[00:00]Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Brian Jackson is an expert when it comes to challenging himself in unchartered waters. The 2021 MBA@Rice online graduate has a diverse background and upbringing, from living in different corners of the earth as a child, to setting his sights on political science with visions of pursuing law, to pivoting from a role as an oil and gas landman to the renewable energy space. The new Rice Business Alumni Board president talks to us about the things that matter most, about how the adversity he has overcome was a blessing and also a gateway to his meaningful growth, both personally and professionally. 

Our guest today is Brian Jackson, Online MBA, the Class of 2021. Hey, Brian.

[00:56]Brian: Hi, Maya, how are you doing?

[00:58]Maya: I'm good. You're coming to us from Boston.

[01:00]Brian: That’s right, I'm in Boston. I'm actually, it's an area called the South End, so, pretty unique historical location.

[01:07]Maya: I mean, you went to school in Texas. So, we'll talk about Boston in a minute, what brought you to Boston. But you have been busy since you graduated from Rice. And the Online MBA program is actually one of the newer programs that Rice has. And you are currently the manager of renewables origination at TransAlta Corporation and, also, the president of the Rice Business Alumni Board. Congrats! That's a really awesome role to have.

[01:36]Brian: Yeah, no, I've been, like you said, busy. It's been a really great role getting to connect with alumni, also, work with external relations. I just really wanted the opportunity to continue to give back and stay connected to Rice. And everything, kind of, fell into place, and here we are.

[01:53]Maya: Well, that's one way, certainly, to do it. You are the first president from the Online MBA program, which is super exciting. When I was considering Rice, the Online MBA program had just recently launched, and that was one that I had looked into as well. So, what was it about the Online MBA that really drove you to it?

[02:14]Brian: Yeah, you know, when I was looking at different MBAs, just finishing up law school, about to take the bar exam, decided on a whim to start looking at different programs, and realized I was going to need a ton of flexibility. Starting out as a lawyer, you have pretty much set requirements and expectations and your first year is pretty rough. The online program gave me that. It gave me the flexibility to really fit it into my schedule. The evening classes, they were possible, let's say driving home late from whatever county I was in, I was able to log into class and get the information.

So, that's really what pulled me to it. Beyond that, it was also, it's connected to Rice, right? And I had always wanted to be a part of Rice, to be a student at Rice, to be an alumni from Rice. And so, this was, really, I, kind of, felt like the only way I could do it all and, kind of, fit it into my timeline.

[03:08]Maya: Yes. And so, you went to Texas A&M and you got a bachelor degree of political science. And then, you went to South Texas College of Law for your law degree. So, tell me about your time at A&M.

[03:19]Brian: You know, A&M was an interesting time for me. I grew up overseas. So, when I was born, my parents were living in West Africa. And after that, we moved to Canada, then Houston, then Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, and then Indonesia, the last for me.

[03:35]Maya: Wait, what did your parents do?

[03:37]Brian: So, my dad works in oil and gas. He worked for a company called Cameron, which was later Schlumberger.

[03:42]Maya: Yes.

[03:43]Brian: But my parents had lived overseas since the 1980s, so it was just always, kind of, a part of the picture. We were going to do it, you know, no matter what. But when I moved back to the U.S. to go to A&M, it was my repatriation. And I hadn't lived in the U.S. what, in 15, 16 years? So, it was a bit of culture shock to, kind of, say the least.

[04:03]Maya: What was your favorite place where you lived? Because you just, you just told me a whole lot of fascinating places, and I want to know which one your favorite was.

[04:12]Brian: I thought about this. I think I was, what, in first and second grade when we lived in Thailand. And I was 16, 17, 18 in Indonesia. So, like, different age group, kind of, different interests. But I think Indonesia is probably my favorite. I would say my most lifelong friends are the ones that I stay connected with. I actually just had a friend's wedding in D.C., where all the friends from Indonesia flew in. So, folks from Australia, from Norway, all of a sudden, we're all in D.C., and it's like no time has passed, an incredible country, an incredible culture. Really just privileged to be there.

[04:47]Maya: Well, so you, you really grew up in an environment where diversity was, sort of, weaved into you. From what it sounds like, you needed to know how to adapt to lots of different kinds of environments with lots of different cultures and ethnicities. And I mean, that's a, that's a skill. Well, it's a quality that is difficult to teach. Some, you can learn it as a skill, but not everybody. Well, very few are actually born with it, right?

[05:15]Brian: Yeah, you know, I think, growing up, it was always this idea that diversity actually created more value. And I remember my parents were so proud, my friend group in high school, it was probably about 15 guys that we'd all hang out and drink beer on a Friday, but…

[05:31]Maya: In high school? Don't tell people that. I'm just kidding. It's a different country, it's all good.

[05:35]Brian: But across the 15, we represented, let's say, seven different nationalities and ethnicities. It just, kind of, that diversity itself was just so incredible. And my parents recognized it, it was a part of what I recognized. And that's why I think they're probably my best relationships, because we really shared this, kind of, unique setting and group.

[05:57]Maya: And so, coming back to Texas, right, what year was that?

[06:01]Brian: 2012.

[06:03]Maya: Okay. So, what was that like? That was probably a culture shock for you as well.

[06:09]Brian: Yeah. I think when I was abroad, and I think the longer time goes, the more I reflect on it, I, kind of, am figuring out what all this meant to me, and, you know, there were, kind of, some significant learnings that have happened over time, right? But I think the biggest thing was recognizing that, when we were in Southeast Asia, you know, I really clung on to this identity, “Oh, I'm from Texas. I'm a Texan. We're Americans,” and this whole thing because that was, kind of, all I really felt like I had, right? And then, all of a sudden, moved back to Texas and folks at A&M would be like, “Oh, yeah, what high school or what school did you go to?” And I'd be like, “Oh, man, you know, there's a long version or a short version.” And in the beginning, I wanted to tell everybody the long version. And then, after a while, I, kind of, I realized maybe pick and choose the audience here, but, kind of, then recognizing that, yeah, after being abroad and thinking, “Oh, yeah, I'm this Texan,” realizing maybe I'm not, you know, and maybe there's another way to define myself.

