically are. But what I can do is influence my own sphere. And today, what that looks like is within my organization.

So, it was, Constellation's commitment to DEI and my own commitment to DEI have nicely intersected in a way that I can play a big role in continuing to create opportunities, continuing to create an inclusive environment.

My real passion for DEI, kind of, comes from my family's history and a little bit of my background. And if you’d give me, kind of, the freedom to share a little bit of that, Scott-

[11:22]Scott: Please.

[11:22]Amanda: … I'd love to share with the audience a little bit more about, kind of, where we come from. So, I am Asian-American, and my family is of Japanese descent.Like many Japanese American families who've been in the United States for several generations, the internment camps of World War II, kind of, intersect with my family's history.

My grandmother and her family were living in California in the ‘40s before the war started. She was born in the United States, along with all five of her siblings. And when the war began, and she was part of 120,000 Japanese-Americans who were forced to leave their homes, she and her family were originally relocated to, basically, a horse truck. So, she, along with a family of seven, lived in what was essentially a horse stall.

They were later moved to an official camp in Poston, Arizona. The Poston Camp became one of the larger internment camps in the United States. She graduated from high school in the camp, and then she and her sister, as part of a work relocation program, they were released early and they were moved to Detroit. These were teenagers who were moving to a new city kind of independently away from their family. And they continued to face discrimination, segregation, and hate as they navigated the new city.

One of the stories we heard, the first thing that happened when they got off the train, is somebody had graffitied on, like, the walls of the train station, “Go home, Japs.” So, it was definitely not a warm and welcome reception leaving the internment camps. Her and her family eventually moved to Texas where she met and married my grandfather. On my grandfather's side of the family, he is also American-born Japanese. But because he lived in Texas, it was a little bit of a different situation, depending on where Japanese-American families were located.

So, unlike families on the West Coast, Texas Japanese families weren't relocated. His father, so my great-grandfather, was arrested by the FBI and hauled, and then later released. I guess you could say that's not as bad as an internment camp, but it's also, you know, not-

[13:48]Scott: It's not nothing.

[13:49]Amanda: … it is still a blemish on our treatment of Japanese Americans during that time frame. My grandfather joined the 442, which is an all-Japanese-American infantry unit, along with many of uncles or uncles in-law. This was a segregated unit of American citizens, segregated for all of the reasons that you can imagine.

So, here's how, kind of, that history intersects with why I'm passionate about DEI. I moved into the role of vice president here at Constellation just earlier this year. And when I accepted the offer, I called my mom, shared the good news with her. But I did ask her the question, what do you think Grandma Okabayashi would say? Do you think this is anything that she could have imagined when she was graduating from high school in an internment camp? Like, is this just beyond what her wildest dreams could have been at that time? And my mom paused and she said, “Well, Amanda,” and you know the way moms will say that. “Well, Amanda,” she said, “I think she'd be really proud of you, but I also think this is exactly what she would've expected.” And that's what really struck me.

As a leader in a huge organization, I do feel a strong sense of accountability for creating a culture that embraces diversity, embraces equity, embraces inclusion. I believe in inclusion. I believe in representation. I didn't even know how important representation was until I saw other people that looked like me in leadership roles. I didn't realize how important representation was until I realized what I was representing to other people, as being the only person in the room that looks like X, Y, Z. You know, those things are things I'm really passionate about.

Constellation has afforded me incredible opportunities for development and challenged, you know, my ability to build business acumen. And I've had amazing mentors over the years. So, continuing to create that experience for my own employees, for the organization with my, within my sphere of influence, that's like a real responsibility to me, but also a very nice privilege.

But the real story behind my passion for DEI, it comes right back to my grandparents. They had very high and very hopeful expectations. They believe that freedom, basic human rights, happiness, and a little success for our families was not only possible, but probable for generations to come. And so, really, when I think about my DEI work and the work we still have left to do, I'm really motivated to do right by them and everything that they did for us.

[16:55]Scott: Thank you, Amanda, for sharing that. Really a powerful background and something for us to learn from. As you work with people in your, in your organization, as you speak with people, what's some of the advice that you give for people? Everyone's sort of at a different stage of their journey. What are some of the things that you have found are helpful as people consider DEI broadly and how to sort of make that a feature of their organizations or bring that sort of front and center?

[17:25]Amanda: I love that you call it a journey because I think if we treat our DEI experiences with a real growth mindset, a real opportunity for us to continue to be open to hearing, open to learning. If we treat DEI like a continuous learning journey, I think there's a lot of benefits and giving each other a little bit of grace for being on different places in that journey, for giving each other a little bit of, “Hey, if you'll be vulnerable, I'll share what my experiences look like, and I'm open to hearing about your experiences.”

In my part of the organization, we are hosting quarterly DEI conversations. I have a team of about 250 people. So, this is conversations, you know, panels, that type of thing, where we are sharing with a very broad audience. Every event that we host internally with my team or corporate event that we're able to attend, I walk away with some new education or learning or experiences that I had never heard about before, that I had never really put myself in somebody else's shoes and having the ability to, one, have that growth mindset. So, you're open to hearing and learning continuously.

