[00:00]Maya: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Executive MBA Mindy Smith wouldn't call herself a powerhouse, but rather, someone who seeks out, embraces, and thrives on taking on a challenge. The Shell marketing executive talks with us about her rise in the fast-paced industry, which all started by a risk she took back in college, by sneaking into her very first job interview.

Not only did it pay off, but instilled the kind of courage and gumption carrying her to where she is today, not only professionally, but personally. She tells us about her treasured time at Rice Business, the deep friendships made, the life lessons learned, and how the tremendous opportunity changed her perspective on just about everything.

Welcome, Mindy.

[00:57]Mindy: Thank you. Happy to be here.

[00:59]Maya: Well, we're thrilled to have you. You have a really fascinating pivot story, and I cannot wait to hear all about that. You are currently the Global Brand Strategy and Marketing Performance Manager at Shell's Mobility Business. But I hear that there's a change coming up that we'll also discuss, that your role is changing. So, you've built a distinguished career around consumer products and, also, now, in the energy sector, you've had opportunities to work at Kraft and at Coca-Cola and now at Shell. Wow. Those, I mean, that's, kind of, like, night and day.

[01:41]Mindy: You know what? It's not as different as many people will think, because to clarify, you know, Shell, like, many of the big energy companies, many divisions, and I am in what they call their downstream division. And what I have always been involved in, in my career at Shell, are the consumer-facing products, right? Whether it's the fuel at our sites or Pennzoil motor oil. So, those are still consumer-facing goods. And a lot of the strategies and the things that we do are very similar. In fact, that's why Shell hired me away from the CPG side, because they wanted people who had that CPG experience years ago for their consumer products.

[02:24]Maya: Well, they recognized, you know, in order to market those sorts of things, you need people that have that competitive advantage. So, where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Houston?

[02:34]Mindy: You know what? I actually grew up just outside of Austin in a little town called Pflugerville.

[02:40]Maya: I'm familiar. We moved here from Austin. So, I know exactly where Pflugerville…it was, it has just exploded, most recently.

[02:47]Mindy: Well, not to get into how old I am, but yeah, I was there when it was pretty much just, you know, one high school, one intermediate school and they had two elementary schools. And yeah, it's huge now when I go back.

[03:02]Maya: So, grew up in Pflugerville. Where'd you go to college?

[03:07]Mindy: So, I went to University of Texas undergrad.

[03:10]Maya: Woot-woot!

[03:10]Mindy: So, I actually went to high school here in Houston. We moved. And then I got back to Austin as soon as I could and graduated from UT. And while I was at UT, I worked a lot. I did a lot of crazy jobs. So, if any of you were in Austin, at that time, they might remember me on the Randall's TV commercials. I dressed up as a big present for a UPS campaign. So, yeah, I've done a lot of weird jobs, but it was great experience with all of them.

[03:39]Maya: Well, those are all marketing jobs and brand strategy jobs.

[03:44]Mindy: Absolutely.

[03:45]Maya: I mean, if you really, kind of, think about it, those are all interconnected. So, when did you decide that this is the field that really spoke to you?

[03:52]Mindy: You know, when I look back and people ask me about how I planned my career and things like that, I'm about to say something that most people, especially career coaches, might roll their eyes at. I didn't have a plan. You know what? When I was 21 and I was about to graduate, I think I had $5 in my checking account. I was applying for anything and everything. I just wanted a job. And I had school loans that I had to start paying off immediately when I graduated. So, for me, obviously, I wasn't applying for, you know, engineering roles or anything like that, but I was a liberal arts major undergrad, and I was sneaking into the business school in applications. And I managed to get quite a few. And a lot of the jobs that I held during college helped get me the interviews. And that's actually how Kraft Foods hired me.

True story. It's a great interview story because I still remember, his name was Reggie, the guy that interviewed me. And he looked at me and he didn't realize I was the only non-business major he was interviewing that day. And this is on the UT campus. And he looked, he said, “Wait a minute, you're a history major. What are you doing here?” And I said, you know, “Well, I think I'm a great fit for this role.” And he said, “Why would I even talk to you when I have a whole string of business majors right behind you today that actually have studied business?” I said, “Okay, how many of them have actually been in business for the past, you know, four years? How many of them can tell you what an SKU is? How many of them have placed orders? How many of them can tell you what inventory is like in a retail store? How many of them can explain to you…” you know. And that immediately caught his attention. So, then, we had a discussion, and he ended up giving me the job that they had in Dallas.

[05:42]Maya: Yeah, I think Reggie made the right choice that day. And think about that, you know, if you're just starting out, to have the boldness to say all of those things in an interview.

[05:55]Mindy: Yes, I was desperate.

[05:58]Maya: Desperation brings out this force in everyone, I think, that it's like, “I need this and I'm going to get it,” you know. It's that will.