[07:10]Maya: Yes. So, that's interesting that you say that because I think that you want to feel connected and relatable, right, to this place. And then, if you're gone for a little while and you come back, it's changed and you've changed based on the experiences that you've had.

[07:29]Brian: No, exactly. And yeah, coming to terms with what that meant. I mean, honestly, college is hard for everybody, and then you, kind of, throw in a bit of identity crisis to it and trying to sort out who you are, I don't know. I was fortunate to do it at A&M. It's a great town, College Station – Bryan.

[07:48]Maya: Sure.

[07:48]Brian: I also found some great mentors, kind of, later through college. I started working at a small firm for an attorney named Rick Davis, and really just a great guy, great firm. And doing the work let me, pretty much, it, kind of, helped me figure out, kind of, different boundaries or different ways and different connections to Texas and, you know, finding, maybe, more identity in a profession.

[08:12]Maya: Is that the person that propelled you to pursue your JD, your law degree?

[08:18]Brian: Oh, absolutely. I think I showed up to undergrad with this idea that my dad was an oil and gas, I had to go back and be in oil and gas, I wanted to live abroad. So, the straight ticket was to be a petroleum engineer. Well, I'm not very good at math or science, so it didn't go my way. So, I pivoted into political science, and that was when I met Rick.

And I mean, I was meandering in political science, thinking, “What do I do? What is this degree really going to… what doors is it going to open?” And law school, I mean, it made a lot of sense for me at that point, if that makes sense, Maya.

[08:52]Maya: It totally makes sense. So, my dad's a petroleum engineer from Azerbaijan. And he, actually, was the one that was like, “You should go to law school.” I was like, “No, I don't want to go to law school.” So, it's, kind of, funny that you thought your path was going to be oil and gas and it turned out to, actually, we're going to jump to that in a minute, but it's turning out to be oil and gas. But we're going to go down the path of your journey of what led you back to oil and gas. So, you graduated from A&M, and then, I guess, you took the LSAT and went straight to law school.

[09:28]Brian: I took the LSAT and, yeah, went right to South Texas. South Texas felt like, really, the option for me because it was located in Houston, it's downtown. And I really felt having that proximity to the courthouses, having that proximity to the other firms around would open doors for clerking or, kind of, part-time employment during school, which is what I inevitably did. I worked for a really storied firm, called McGinnis Lochridge and I clerked for them, I think, was it 2L and 3L years for my second and third year, and learned a lot from some really incredible attorneys. And that's really what I felt South Texas was offering, was this unique opportunity to be in the thick of it.

[10:12]Maya: Okay, yeah, because the first year they scare you to death, the second year they work you to death, and the third year they bore you to death. Is that, is that about right?

[10:21]Brian: You have it spot on. It's Socratic seminar, right? And the professor has a roster of all the students, and, you know, they'll go down the list and randomly pick. And all of a sudden, “Mr. Jackson, please, you know, recite the case,” and you stand up and have to give a summary and then talk about the implications of the story of the case and what precedent it sets. And yeah, it was awful.

[10:45]Maya: Well, yeah, I mean, I would, I would be sweating just walking into that, into that lecture hall, knowing that that's a possibility and most likely that's going to happen to me sooner or later. What kind of law were you interested in? What kind of law did you want to pursue?

[11:00]Brian: I was trying to figure it out. And at the firm, I was seeing civil law and, kind of, oil and gas litigation. So, getting a bit of exposure there. And then, at school, you were able to pick your classes and try to, somewhat, specialize. And they had a ton of oil and gas, kind of, law-focused courses. So, that's what I really did and I leaned into, thinking that, ultimately, I would take it and be an oil and gas attorney, either practicing through land and title work or being what is, kind of, pseudo law as a land man. So, that's where I shifted the focus towards, really, oil and gas.

And in law school they do on-campus interviews, what is it, your first and second year. And so, different companies will come in, different firms. And I was fortunate, Anadarko Petroleum, they came and interviewed looking for landmen. And it was an internship over the summer. And you would go up to Midland, spend the summer in Midland. And if it all went well, they'd offer you a job post-graduation and post-bar, right? So, I did that my second year, spent the summer in Midland, which was yet another culture shock.

[12:09]Maya: I lived in Midland for six and a half years. My dad was a petroleum engineer, so I know exactly where you were. And my husband's from Odessa, or as he likes to lovingly call it Slowdeatha. Sorry if I offend anybody. But yeah, I'm very well-versed in Midland. And it is significantly more of a metropolis than it was in the ‘80s when I lived there. So, you, like, have a whole lot more, like, options in terms of where to go to dinner and all that. But no, I mean, it's not a Houston. Or, I mean, it's not even a Bryan, College Station, right? Not to knock Midland. There's some great things about it. But it's a culture shock.

[12:48]Brian: Yeah, it was. And, you know, I spent, what, three months there, and they had offered me a full-time role back in Midland. And I was ready to go back and work a few years post law school. But Anadarko was acquired by Occidental. And my timing was just not right. And so, actually, I think, a week before my start date, they rescinded the offer.

[13:10]Maya: What was that like? That probably was unexpected.

[13:14]Brian: So, I think the power of a network, it can just cannot be understated. I sent out a billion emails. I was scouring LinkedIn. I was talking to career resources at South Texas. I reached out to A&M, did the same thing. My old firm in College Station had said, if I wanted to go work there, I could. Really wasn't a part of my plan, so I didn't take that offer. But one night, happened to be out at the bars in Houston and ran into an old law school classmate who said, “Hey, I work at a firm and we're looking for associates. Do you want to come interview?” And three days later, I had a job.