And then, two, creating the forums to have those kinds of conversations. I think ultimately leads to, one, you know, just this idea and this concept that we can work together better because we understand each other. I understand where you're coming from. I understand the experiences that are informing the way you get work done.

But also there's this amazing side benefit, that if we understand how to work together better, we will deliver better results for the organization. We can become a high-performing team that delivers for the organization because we've created an environment where everybody's voice matters. You have a totally different experience than mine. If I learn from your experiences and then we use it when we sit around a table to solve a problem, we'll come up with a better answer.

Let me use an analogy, like a system development analogy. You're building a new system, and everybody's sitting around the table. You have somebody that says, I needed to do X, Y, Z for my team. And you have somebody representing your customers from like a customer care organization. They say, “Well, don't forget about the customer, I needed to do this also.” The person who is creating those system requirements will sit back and say, “I didn't think about, you know, what your functional team needed, and I forgot about the customer's going to want this to happen also in this system requirement, let me figure out how to create a solution that does what I was intending, does what you were intending, and does what our customers need also.”

That kind of diversity that sits around a table, not just diversity and ethnicity, but diversity and age and experiences and functional areas, it leads to a better system delivery. If you think about it in that lens and all of the problems you're solving, you come to a better answer. And so, there's this, like, primary goal around let's learn from each other. Let's create an environment where we have community and culture that allows you to bring, you know, that phrase that I use, bring your whole self to work.

But what that really means is you have an opportunity to actively sit at a table, contribute what your experience might create value in solving a problem that delivers better business results. And I like to say that's a nice side benefit, that is not just a side benefit. It is a hugely impactful opportunity that we can harness in corporate America.

[21:43]Scott: Thank you. That's a lot of tangible kind of perspective, actionable. I suspect that it's not always a smooth road, that there's bumps or challenges along the way. Is there sort of an example that jumps to mind where, you know, it wasn't really working the way that you thought and how you approach that and handle those things to steer things back onto track?

[22:04]Amanda: I think that's such a great question, Scott, because we would be remiss in assuming there isn't any resistance in DEI efforts. You know, what I was kind of talking through is these DEI dialogue sessions, when we really started these DEI dialogue sessions with my entire organization was in the summer of 2020, after George Floyd's murder and kind of the social unrest.

We hosted a panel. I was, I had the privilege of being on the panel along with one of my African-American male colleagues. The focus of the panel was Black Lives Matter, and what we talked through was his experiences as a black man in corporate America, my experiences, and how to support him in a moment where we couldn't just, like, live in a bubble about what was happening in the outside world was impacting. You don't just turn off everything when you turn on your computer for work, and it was impacting how it felt to show up and be the only black man in a leadership team or to be the only black man in a room.

And so, we had this very personal conversation. It wasn't about everyone's experiences. It was specifically about his experiences, and how I support him and his experiences by actively listening, learning, not depending on him for all of my education, you know, where there were other opportunities to be educated. That was one of the first DEI dialogue sessions that we did. We've done them every quarter.

The most recent one, we had colleagues who have children with IDDs, so intellectual developmental disabilities, talk about their goals for inclusion, how that affects them and how they get their work done, how that affects their perspective and how they get their work done.

If you think about, like, these wide variety of topics, there's a couple of kinds of resistance. There's, like, the kinds of resistance, and I think this is maybe the kind you would expect. I'm in the majority and I feel excluded from this conversation. I feel like I no longer have value or a purpose because you're not, you know, like are you singling me out because I'm not part of the minority or kind of the outside group? You know, my answer to that is tell me more about it. I want to be an active participant, and anyone who does feel that resistance, not to overcome it, but just that's what inclusion looks like. We hear different perspectives, and we understand them. And we might not agree with them, but we embrace them and we listen. That becomes an opportunity for a partnership. You know, what is your story and how do you bring it forward?

But we also have the other, and maybe this is a little bit more of a subtle type of resistance. This is probably stemming from historically underrepresented groups or what you would consider like the outsider group. I think some of the questions I get from that portion of the population of my organization, is this enough? Have we gone far enough? Is this deep enough to really make a change? We want to ask ourselves those hard questions also. “You're, I, I'm diverse, why are you talking to me about this? Shouldn't you be talking to the non-diverse group of people?” You know, so there's a whole range of potential, you know, to answer your question, a whole range of potential for it not going and not landing or impacting the way that you would help anyone.

And I think if you really believe this is a journey, you really believe that you're learning along the way, then you take that feedback and you say, okay, this is how we'll do it differently. Thanks so much for giving me that feedback. I'm happy to incorporate it in how we continue the conversation, how we continue to create an environment that feels equitable, that feels inclusive, that if you're sitting around the table, everybody has a voice and we're using their valuable input and experiences to deliver what we need to for our customers and our company.

[26:45]Scott: That's really helpful. You know, you've got this deep personal experience to kind of draw from. Are there mentors or other resources that you look to that help to inform and continue evolving your perspective on the topic?