[13:50]Maya: Awesome. Did you like it?

[13:52]Brian: Yeah. You know, I think, when you're searching for a job from a position of just necessity, it's so different, the questions you ask, the values you're looking for, kind of, this idea of mentorship and growth. Maybe are, kind of, all put on the back burner because you're just…

[14:09]Maya: Need a job.

[14:11]Brian: You're looking for a paycheck. And so, that's where I ended up, right, kind of, in a safe harbor, so to speak.

[14:19]Maya: But maybe not the best fit?

[14:20]Brian: Yeah, maybe not the best fit. Exactly. And, you know, I think having had that experience, now when I look at a role, or let's say recently when joining TransAlta, it changed the questions I asked in the interview. It changed, really, what I was focusing on and the indications I was looking for because of that experience, right? But you don't know to look for those things or to ask those questions, I think, unless you've had that exposure.

[14:45]Maya: Or wisdom, right? Older and wiser.

[14:47]Brian: And the wisdom.

[14:50]Maya: So, you were there. How long were you there at that firm?

[14:53]Brian: Just a little over a year. Unfortunately, while I was working there, COVID happened in March of 2020, and client outlook didn't look so great. And so, kind of, the workload diminished and attorneys rely on billable hours. And if you're not billing anything, you're not generating revenue. And so, you know, you're not really needed.

[15:14]Maya: So, then what do you do?

[15:18]Brian: So, then what do you do? I think the way I put it, you know, you can never quit, right? You always have to be moving and always be thinking about your next step and how you're growing and developing. So, I saw what was happening in the industry. So, I built a small book of business that I was able to carry over myself. And I sustained, kind of, what I needed to do until I figured out what made sense and where I should be heading next. I knew I didn't want to be a solo practitioner. I knew I didn't want to have my own firm, but I was able to take and, kind of, use what I had to get me and propel me to where I needed to be next.

[15:59]Maya: Was that when you decided that you wanted to pursue law? Or, was that when you decided you were going to shift to another profession? Is that when that, sort of, the little birdie in your head, maybe, was like, “Hey, maybe not law?”

[16:16]Brian: So, I mean, during this period of my life, too, I'm doing my MBA, right? And at this point, I've got, maybe, I think, a year left in the program. And I'm hearing my classmates talk about, you know, different entrepreneurial efforts. And at the same time, I'm working on my own entrepreneurial efforts and just testing the waters, right, trying to figure out what makes sense.

And for me, I felt like there had to be a role or something out there that would be an intersection of the hard skills from a legal background, but also combine this business savvy from the MBA. I was fortunate enough, my partner who I had been with at the time moved up to Boston for dental school. And so, I felt like I needed to move to Boston, which was a geographic shift for me. But then, also, it got me open to different industries, because in Boston, I'm not licensed in Massachusetts. So, unless I was willing to take another bar exam, I wasn't going to have much work.

So, it forced me to look into roles that were pseudo legal. I felt like that title would get me into something I knew I could be successful with, but then, also, find opportunity to grow. I was really lucky, found a role at a company called Enel North America, who's a… they're a very large renewable energy owner, operator, and developer. And it was within their commercial office, so a commercial function. And that's where I shifted into this renewable energy path.

[17:44]Maya: Yeah. So, let me ask you about your experience at the firm that you were in. How was it to be gay and to be in a law firm in the South? What was that experience like for you?

[17:57]Brian: I think, eye-opening. I'd always had concerns, right, about putting that out there openly and, kind of, held that card pretty close to my chest, because, as much as we like to think we live in this world where, you know, you're judged purely on your work product or you're judged purely on the results you bring, it's not necessarily the truth.

[18:22]Maya: Yeah.

[18:22]Brian: And I always felt like that could be held against me. So, you know, having, kind of, that exposure and having difficult conversations and maybe being put in places where my diversity wasn't necessarily celebrated or actually desired really impacted how I view my career now at large, right? Like, looking 30, 40 years from now, the things that matter to me are so different than what I would have said in 2019 because of that experience, right?

You know, I joined TransAlta back in April of this year and immediately sought opportunity to join the diversity council, because, one, I know outwardly we were, we were saying the right things. But then, two, I want to be a part of those conversations, because having seen how awful it can be, you know, I want to ensure I do my best to build an environment where those things don't repeat and don't happen again.

[19:23]Maya: How do you do that?

[19:24]Brian: You know, I think a lot of how I've… what I've been feeling is the right way to approach it is to actually just speak it into existence. I think people forget that these things still happen. I think that we all like to live in this world where, you know, maybe not necessarily we understand, you know, what's happening to our neighbor and what experience they're having, and we do get busy in our day to day.

I feel like the best thing I can do is be vocal and sometimes wear my heart on my sleeve and say, “Hey, you know, actually, this is what's happening and this is what's happened to me. I'm sitting at this table and here to work with you because I'm coming from this place of this experience.”

[20:09]Maya: It's important to also recognize that, when you look at somebody, there's a lot of things that you don't see, right? There's a lot of qualities that they have that you don't know about, diversity that they bring that you can't see. That's something that I've also noticed in my own experience, where I don't look when you look at me diverse, right? But in my background, there's a significant amount of diversity, but people just assume, because my name's different now because I got married. And so, that's… you have very different conversations with people, I've noticed. You know, when they know my maiden name and they, kind of, know my story and where I came from and, you know, but on the surface, I don't look particularly different than anybody else, and neither do you, you know.

[21:01]Brian: Well, I mean, sometimes I sit here and I… I even said it recently. I sit from a place of advantage. I am a White male. So, at the outset, I do have, you know, some parts I feel like I can, I can walk into a space and not have certain assumptions thrown my way. But then, you know, the conversation deepens or someone says, “Oh, yeah, so what are you doing for the holidays?” I tiptoe around the pronouns or I tiptoe… So, then, all of a sudden, all of that feeling is gone, right? And then, I'm afraid if I say “he/him,” you know, I open this door of, “Well, now, they're not going to want to talk to me. Now, they're not going to be as friendly as they once were,” right? I feel like, kind of, like you're saying, there's the things that we see and then the things that we don't.

[21:44]Maya: It's complicated. It's complicated.

[21:49]Brian: But, you know, coming from this experience and you and I talking about it this way, you know, should it have us open our eyes and think about, then, how do we treat other people? And how do we, you know, show empathy? How do we show kindness? How do we just talk to other people?

[22:05]Maya: Yes, and also recognize that we're more alike than we are different. That's something that is so… you know, it's really the root of everything. You can celebrate differences, but also the recognition that we're all so much more alike and want the same things, you know, that human condition that's all the same.

[22:27]Brian: It's like celebrating it, too. Like, to recognize that other folks have had, maybe, a harder journey getting here, I think it's like the best thing that we can do, because then you're actually taking the moment to say, “Hey, I know what it took, right? I'm trying to understand what it took.”

And I've always felt like at my lowest, I always learn the best. Like, I learn the most about myself. You know, when I'm going through the hard periods or trying to figure out my next step, that's when I find my limits and I learn, “Okay. Actually, I thought this was my strength. This isn't. This is my strength.”

[22:59]Maya: Yeah.

[23:00]Brian: And it's easy now to talk about it and be like, “I'm thankful I had the challenges I had because they're so important to how I think and how I view things.” And I think it's given me this… a good lens to move forward with. But in the moment, right, you don't see that. I wouldn't, you know, at the time, I would have fast-forwarded as quick as possible out of it.

[23:21]Maya: So, while you were in your Online MBA at Rice, walk me through that experience and what really drove you to want to be a part of Rice post-graduation.

[23:34]Brian: You know, I think, the one thing I didn't emphasize enough, like, my ambition to attend Rice, a large part of it was, yeah, building new relationships. The way I got through law school was those, that study partner. Grant Beiner, he's my study partner. We're thick as thieves. I ate dinner at his house too many times, but wouldn't have made it without him.

But same thing with my MBA. Jonathan Miller was my study partner, my confidant. Absolute, just without him, I don't know if I would have made it. But we were both, right, balancing. He had a really challenging career and was looking at a lot of growth. I was going through, you know, all the ups and downs of figuring out my career. And having, kind of, just that absolute rock to lean on was huge. So, absolutely, Jonathan Miller, I owe a ton to. I'll say his name five more times today, but…

[24:26]Maya: Maybe we should have him on as a guest. That might be a good person to have on Owl Have You Know.

[24:32]Brian: Absolutely. He's fantastic. We also shared, he has a husband. So, we had that in common. And just really stuck together through the experience. I had some really awesome classmates. I think the online program, what's so cool about it is that everyone's still typically working. So, they all come from this different background where you're hearing, not only about what's going on personally, but in their career at the same time.

So, like, Alex Resnick was a fantastic classmate. Nicole Neal, I'm trying to think of everyone. Sam Pannunzio. Just, like, everyone's backgrounds were just so diverse, right, professionally. Now, like, seeing, kind of, where they've all filtered off and where they've gone to is just even more fun.

[25:16]Maya: That's really cool, yeah.

[25:18]Brian: We were hearing about the challenging, you know, conversations at work, and then all of a sudden, where they shifted and how they leveraged it. And that's the fun part.

[25:26]Maya: What are your goals for being the president of the Rice Alumni Board? And personally, professionally, like, what does the future have in store for you? That's a whole lot of questions all at once. So, I'll let you order them in whatever order you'd like to.

[25:41]Brian: Sure, I'll start with the Rice Business Alumni Association Board. I mean, it's been an absolute privilege to be the president. I found myself wanting to learn or expand different skills. And, like, speaking in public is something that I always want to work on. And developing strategy and presenting goals and receiving feedback, those are all things I get to do in this position, which I feel like is going to help me as I answer the other two questions that you had.

But, you know, the goal for the board this year, I really started, I just wanted the central theme to be engagement, just engagement across the board. So, where we spend our time, where we volunteer, what events we're attending, looking out, we contribute back to the university, be it, again, if it's a volunteering effort, if it's networking, if it's, you know, supporting career resources, but also then looking at financial contributions, but all of it being tied to this theme of engagement. So, you know, the board's actively seeking opportunities to focus its efforts with the university, I think the most immediate need being the McNair Hall new addition, the new building that's going to be built, I think what, in the next… [crosstalk 26:58].

[26:53]Maya: So exciting, so exciting.

[26:56]Brian: It’s awesome. And for me, in the board, it really seems like a perfect opportunity for us to look at how we engage with the alumni network and then really pull us all together to contribute.

[27:09]Maya: Well, Brian, it has been a pleasure. And we would love to keep in touch with you. Let us know what you're doing. You know, you've definitely done quite a lot in the last two years. And I can only imagine, like you said, what you're going to do in the next 5, 10, 15. So, keep us posted.

[27:25]Brian: Will do, Maya. Thank you for the time today. I really appreciate it. And yeah, let's stay in touch.

[27:29]Maya: My pleasure.

[27:31]Outro: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.

[00:00:00]Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Thank you for coming to check out this episode of Owl Have You Know, a Rice Business Podcast. I'm Scott Gale, one of the hosts here on the show. And for today's episode, I'm joined by T. Canady Barton, a 2010 graduate of the professional MBA program at Rice. We explore her journey from engineer to corporate disruptor to entrepreneur and everywhere in between.

Don't forget to subscribe, like, and share. Enjoy the show!

[00:00:37]Scott: All right, welcome to Owl Have You Know. I am joined today by Taneshia Canady Barton, better known as T, Professional MBA from Rice, graduated in 2010. T, welcome to the show.