[26:59]Amanda: Absolutely. Absolutely. We've had, at least within Constellation, some amazing guest speakers. Speakers who weren't even, whose only purpose wasn't a DEI topic. I love the connection of Rice here. So, we recently had a keynote speaker named Carla Harris. Carla Harris recently did an event at Rice that I was able to attend also, which is really fun opportunity for me to return to Rice, kind of see her on campus right after we had seen her in, kind of, a forum that was specific to Constellation.

If you guys don't know Carla Harris, She has a couple of books, Lead to Win, Expect to Win. She's an amazing speaker. She was on Wall Street for most of her career. She is a black woman. And as you can imagine, typically, she's the only one in a room. And as you think about her career, and I certainly can't do her justice in paraphrasing her amazing wisdom. But one of the things I remember her talking through in one of her keynote speeches, she uses it as an advantage. If I'm the person that looks like me in the room, they're going to remember me. And that's an advantage.

You know, those kinds of pearls of wisdom, Carla calls them pearls of wisdom, can come from anywhere. And I loved that perspective because it isn't unusual for me to be the only Asian-American woman in a room. Early in my career, it wasn't unusual for me to be the only woman in a meeting or in a room. And Carla's perspective, like, use that as an advantage if you're the only one that looks like you in a room was, you know, something that I took away from seeing her in multiple forums.

There are so many other positive mentors around how to have good DEI conversations and then how to make them actionable, how to really impact and create change.

[29:10]Scott: I love this. Amanda, this has been a great discussion. I want to just ask sort of, like, what advice would you give to prospective students that are considering a Rice MBA experience?

[29:21]Amanda: The first advice I would give you is go to Rice. It's amazing. It's an amazing program. I can't say enough good things about the experience. You know, for me, the immediate sense of community and camaraderie was something I'll carry through my whole life. I don't, I think back to those two years at Rice as just warm, embracing relationships. It was, it was so relationship-focused. Even some of the subtle things that it took me a little while to realize. Partios, breakfast, endless breakout rooms, those are all subtly designed to help you create relationships and community, and like I said, kind of that camaraderie. So, that was really appealing.

I think the other thing I walked away from Rice with was you feel like you're growing and you're learning the whole two years. You feel like the whole two years, you are just, you know, expanding your capacity for knowledge and skill sets, and that feels so rewarding. But it took me a long time in retrospect to also realize there were a lot of intangible skills that you're getting.

The ability to look at a situation and it might appear on paper, like in one of your cases as a black-and-white situation, and you walk away from it and you say, what am I missing? Where's the gray area in here? And how do I think about this a little bit differently? That is a skill set that is not easy to train in someone. It is not easy to replicate except in that kind of business school environment.

And it was only later in my career that I realized how often I was using that skill set. You've given me two options for whatever problem is facing us in the organization, but I think we should go with solution number three, which, it wasn't on the paper, not black and white. Like, let's add into this gray area and figure out what we can do with this. And for me, that was kind of my biggest takeaway from skills that I learned during my business program. So, circling right back to the first answer, prospective students, my answer is, you should go. You're going to love it. It's amazing.

[32:09]Scott: Amanda, what's next as you sort of look ahead on the horizon, sort of in your career or goals that you've got circled on the calendar into the future?

[32:18]Amanda: I'm 15 years post-MBA. I've been with Constellation that entire time, Scott. I'm not going anywhere. My career with Constellation will continue into the future. And at the point that I make a decision to leave Constellation, it will coincide with a point that I decide I've completed my career. So, that is to say, me and Constellation, we're in the, we're in the long haul together.

I do have a young family. My girls are nine and 11. And you know, one of the bigger challenges for me at this place in my family's life and my career life is just kind of balancing the two of them. How am I available to my kids, but also performing well for my organization and in a new role?

You know, like I said, I was promoted to VP earlier this year. The first year in any job takes a lot of time and a lot more energy than I think the second year or the third year. So, this first year, kind of balancing the two of them, has been a little bit challenging. But as I look at the crystal ball, you know, my work-life balance took a precarious kind of turn, tilted the wrong direction this year. And I think that will kind of even back out in the future.

I'm really excited about where Constellation is headed. I am, it's a privilege to be a part of the organization. And so, for me, it's continuing to move the organization forward, keep up with where it's going. We, in the energy industry, experience a lot of changes. They come quickly and that's what's really exciting to me. And I just can't see a point where I'm getting bored in what I'm doing.

[34:11]Scott: Amanda, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your perspective. It's been an absolute privilege. Thanks for joining us today.

[34:17]Amanda: Thank you so much, Scott, for having us. I love your podcast, Owl Have You Know. It's so much fun to listen to other alumni and what they are doing. Hopefully, I lived up to many of the prestigious guests you had previously, but I really-

[34:31]Scott: Indeed.

[34:32]Amanda: … appreciate the opportunity to be here also.

[34:35]Scott: It was a blast. Thanks, Amanda.

Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcast. We'd love to hear what you think. The host of Owl Have You know are myself, Scott Gale, and Maya Pomroy.

[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Flight Path Series, where guests share their career journeys and stories of the Rice connections that got them where they are.

[00:16] Maya: Today on Owl Have You Know, we talk with a Full-Time MBA from 2019 who is changing the innovation landscape, not only in Houston, but the world. A biomedical engineer by trade, visionary and serial entrepreneur, Joanna Nathan shares her career journey, passion for healthcare, deep connection to Rice, and how the heartbreaking loss of her young son serves as inspiration to continue her work in finding groundbreaking technologies to help others. Welcome, Joanna. How are you today?

[00:49] Joanna: I'm great. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:52] Maya: Well, we are exceptionally excited to have you here with us. You have been pretty busy since earning your MBA in 2019. You're truly a serial entrepreneur powerhouse in the healthcare space. And there's so much to talk with you about today, and I want to get to all of it, especially, your latest project, Prana Thoracic, which develops solutions for the detection and intervention of early-stage lung cancer, an extraordinarily innovative medical device startup. So, we'll get to that in a minute, but first, I want to get to your journey about how you were catapulted here with us today.

So, let's start with the fact that you are actually not even Rice twice, but you are Rice thrice, which means that you earned three degrees from Rice and you have definitely earned all of your Owl wings. So, you have a degree, a bachelor's degree, and a master's degree in bioengineering, and your MBA. So, clearly, you love Rice.

[01:58] Joanna: I love Rice. It's my favorite place in the world, yes.

[02:01] Maya: And it's a family affair. Your father went to Rice and earned his Ph.D. in civil engineering in 1987. So, was he the catalyst and inspiration for why you chose Rice three times?

[02:16] Joanna: A little bit. Or, actually, initially, I would say kind of the opposite. My mini-version of teenage rebellion when I was in high school was not wanting to go to Rice because it would be following in my dad's footsteps, and I wanted to be different and carve out my own path. But the summer before senior year, you know, I visited the campus and I absolutely fell in love with this place and the wonderfully nerdy, driven, kind, and collaborative people that made it. It was such a unique culture that I knew I had to go here. So, that really... coming here and visiting and seeing for myself is really what originated, I guess, the love story with Rice.

And then beyond that, just that then extended to Houston, right? All of the same stuff, I think, that is wonderful at Rice extends to Houston, just the diversity. It's a new kind of, you know, city and a little bit of an underdog sometimes, and just the ability to build something here as a young person, that exists... that may not exist everywhere in other major cities. So, I think the love for Rice and Houston came from those things.

[03:21] Maya: So, where did you want to go before?

[03:25] Joanna: I knew I wanted to be a bioengineer, so I was applying to schools mostly up and down the East Coast that were good at that. So, Hopkins, Duke, that kind of stuff. But again, I just... I think the thing that really did it for me here was how kind and collaborative people were. Like, I never felt like, even on the tours, you know, college tours, that kind of stuff, it was always about, we're going to work together and figure this out, your college experience. And then that extended to grad school, right? And I didn't quite get that feel in other places as much. So, I think it was really that collaborative kind of spirit of we're going to get you guys... you know, you have crossed the finish line as a team as Rice. I think that was a huge attractant as well.

[04:09] Maya: So, what made you interested in bioengineering?

[04:11] Joanna: I originally wanted to be an archeologist.

[04:15] Maya: Indiana Jones (laughs)?

[04:16] Joanna: Yes, Indiana Jones. And I wanted to do that actually all the way through, probably, like early high school, it was kind of my primary interest. But I grew up in the Middle East. I was born and raised in Abu Dhabi. And I actually got to experience what archeology truly looked like. And I realized that it wasn't for me. It was a lot less glamour and a lot less adventurous, and a lot more... you know, a lot more meticulous than I anticipated.

And so, I think I was actively searching for something new to work on to kind of spend my life doing in high school, at least. And I read about originally nanotechnology, you know, like the little nanorobots that go in and inject things into tumors and blow them up, stuff like that. And that kind of drove my original interest in bioengineering. That's not what I do today, but that was kind of the original inspiration. And, of course, I've found through testing the hypothesis of my career over and over again that I always come back to wanting to help patients. That's been kind of the consistent theme of my career.

[05:23] Maya: Absolutely, it has been, because you have quite the career. And, I mean, you're not even close to being 40 years old. So, I can only imagine what the future holds for you. It's really exciting to have done so many things in your life. I mean, you've started a nonprofit, you've worked for a VC firm, you've worked for Johnson & Johnson, you were at the Texas Heart Institute, at Saranas — and we'll talk about all of those things. And now, you're the CEO of this really incredible biomedical company that detects lung cancer, which the far reaches of that and saving the world, so to speak, are all ahead of you. And it's really exciting. And it all started right here at Rice.

So, I want to talk to you a bit about how you transitioned from biomedical engineering to entrepreneurship. Now, we know that Rice is the number one entrepreneurship school in the country, really, I would say, I would venture to say the world. So, I understand why you would want to, if you want to go to the number one school, Rice would be it. But what transitioned you from bioengineering into business?

[06:35] Joanna: Yeah. So, I think, for me, I realized through my early work experiences at Texas Heart at Saranas, I realized that I had an interest in developing this very particular skill set, which is building and telling the stories of technologies that could save lives. And again, going back to, kind of, that patient impact piece.