[00:00:50]T. Canady: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:00:52]Scott: So excited to have this conversation. Lots of things to just cannonball into. As I look across your resume, T, you've got some of the world's biggest company names on your resume. And so, I want to get into that, but, kind of, take us back. You're a chemical engineer by training. Why chemical engineering?

[00:01:11]T. Canady: It was hard for me to decide what to major in. And I wanted to pick something that left me lots of flexibility. You know, growing up, what you hear, at least in my neighborhood, was, you know, you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer. And so, engineering was one of those things where, “Okay, if I have to pick one, then if I'm an engineer, then I can still go and be a lawyer or a doctor.” People like engineers, right? I was really good at math and science. I loved chemistry, still do. I nerd out at the periodic table, all of that. And so, I thought about biomedical and I thought about a lot of different fields, but that seemed to be the one that was most flexible, left me the most options, honestly.

So, it was all about, “Well, where do I go from here?” And since I wasn't 1,000% sure, I wanted to leave the doors open. So, that's, kind of, how I landed on it. And I stayed with it. Despite all of the falling soldiers on my sides, I decided to stick it out. And I'm glad I did.

I think, one of the biggest things about chemical engineering that people don't really understand is that it's really about process and how to solve a problem, not the exact answer. You could totally ace a chemical engineering test without having the precise answer. That's good, but they care more about how you think. And so, it actually ended up being a really good fit.

[00:02:30]Scott: Love that. As a recovered chemical engineer myself, I appreciate the perspective on that. So cool, that problem-solving capability that, sort of, comes along with it. Tell us about, kind of, your first job out of undergrad. What, kind of, led to that? What was, kind of, your thinking? What was, sort of, that next step from, “Hey, I like math and science. I'm out here doing something challenging, learning how to solve problems? Like, what was, kind of, that thinking early in your career?

[00:02:56]T. Canady: Right. So, it actually started, kind of, pre-graduation. I had a ton of internships, some of which I found things that I really, really love, like, new business development, exploring, innovation, all of those types of things. The chemical plant, per se, was not my forte. I was wearing steel toe boots all the time, and, you know, just the different things that come with that.

It was not really my jam, but there were a lot of things that I liked about it. And, for me, it was, you know, going into graduation, again, still that same mindset of I want to keep my options open. I'm not exactly sure where I'm going to land, but there are things I know I like and things I know that, you know, I prefer to do less of.

And when I was making considerations, it was really roles that were more sales-focused, roles that were more business-focused, and then roles that were deeply, deeply technical in a very specific niche. And at that time, I didn't know what I wanted my niche to be, but I did know that I wanted to be on the commercial end.

And so, I ended up going into global services at ExxonMobil. And one of the main reasons is because of the international view of things, the complexity of the business, and then the ability to work with so many different functions on a daily basis to really drive business decisions. I mean, you go into a company like ExxonMobil, and they give you so much responsibility so quickly because they've hired people that they can really trust. And at that time, they had a huge drive to get engineers into the business space because they felt that we could understand the business more deeply.

And so, it was actually a really great fit. And that's how I made my decision. I often look back now, though, and say, “I wonder what would have happened if I would have chosen a role in sales,” because in so much of the work I do now, there is a sales function of it, right? You either are training salespeople, working very closely with salespeople. And so, I'm very adjacent to that role. But at the time, it was wanting to have a bigger impact and a broader focus. And I think that still holds true today. I like to do things that have bigger impact and broader focus.

[00:05:08]Scott: I mean, Exxon's a world-class spot to land for an engineer. Sort of joke, when you get a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering, you can't, like, engineer your way out of a paper bag. But you go to a company that can, you know, then teach you how to do that. And so, understanding, kind of, the trappings around that. You then pivoted from ExxonMobil to, was it IBM?

[00:05:29]T. Canady: Oh, boy. It was a, kind of, windy path. So, one of the things, like I said, I was, I was still exploring. I mean, that's what you do at 18, 22 years old. You're still exploring, you're still figuring out who you are, what you love. And, you know, there were so many things that I really loved about ExxonMobil.

Again, I worked with legal, I worked with warranty, I worked with huge projects overseas, I worked with all the major stakeholders with these huge exploration projects and production projects and so many great things. But the one thing that my heart was missing was innovation and a quicker pace. We know that, you know, in oil and gas, things tend to take a very long time to develop. And you have to pay your dues. It's just what it is. And so, there's people that have been there before you, that have earned the right to move on more quickly than you have. And one of the things I wanted to do is, I was getting promoted, I was getting awarded, but I wasn't necessarily getting more opportunities to innovate and, kind of, build business.

And so, really hard decision, but I decided to walk away and do some more exploration from an entrepreneurial standpoint. And so, my now husband and I decided to move out of the state of Texas and go to Atlanta and start exploring there. And so, he was graduating. And he was with a firm that allowed him to have a base there. And I just started to go deep into tech, right? And I just started to shadow anybody that would allow it. I just had lots of conversations. I translated what I learned in all my years of schooling at ExxonMobil and got into a role in a tech company and a tech organization where I could just basically translate those skills.

And from that, I ended up… because of all these other skills, I ended up leading major innovation projects. And it went from project management to program management to portfolio management. And over a very few number of years, because of this, just, passion that I had for execution and innovation, it just, it skyrocketed.

And so, I feel like, being in Atlanta were some of my most fundamental informative years, because just the environment that just was so conducive to allow me to, what I like to say, fly, they didn't have as many barriers around me on where I could move or where I could go. If you could prove you could do the work, you could do it. If you could shine there, they let you shine.

And so, yeah, I did work for IBM. I also worked with InterContinental Hotels Group. Still friends with so many people there. I worked for several companies that are just so much of a part of who I am today, have helped make me who I am today.