So, you know, when something goes from benchtop to clinic, the term that's used there is translation. If you've heard translational medicine, that kind of term. And I think I get to do two kinds of translations. So, there's certainly that — taking something from an idea to the patient's bedside. But there's also the translation kind of from language perspective and human perspective, I guess, of taking something that is typically a very complex innovation, right, in biology and in medicine innovation is very complex because the body is extremely complex and biology is extremely complex. And taking kind of the scientists and engineers and working with them on their incredible innovation and then translating that into the business world, both in terms of telling the story of those technologies, but then also building the strategy around actually getting those technologies to the market and to the patient.

So, that's kind of why I wanted to find that skill set. And I thought Rice would be a great place to do that, particularly, because of its entrepreneurial focus. And I came back, specifically, to build out all of those pieces — so, storytelling, strategy, learning the investor mindset — because I'd mostly been on the entrepreneur side of the table at that time. And then I ended up gaining a ton of other skills as well — finance, organizational behavior, all of these other things.

I also found an incredible community there. You know, when I started at Rice Business, I'd already been in Houston for about a decade. And I thought all of my friend slots were full and I didn't need any new friends or community. But I ended up finding this incredible community of leaders that really served as a sounding board for... and continue to serve as a sounding board for me, both for work and work issues and life. And now, they're some of my closest friends. So, I've loved doing the Rice MBA. And I tell people all the time I would do it six, seven more times if I could.

[08:50] Maya: Well, that's actually a good idea. Maybe, they'll have like a Rice... I don't even know what you would call like a Rice four times, like a quad-Rice, right? A quad-Rice degree. So, tell me about this nonprofit and what spurred that drive to open a nonprofit.

[09:06] Joanna: At the time, you know, I was a student, a fresh kind of grad. And I'd taken, actually, a Rice Business class. As an engineering student, I took a life science entrepreneurship, which is co-listed with bioengineering and Rice Business. It was really the first time that I had found a group of people that were excited about innovation and life sciences through that class, which is taught by Jack Gill, who's incredible, you know, VC with a great career history in medical innovation. Around that time, that was the first time I really found like-minded people. And I was in the process of transitioning into my career in innovation. And I realized, you know, unlike management consulting or banking or, kind of, these more traditional paths, there wasn't this obvious path or clear cut, you know, "this is the way you get into entrepreneurship or innovation," set out, if that's what you wanted to do.

And so, the nonprofit and venture really started out of that class. It was a group of us that met in that class that wanted to keep that feeling of community going. And so, we started out, you know, as a community organization, with happy hours and breakfast and things like that. And it has grown to this incredible grassroots organization that's still run primarily by students for students. And now, it encompasses education. It has its own accelerator program, all kinds of stuff. Consulting, we consult for a lot of healthcare, early stage healthcare startups. So, it's become this bigger thing of its own. And I'm still definitely involved. But like I said, we intentionally made sure that students were always involved and students drove the nonprofit. And I think that's what's kind of kept it going and kept it aligned to its mission.

[10:51] Maya: And this is an experiential learning opportunity for more than 2,000 aspiring entrepreneurs across Texas. Or, has it grown since then?

[10:59] Joanna: Yeah, it's a, it's a little more than that, especially, because we've now branched out to actually have a chapter in San Antonio as well. That happened in the last couple of years. And then, adding kind of the virtual component over the last just through the pandemic and stuff has expanded our reach to even the coasts and things like that. So, it's a little bit over that in terms of the people that are actively engaged. But that's really taken off. That growth beyond Houston has really taken off in the last few years, kind of thanks to the pandemic.

[11:26] Maya: And it was after Enventure, where you were exposed to venture capital that you were telling me about with your professor, is that what led you to the Mercury Fund here in Houston?

[11:37] Joanna: Yes, yeah. So, I met the Mercury Fund team, actually, through Rice as well. They teach a financing startups course. It's Venture Capital 101, essentially, two of the partners that teach it. And I knew, coming into Rice, that one of the things I really wanted to learn, as I, you know, mentioned earlier with the investor mindset, because I had primarily seen technologies through the entrepreneur's lens or the scientist's lens or the engineer's lens, different things like that, but I had not yet seen or experienced myself how investors validate those technologies, how they decide what is worth, kind of, taking the risk on.

And so, the investor mindset was definitely something I wanted to learn. And through that class, I got to know Aziz and Blair at Mercury Fund and ended up working for them, actually even… in addition to the internship over the summer, I actually worked for them beyond that as well and got to delve deep into how investors work and think and evaluate early stage technology. So, that was a really, really great experience for me that I've been able to put to use as I'm fundraising now, again, on the other side of the table.

[12:45] Maya: So, what did you learn? How do they think and what do they choose to invest in? And what are the top five things that innovators need to... I mean, I'm just going to go right to the root of it, because I want to know the answers, right?

[12:56] Joanna: Yeah, I think there are a few different things I learned. I think one is that, as an investor, you never have all the answers to all of the questions, because there's always going to be, especially, in early stage venture, but really at any point in time as you're investing, you don't know how things are going to work out. You only know the list of questions that you have and how comfortable you can get with the level of risk, kind of, associated with those open questions. So, I think that was a big, kind of, eye-opening thing, is investors don't necessarily have all the answers and need to have every single thing figured out. It's just getting them comfortable to a level of risk that they feel comfortable with some of those open questions. I think that was one big thing I learned.

The second thing I learned is timing, people, all of that matters so much. I think, a fund, depending on where it is in its life, if you're towards the end of the fund versus the beginning of a fund, depending on what else they've invested in their portfolio, there's all of these factors that go into figuring out if they should invest in a company that don't necessarily have to do with that company, right? It doesn't necessarily have to do with the company's merit, but maybe it's that they're late in their fund, and so they can't invest in something that's going to take three or four years to exit; or they've already invested in two things in that space, and so they don't have room for a third. And so, I think that was really interesting to learn as well, is just fund dynamics and how investors themselves have to think about selling their funds to their LPs and stuff and how that plays into the decision-making that they make.

And I think the last big thing that I learned is the people piece is super important. So, investors are really there, ultimately, to help and mentor you. Especially, once they've actually written that check, they are essentially an extension of your team. And I think what I got to see on the investor side is when entrepreneurs are really open and go to their investors with issues and include them as part of their team and treat them as a resource, that's when those relationships work really well, as opposed to the entrepreneurs that feel like they always have to have everything perfect and figured out for the investors. And, of course, there's a balance there, but you don't have to have everything neatly tied up in a little bow at every board meeting. I think the big thing is those investors have seen so many deals. They have pattern recognition. They have access to resources that, you know, an individual entrepreneur may not. And so, it's really important to be vulnerable with them about your issues so that you can leverage some of their solutions. I think that was another big learning for me.

[15:39] Maya: And I think everybody should still take that class, even though you just gave us some of those answers, right?

[15:43] Joanna: Yes, definitely.

[15:45] Maya: That's not the whole class. I didn't ruin it.

[15:47] Joanna: Oh, no, no.

[15:50] Maya: So, after the Mercury Fund, you moved on to Johnson & Johnson and you served as the manager of new ventures and device innovation for three years. Tell me about your time at Johnson & Johnson.

[16:01] Joanna: I got to kind of extend my time in that investor mindset because what I was doing for Johnson & Johnson was managing a portfolio of resident startups that were kind of strategically aligned to J&J's medical device businesses. So, I continued to build on that investor mindset, but I also got to do a lot of portfolio management. So, learning to work across a very broad set of med-tech companies, learning about a ton of new disease states, and then also knowing when to dive deep on a specific issue with an entrepreneur, whether it was their regulatory strategy or they're trying to figure out their hiring plan or they're trying to build their budget for their next raise. Knowing when to kind of dive deep and roll up my sleeves and get involved. And so, yeah, I got to work with several early stage med-tech companies. And in some cases, or in many cases, I got to shape their stories and their strategies and be part of that alongside them. And it was a really great experience for me to be able to do that and, again, leverage all of those lessons as well as I start my own venture again.

[17:02] Maya: And Saranas. So, Saranas is Mehdi Razavi's company. I know Dr. Razavi.

[17:07] Joanna: Oh, really?

[17:08] Maya: Yeah, I do, I do. I know him pretty well. Tell me about Saranas and their cardiology medical device startup.

[17:14] Joanna: So, Mehdi is one of my favorite humans, one of the best mentors I've ever had, and—

[17:18] Maya: Mine, too. I love him.

[17:20] Joanna: So, he was my boss at Texas Heart Institute. And then, as I transitioned into my role at Saranas, he kind of stayed a long-term mentor. So, that company was actually one of the only times I was kind of an engineer, if that makes sense, or one of my only roles where I got to flex that muscle. I ran product development there in the very early stages, as we were going from really early prototypes, kind of still in that napkin sketch idea phase through testing some things and animals and demonstrating that we had a working prototype very, very early. My role at that time was director of product development, and I got to manage a lot of those pieces. And I do really love the challenge of building new technologies, but I think that's also where I got... I realized my passion actually truly laid with storytelling and doing the business side and the strategy, because luckily, the team at Saranas allowed me to branch out into those things and transition into doing more things in addition to just being product development and engineering-focused. So, that was an early experience that helped me, again, narrow into what I wanted to do within innovation.

[18:28] Maya: Managing early stage startups in healthcare, there are significant challenges there. It takes quite a bit to stay motivated to make progress in the medical field. And developing new technologies is a slow and tedious process. So, tell me how you get through that. As an innovator, as an entrepreneur, as a bioengineer, what sort of advice would you give those folks that are out there that are working on the next life-saving technology, that it takes a lot of time and with FDA approval and everything else? Can you touch a little bit about that?

[19:05] Joanna: Yeah. I think most people that work in this world have something that inspired them to do that. And often, that's typically a patient experience or a family's patient experience or something like that of their own. And so, for me, it's going back to that moment from my own experience and leveraging that for the long term, if that makes sense. I think entrepreneurship is lonely. I don't think people realize that. It's hard and it's lonely.

And I think making sure you surround yourself with a community of entrepreneurs is really important. I have a couple of other CEOs, female CEOs of respiratory companies, so very niched, but they truly understand, you know, what I'm going through that I go talk to regularly about, you know, just when I need to vent, when there's nobody I can vent to, you know, that may be on my team or can't vent to my board, you know, stuff like that. It's just so great to have, to have people to rely on that are in the same or in a very similar spot to you.