[00:08:11]Scott: That's so awesome. Was there, sort of… I'm interested in, sort of, like, the motivators for you. Or, were there mentors or people that you look up to or somebody's story that you were, sort of, like, “I can, I… that's what I want to go do?” Was it just, sort of, more internally driven or was it…

[00:08:26]T. Canady: I wish I knew, Scott. I wish I knew, because I'm trying to figure out who this person is and where she came from. I think my biggest driver was just do something big, like, you need to do something. And I've said before that my only fear in life has ever been, really, mediocrity. And I just knew that whatever I did, it needed to have big impact. Like, it needed to be significant. I don't show up to hold space, you know, and just take up space and not do anything with it.

And so, I think that was… well, it's my motivator. I remember being, like, 11, 12 years old and sitting on the curb outside of my house and watching cars go by and thinking, “Where are these people going? What are they doing?” I wonder if they're happy doing what they do. And I wish I could do more to help more people find joy in what they're doing every day because I saw so many people that just went to work. That is what they did. They went to work. It was a means to an end. It was something that they had to do. It was not a pleasure, necessarily, right?

You found joy in it in some ways, but it was not a pleasure. And so, no, I didn't have, in my immediate vicinity, people that, you know, were doing things I wanted to do. I don't, it hadn't even been invented at that point. You know, transformation, innovation was not really the talk of the town. It was, make the donut, right? Like, just do it. Or at least in the circles that I was in.

But I do remember one time seeing…I think it was 2020. And recently, I tried to find this. And I think the company, I don't want to mess up the company name, but they were doing innovation. And something sparked in me so loudly, I could almost hear it, where they were talking about how they were creating products and what the innovation process was. All of the things that had to do with that and how it was this think tank and, you know, how they made it all happen and they brought new things to life, that is what I gravitated towards. And I think, for a long time, without knowing it, that's what I was chasing.

[00:10:29]Scott: Love that. Thank you for sharing. I think that's so cool. And I'm… I want to ask, the time that you've spent, sort of, thinking about disruption and innovation, like, to think about it as, like, you know, these big organizations have this weight of incumbency and they just, kind of, have the way they do things, what are some of the, like, fundamental principles of disruption, in your view, from your learnings? Just curious around the…any commonalities in that, or things to look out for when you're trying to disrupt a big incumbent.

[00:10:56]T. Canady: Well, I'll say loud and clear that nobody has it figured out. Nobody has it figured out. There's not some magic wand. There's not some special formula. Nobody has it figured out. Everybody's trying to figure it out in their own way. And I think the common thread that people get to — or should get to — is that we're still in the people business. No matter what business you're in, you're in the people business.

And it doesn't matter how great your idea is. It doesn't matter how much money you're going to make. If people can't understand it and people don't buy into it and they don't understand how to use it, it doesn't matter.

And so, our job as technologists, our job as business leaders is to make it easy to understand, to simplify the process, to make it easy for them to get to, for them to explain to their team. So, it trickles down. If we don't do that, it really doesn't matter. It's not going to go very far. And so, I think those are the common things people get to... It's hard. It is hard. Anything worth doing usually is. It has some hard part about it. Your idea can be brilliant, but implementation matters. Adoption matters. And how do you get that, right? It's not just talking to the C-suite. Of course, you need their buy-in. You need them to validate and adopt it themselves. But you got to get to the heart of the people in any organization. You got to go to every single level of that organization and make sure people are clear, that they're bought in, they understand it, and you're moving whatever roadblocks you have to to do it. You got to stay scrappy. You got to have grit. And, you know, if you really want to make it happen, you got to show the passion.

[00:12:35]Scott: Yeah. It's not just the technology or the, you know, the change. It's the human psychology of it, such an important feature and factor to solve for along the way. I want to talk about Rice. You graduated in 2010. So, the financial crisis was, you know, happening through your MBA experience.

[00:12:53]T. Canady: Yeah. I was in Atlanta. At the time, was buying a house in Texas during this crisis that you speak of. So, my… now he's my husband, we were married while we were in Atlanta. And we just knew we were coming back to Texas. Texas is home, and we knew we would be coming back at some point in time. And we, kind of, made the decision that, “Now was the time to come back.”

But it took us about two-plus years to find the space we wanted to land. And during that time, I did look at other MBA programs. Texas is very fortunate to have some stellar programming, right? I can name a few, and I will not. However, Rice stood out for me for a number of different reasons.

One is the legacy. Rice, the name speaks for itself. You know, you have a lot of pride when you speak about the alumni that have come from Rice, the statue of the organization itself, how it always competes on every level, particularly academically.

I almost went to Rice undergrad, is what people don't know. Almost went to Rice undergrad. I came for an athletic visit. I felt like this was my time to get that opportunity to come. The alumni and the recruiting staff were so warm. They were so inviting. They really made me feel at home. It was one of the few programs, particularly at the time, that as a working professional, I didn't have to do it online. I could be on the beautiful campus, which means that I could connect more deeply with my colleagues.

The rigor that it takes to get a Rice MBA, right? I did not want something that was not going to make me deep-think or that was not going to have me connect in the classroom in a way that I was having just as much learning from my peers as I did from my teachers.

And so, when I thought about all of that — the brand, the connection, the network, the rigor — it was an easy choice, actually.

[00:14:42]Scott: I think this is such an important topic, because I think there's a lot of discussion about how to engage alumni. And there's a subset of people who go get MBAs, and they pay their tuition, and they get their piece of paper, and they, kind of, move on. I like to say, like you, you get half the value of your MBA on graduation day and you spend the rest of your life chasing the other half. And I think that you're a representation of that.

I want to talk about your entrepreneurial experience. I've got a couple of company names in front of me that you founded: BlackBoxx, ThinkPower. Probably missing some. Like, talk me through the entrepreneurial experience.