So, I think seeking that community, finding that community early in your entrepreneur journey is really important. And, you know, Enventure could be part of that. There's a lot of other community aspects to all the different organizations in Houston that do support the innovation ecosystem. I think finding that community is really important, and then keeping that patient experience in mind the end goal of who you're trying to help, the lives you're trying to save, the families that you're trying to keep together, all of that stuff, I think, is really important along the way.

[20:35] Maya: Let's talk about, personally, your own story. You were a single mom to your son, Lionel, who tragically and suddenly passed away last year in 2021 when he was four years old from an undiagnosed health problem. And I'm sure that that has tremendously shaped who you are today and your goals for medical device and medical innovation. And you wrote a very deep, incredible blog about him that I read. And I wanted to take a little bit of time for you to share that experience of your precious boy and the loss you sustained. Can you tell me about him?

[21:14] Joanna: Yeah. Lionel was the greatest little four-year-old. He was our class... our Rice Business class' essentially mascot. He was always running around at Partio and stuff like that. And he really embodied intellectual curiosity. If there was one characteristic I think I had to attribute to him, it was that curiosity. And if there was a second, it would be joy.

So, he just lived life fully. He never hesitated to ask questions. He never hesitated to have a good time. And I think, for me, I'm still going through my grief journey. I will be for my whole life, but it's still, you know, relatively new. It's been, you know, less than 18 months. So, I'm still trying to figure out how I can best honor him and keep his memory going and honor his life.

And I think, you know, Lionel continues to inspire me all the time. So, my experience with losing him, with being in a hospital for five days and just, you know, not knowing what was going to happen, with being the decision-maker on some of the really, really, really tough healthcare decisions that I had to make on his behalf, really, it just... I have all of those things in mind as I kind of move forward into Prana Thoracic. So, I think that whole experience, it's pushed me, Lionel, and losing Lionel has pushed me to love harder, to lean into joy, to experience life to its fullest, just like my kid, and to be a little wild like my kid as well. So, I've spent a lot of time traveling and camping and kind of trying to experience, kind of, that wilderness, wildness, all of that kind of stuff.

For me, as far as how it translates to my work life, work is so much of what we spend our life doing. And I think losing Lionel has inspired me to make that as meaningful and as enjoyable as possible, both for myself and those around me. And I really hope to bring some of those values to my team, as we build it out, over the next few years. But Lionel will kind of be my guiding light for the rest of my career and always the anchor that I come back to when I'm having a tough time or I'm having a bad day or I had a bad board meeting or something. It's helpful to have something like that to drive me forward. As devastating as it was for me, I'm trying to take that and leverage that and use it to help other patients.

[23:34] Maya: Yes, you definitely have a unique perspective. You really do understand the patients that you would be helping with your innovations at a different level than most innovators. And I do want to move on to Prana Thoracic, which is what you're doing now. And I mean, it's... I was reading about it and it's just... it's fascinating. It's a game-changer for cancer patients across the entire world. So, tell me how this brainchild developed and where it is now and where you're planning on going with it.

[24:07] Joanna: Sure, yeah. So, through my time at J&J, I really got to learn a lot about lung cancer. It's a very strong focus for them. And lung cancer is a terribly devastating disease. So, if you're diagnosed with lung cancer, there's a very strong chance the majority of patients will die within a year of that diagnosis. So, to me, that is an unacceptable rate. And we still don't catch it early enough. I think that is the biggest challenge with lung cancer, is, by the time you find it, it's... you know, it's spread rapidly enough or far enough that it's hard to intervene.

So, one of the reasons that this happens or has happened with lung cancer is, historically, we haven't screened for lung cancer. So, we screen for cervical cancer. We screen for prostate cancer, breast cancer, all of these other cancers. And we've seen that screening works and kind of the rates of survival of those cancers has gone up significantly, as screening was adopted for each of those. So, screening has only just begun for lung cancer, specifically for, you know, high-risk patients that smoked a certain amount or of a certain age, things like that. But once you screen, you actually have to find a way to, one, confirm that it's cancer. So, go grab tissue and make sure that you know what you're dealing with. And second, figure out what to do to treat that patient, what the possible treatment pathway is for that patient.

So, Prana Thoracic is working on a solution, a medical device that helps intervene earlier in the lung cancer patient's journey so that they have a better chance at survival, essentially, so that we can catch it early enough to make an impact on their survival. This technology was essentially developed within the Center for Device Innovation, where my last role was. So, I got to be involved with some of the strategy around it. And towards the end of last year, I was approached with the opportunity to spin it out and to run that deal. It was just a few months after I lost Lionel. So, at the time, I wasn't totally sure. But I ended up going on a camping trip soon after that offer. And it just kind of gave me the clarity and helped me realize that was what I wanted to do next, in terms of taking... like we talked about some of my pain, some of my grief, and leveraging that for other patients, other families. So, that's kind of how I decided to take it and run with it. And yeah, now, we're off to the races. We've launched, and we're getting ready to start the next kind of two years of work.