[00:15:17]T. Canady: So, let's start with, kind of, why. I think, growing up, you know, we talked about, what did you have around you or what made you decide chemical engineering or to do these different paths? I saw entrepreneurship around me. It was not necessarily successful entrepreneurship, but I did see entrepreneurship. And I saw the reward of building something your own. Even if it didn't always net the result that you were hoping for, even if it didn't lead to insane riches, I saw the satisfaction of building something with your own hands, right? Whether it was a lawn service or a dealership or a retail store.

And that fire is just something special, when you see someone giving all to build something new and take that chance and go out there and bet on themselves. I think that fire was fueled from a young age when I saw it. And I thought, you know, “I wish I could help them do this more successfully.” And as I got older, I was able to contribute to several friends and family members’ business to help them think through things to help their business be more successful.

So, of course, you know, my husband and I, we were both working full time, but we decided our first business was actually a pressure washing business. Another little known fact. Imagine me in a big yellow wetsuit. I did that. I washed apartment buildings when I had to. But it was, you know, his dream, right? It was his dream. He wanted to do this for many different reasons. And so, I was on the side, doing all the things to make it happen. It didn't matter if it was the marketing, the sales, the customer acquisition. It didn't matter. Whatever it took, that's what we were doing.

And so, we did that for several years, had lots of people coming to us asking how to build business. And then, that ended up going into a business consulting firm about execution, management consulting, all the things that are required to build a business.

And then, you know, we did go back and forth a bit, where we would have people ask for us to come in and work at their company, basically, like a loaned leader, a loaned executive in some of these companies. And so, we did that. And so, it was a lot of mix. Entrepreneurship for us hasn't been this straight path where you just run with this one business. It's been, “Take this learning, apply it to a new business, help other people build business with it, go work back in corporate for a little bit, and, you know, use those skills to help build organizations and entities within those businesses.” It definitely hasn't been a straight path, but it's been a very rewarding one, because we have still been able to have impact.

I think sometimes we put these blinders on, like, “I'm going to be an entrepreneur. That's the only thing I'm going to do.” But I think when you have a greater purpose, you realize that you can do it both ways. It's just timing of what makes sense to do what. And so, I've had no problem going back and forth or, you know, running… letting this business run itself. It's just about what do you want your focus to be?

And I think another thing that has come as I, again, explore entrepreneurship, and keeping that lasting legacy, is that it's just that. You go from wanting a job, and then I thought I wanted a career. But then, what I've come to realize is that I really just wanted legacy. Sometimes, that's built by how many different organizations you can touch to make them better. How can you grow business? How can you plant seeds of innovation and growth in other places to see other businesses thrive? Like, what is it that you want your legacy to be? And don't bottle that up. You know, you can be an intrapreneur, which I've done that as well. You can, you know, step back outside when it makes sense for you. But don't, you know, sacrifice yourself because you just have to have this name title. And that goes with corporate as well. Just because you want to be, you know, a certain level or a certain title, you do your best work where you are and then it will figure itself out. And if that means you step aside and grow something else, then you should be free to do that. You should understand where your talents are best utilized for that point in time and not, you know, suffer or suffocate yourself because you can't get something out to the world that you really want to get out.

[00:19:28]Scott: For, kind of, the aspiring entrepreneur out there, you, kind of, have to opt into an entrepreneurial experience in some ways, and there's some, you know, camps that, sort of, say, like, entrepreneurs are, kind of, born, that you have to have, you know, a specific personality or a specific whatever, and then there's a lot of entrepreneurship that can be learned. And I love this intrapreneurship, entrepreneurship kind of thing. It's like, it's like a dissatisfaction with how the world runs. And so, curious to know, like, advice that you would give to aspiring entrepreneurs or people that want to have more of that impact. How do you self-select in or identify, what are some of the characteristics?

[00:20:09]T. Canady: Yeah. For me, I'll say greatest success has come when I was really clear on the purpose behind it. Not always the product being the most crystal clear, not always the market being the most crystal clear, because I think that evolves over time. And I think sometimes it's even greater than you expected. Sometimes we limit ourselves on the reach we think we can have. But being really clear on the purpose, like, what do I intend to do, what is the job that needs to be done here, and how do I see this evolving, right? And just, kind of, think through just, like, three years, five years on what you would like to see happen.

I think my biggest issue, if I can call it that, was not dreaming big enough. And so, I often ask myself, “Well, why don't you go do that? Like, what's stopping you, really stopping you from going to do this idea that you have?” You can start these things wherever you are. Whatever your employment status is, you can start that thing.

What you have to be clear on, again, is the purpose. And then, start to craft something. Get it out there in the world. Trial it out, right? Don't make too many assumptions. But once you understand the purpose, the job to be done, and you have an idea of the product, start testing it. Start seeing who that audience might be. Start exploring a little bit. Ask questions. Get it out to people. Start with friendlies, right, to see what that looks like.

And then, be prepared, because it's not, it's not easy. It's not for the fainted heart. And if you decide that you want to jump into it, you do need to be, you know, somewhat financially prepared. I think sometimes we overdo it, right? And we think, “I got to have 10 years of savings.” Well, maybe not 10 years, but, you know, you do need to be prepared, though, if you want to buy a house, right? This may not be the time. So, there's definitely sacrifices that need to be made. You need to make sure you have accountability partners. You need to make sure that your significant others are on board.

Those are some of the things to just prepare yourself in the immediate for entrepreneurship. Is this something you're willing to sacrifice for? Are these things, you know, as Dave Ramsey says, are these things you're willing to go beans and rice for, if it took that? Or, is it superficial? Because a lot of times, if it is something that is purpose-driven, you are willing to do that. You are willing to make those sacrifices. You're willing to do the things, the hard things. You're less likely to give up because of some dissatisfaction somewhere. So, really center yourself around, what is that thing I feel like I have to get out there? Who are going to be the people that help me to just be accountable? They may not be the people that know everything about your product, but they may be the people that know you deeply enough to know why you're driving to do this and to keep you accountable to your purpose — not just to the business, but to your purpose.