[26:40] Maya: Wow. Well, I can't wait to see where it goes. I'm very excited about it. I know that a lot of people are very excited about it. And I have no doubt that it is going to change the quality of life and the kind of care that cancer patients receive, and hopefully have a much better prognosis than before Prana existed. So, you have had an extremely impressive career in healthcare and entrepreneurship. What accomplishments are you the most proud of?

[27:06] Joanna: That's a really good question. Honestly, I think I am extremely proud of some of the products I've gotten to be part of building and all of that, because ultimately, those impact patients. But I think the multiplier effect of building something like Enventure that could take a bunch of people, you know, maybe even thousands of people, hundreds of people, if not thousands, and inspire them and give them the tools to become entrepreneurs themselves and to take their innovations to market, I think that is actually my proudest achievement because of that multiplier effect, right, of something like that, of being able to give the gift of entrepreneurship, which was somewhat given to me, and pass that on to others. I think that is probably my proudest accomplishment.

I think the other thing for me, thinking about Prana Thoracic, I've thought a lot about what success would look like there. Obviously, getting the device to the bedside is a big piece of that. But for me, another thing I'm very excited about is building a culture of integrity and empathy and communication at Prana. And I think another marker of success for me, similar to the story with Enventure, to make sure that the people on my team have such a good experience that they go on to build their own companies with teams and cultures similar to Prana. So, I think that's a big piece for me as well as I think about the next step.

[28:26] Maya: And that was one of the first things that you started back in 2012.

[28:29] Joanna: Yes, yeah.

[28:32] Maya: And it's been really the force that has driven you and driven so many other entrepreneurs. So, that's exciting. And it's wonderful that it continues on today after you launched it in 2012. In the healthcare space, in the areas that you're not involved in, what do you think can benefit the most from innovation?

[28:51] Joanna: I think one space that needs a lot of attention and I think is finally starting to get it is fem-tech or that OB/GYNs can use, things like that. I think, if you look at the history of how some of those tools and things that are still used today were developed, it's not a great history. And I am excited to see so many entrepreneurs now, like, think about this space and how to do better, because I think it's been an area that has been neglected. You know, there's a lot of people talking about how there's a lack of diversity in clinical trials, both in terms of gender and ethnicity, all of these different things. And so, I think medicine is definitely moving in the right direction, which is not assuming every device, every medication, every drug is meant for a middle-aged man, essentially, and including, kind of, all of these other communities and how they develop new innovations. So, I think that is one that's exciting for me to see. It, was... I worked on a project in the fem-tech space while I was at Rice. And so, it's been really exciting to see that space get so much attention in the last couple of years. And I hope that only continues to grow.

[30:01] Maya: I mean, it is 52% of the population is women.

[30:04] Joanna: Yes, yeah.

[30:05] Maya: So, the majority of population, you know.

[30:06] Joanna: Yes. Yeah. And we make 80% of healthcare decisions. So, I mean, it's, you know, even beyond just affecting our bo-, we make the healthcare decisions for our families a lot of the time, too.

[30:18] Maya: Yes.

[30:18] Joanna: So, we should absolutely have more people targeting us and technologies that help us and are built for us.

[30:25] Maya: Yes, absolutely. So, you, like I said, graduated in 2019. And for those potential MBA students at Rice that are thinking about Rice as their home for the next couple of years to pursue their MBAs, what advice would you give them? And what would you say, why should they choose Rice over any other school in the country and, really, the world?

[30:49] Joanna: Rice is an incredible community, and I go back to the original thing I said about how wonderfully kind and collaborative the community is here. And if you can just think about how much that would shape your MBA experience, I think that's the thing I focus on, is really, the people that I'm surrounded with, both in terms of my classmates, but even the faculty, the staff. Everybody is really there to collaborate and help you. And I think that's the big draw.

And then you can follow that with, you know, high-ranking and entrepreneurship and finance and all of these great things. I think Rice actually is incredibly academically strong, which isn't necessarily always a focus for MBA programs. But I think Rice, really, you really have to work hard to do well. It's... you know, it's not necessarily like a checkbox kind of thing as far as the academics. So, that's really strong as well, I think.

In terms of advice, again, I always go back to people. I think there's definitely a lot of things, hard skills and things like that you can focus on through the MBA. But I think, for me, what I've come away with is that community of people, that are some of my closest friends or my sounding board for work and life, that is the greatest asset that Rice Business has given me. And sometimes, that includes people, like I said, faculty at Rice that I can go back to and ask questions and ask for help. Really focusing on, in addition to all of the stuff you have to do for your grades, for your career path, really leaning into that community, really leaning into your class, and building your network, not just in terms of how you can use the network, but building that community piece, is a really important aspect of the MBA. And so, I would say to definitely leverage that.

[32:30] Maya: Wonderful. Well, Joanna, it's been a sincere pleasure to talk with you today. And we are incredibly grateful for your time, your insight, your contributions, not only to Rice, but to the healthcare industry. And I, for one, cannot wait to see what Prana does and what you do, because, you know, I know that Prana isn't the end. It's somewhere towards the beginning of all the incredible things that you have yet to do. So, thank you so much for being with us here today.

[32:57] Joanna: And thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation.

[33:02] Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.