[00:23:03]Scott: Entrepreneurship isn't a vanity project. It's like a lifestyle, right?

[00:23:07]T. Canady: It's not a vanity project. You know, we hear all the… especially now with tech and everything, we hear all these success stories and people going, you know, IPO and all these fabulous things. And the 12-year overnight success story, it's more likely the scenario, right, where people have been grinding in their garage for so many years because they were so passionate about this theme. And then, look at how many of them started with this one product. They ended up being something totally different. But what was the thing that was the same? It was the passion. It was the purpose. They had an intention. And it may have evolved a bit, but that intention, that purpose usually remains pretty pure and pretty much to the core, significantly similar, I'll say.

[00:23:54]Scott: Yeah, have clarity of the “why” and build from there.

[00:23:57]T. Canady: Yeah. What, what is your “why?” Because if you're just out here doing it, it's not going to last long.

[00:24:03]Scott: Yeah, and it's tough enough you'll be completely miserable and lose yourself along the way.

[00:24:09]T. Canady: And I was doing entrepreneurship when I did the Rice MBA program. So, I really had to be committed because I didn't have anybody footing the bill for that, right? So, it was like all-in committed to getting what I needed to know in order to scale, in order to connect, you know, more deeply. And regardless of which business, you know, or which time, just what do I need to get here?

[00:24:35]Scott: Comparing and contrasting your career pre-Rice experience, post-Rice experience, is there anything that stands out that came through from that Rice experience that is now folded into your approach, things, or experiences, or moments, or connections, part of the network, whatever that contributed to what you're working on now?

[00:24:58]T. Canady: I feel like Rice validated my insanity. Like, this wild idea that I could do these crazy, crazy things, right? I think, before, you know, the possibility was stronger that I was going after particular roles, particular titles, and things like that. And the MBA would be a feather in my hat to help me get that or be validated in some kind of way, even though I had the experience.

I think what ends up happening on the other side is that I became more rooted in who I really am and what I really aspire to be and less apologetic about that, because I had a community of people that, you know, sometimes are just as crazy as I, or at least were validating, saying, “No, you should do that. You're this enough. You're that enough. I would buy that. I would do that. I believe in you.” Whatever it is you need your tribe, right?

And so, I think with Rice, it's definitely one of, you know, those tribes that has helped to validate that crazy a little bit. And then, when you have professors that are willing to sit down and talk you through any points that you may be having concerns with, whether it's marketing, whether it's pricing, whether it's selling, and you're sitting in classes, like, with the late great Al Napier, who's telling you to be rooted in your vision and what you want your legacy to be when you're 70, 80 years old, and making you think about that now as a 20, 30-year-old somebody, and thinking about, “Well, what do I want to be said when I'm 90, when I'm 80? And how do I get to that?” When you have other professors who have been successful entrepreneurs coming back and talking through you about, not just the sunshiny parts, but the hard parts, and willing to sit down again at any time to talk you through whatever it is you need to talk through, it makes you a better person. It makes you a more willing entrepreneur.

I think if you already have that itch, it makes you feel like it's even more possible and that you're not alone doing it. Because I think, as entrepreneurs, so many times you feel like you're on an island, right? And you feel like you have to do everything on your own. And I've certainly been that. And I've certainly done that. But now, I'm much more inclined to pick up a phone, to send a text, whatever it is to get an answer, to get an idea, whatever it is to just make a connection, whatever it is I need at that time. I feel like I'm much more willing to do that because of that community.

[00:27:39]Scott: A bit of what you're describing, I like to say, kind of, living a life that echoes. In the spirit of that, like, reverberation, we've been talking a lot about the past. I want to talk a little bit about the here and now. Like, tell us a bit about what you're doing, what you're working on. Like, what's on the horizon?

[00:27:55]T. Canady: Yes. So, right now, I'm completely committed to legacy-building. It's a little early. Some people might say that. But I feel like it starts… like, you have to be very intentional about that. So, every project that I'm taking on right now has to have elements of leaving a legacy for, not only my family, but for other families. And so, it's about leaving those nuggets of innovation and helping people to build their business, whether it's a small one or a large one. It doesn't matter. To me, it's really about fueling that entrepreneurial fire inside and outside of corporate.

For my family, you know, what does that look like, as I sow seeds into my children, into my two girls, right? What does that look like? As I restart a passion project, I like to say, that's all about just that — empowering entrepreneurs, building brands, helping people to connect more deeply, and just sharing pure joy. Those are the types of things I'm focused on right now.

[00:29:02]Scott: Thank you for sharing your spirit of rebellion and entrepreneurship and all these things. It's so awesome. Been an inspirational conversation. Any last thoughts that you would like to, kind of, share or maybe said another way, advice you would give or people considering a Rice experience, however you want to shape it?

[00:29:19]T. Canady: Do it. Don't blink, you know. And I was going to tell you this. When I started the process, I did look at, you know, other organizations, but when I actually applied, I only applied to Rice. Like, it was that clear to me. So, what would I have done? I don't know. But I was so committed and so sure about my choice. It was the only place I actually applied to. That's how strongly I felt about it. And I think it was absolutely the best choice, the right choice.

For those aspiring entrepreneurs, I say, go for it. You know, start somewhere. Start now. Don't wait. Dream bigger. Nobody's coming to save us, you know. Like you've got to start yourself. Show the proof. Be the proof. And just go for it. Like, just live your biggest, loudest life possible, at least on paper, right? Like, live that life that you wrote down. What is important to you? And live that life.

[00:30:16]Scott: Thank you for being awesome. Thank you for being on the show. It was a real privilege.

[00:30:20]T. Canady: My pleasure. Thank you, Scott.

[00:30:23]Outro: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Scott Gale, and Maya Pomroy.