[06:07]Mindy: And you know what? That was, really, my first professional lesson, though. It really was, because up until then, I was very timid and shy about… I would not normally have been that bold and aggressive, but I felt challenged. I really thought he might kick me out of the interview and with my back against the wall. And I remember walking out and thinking, “You know what? If you're going to want to get into the business world, you have to be more assertive. You have to say what you think.” Yes, you have to do it in the right way, but if I had cowered, I think he would have just said, “Interview over,” and, “Thank you, but, you know, we want business majors.” I'm pretty sure that's how it would have gone.

[06:51]Maya: Well, I can probably tell you, just a hunch here, that I don't think any other applicant did what you did in that business school. So, what years were you at Kraft? I'm just curious. In terms of what their products were at the time, that’s…

[07:05]Mindy: Yeah, that was before the big merger with Heinz, but it was right as they were merging with Nabisco in the late ‘90s. So, at that time, they had everything from Kraft salad dressing, cheese, Oscar Mayer. We inherited the Nabisco line, so we had Nabisco products like crackers and things like that.

[07:25]Maya: The Keebler elves.

[07:27]Mindy: Yeah, we had Starbucks coffee, the grocery line, at the time. I remember that was a big intro. You know, at that time, when I was doing planograms and calling on some of the big grocery store accounts, it was so big, there were, usually, two or three of us calling on Kroger or-

[07:49]Maya: Randalls.

[07:49]Mindy: … Randalls’ Tom Thumb, as it was that time. That was when they had a lot more stores, too. Because they just had so many products, and one person, really, couldn't do it all for grocery stores of that size, and H-E-B especially. That's when I lived in San Antonio and I was actually in house for H-E-B, doing their planograms and data analysis on their products.

[08:09]Maya: So, this was before H-E-B really became a household name, right? Like, that was about the same time when H-E-B was growing.

[08:19]Mindy: They were growing. They were still a pretty big powerhouse. Even back then, H-E-B was one of the top 10 customers for Kraft, just in the volume of their stores. And they had just started to expand into Mexico. They were very technologically savvy with how they did their stores and their product selections. They were doing similarly to Walmart at the time.

[08:43]Maya: That's what I was gonna say, Walmart, where they figured out how to scan and, you know, like, really shave off a bunch of time. There was a case study in business school at Rice that we did during my EMBA experience, specifically about Walmart and why they had that edge, is because they figured out how to scan things. And, like, literally, they would just put truck next to truck, like, back-to-back, and they would just, you know, shuffle things in and out. And it was fascinating to read about them.

[09:10]Mindy: Well, I was doing more of the planograms and it’s still fascinating to me because, at that time, I mean, pretty much it's the standard now, but back then, you know, I'm talking late ‘90s, early 2000s here, every store had store-specific planograms. And if you don't know what a planogram is, I'm talking about the shelving and how the products or what products are laid out, how many facings they get, that sort of thing. And there's a lot of strategy and thought that goes into it. And what Walmart and H-E-B and, I think, maybe two others in the country at the time, were doing, they had the software where you could import the demographic data within a certain radius of what that store, you know, where it was located, and based on those different demographics and other stores that had similar demographics or similar, you know, when I say demographics, that's everything from income, occupation…

[10:05]Maya: Well, the products that sold, the highest sellers and how to merchandise them, and…

[10:08]Mindy: We would start by importing, you know, what were the top sellers for those types of profiles? And then we'd adjust based on the estimated sales for a like-for-like store. And, you know, a perfect example of that, I always still laugh. I was very naive back then, you know. I thought of grocery stores from my experience growing up, and when we were going into Mexico and along the border, I remember there were certain products, that I remember they'd have a whole aisle of just canned beans, I kid you not. And, you know, in most grocery stores, they might've had maybe eight feet. And I was like, “Why do we have a whole aisle?” And then people would explain, you know.

[10:46]Maya: Price per square foot, it makes sense. This is what sells.

[10:49]Mindy: Right. Well, in the non-perishable things, and this is what they like, because it's very filling. You know, there were all these reasons and insights that went behind those decisions.

[10:59]Maya: Well, and even now, when you walk into a Starbucks anywhere around the world, they're completely different. They're really, really tailored. You know, whenever we're traveling and I’m with my kids, they're just like, “Wait, they have, like, real cups here?” I'm like, well, actually all those real cups, that's one of the strategies that they're bringing to the U.S. now. Under their leadership and their transition, you really do need to tailor it to the consumer. And I don't think that a lot of people think about that, because usually here for us, an example, like Target or Walmart, you walk in and they pretty much are the same. And they're the same for a reason because it's the same demographics, right?

[11:36]Mindy: Yeah.

[11:39]Maya: And then you go to a different, you know, part of the country or a different part of the world, and I mean, even Boston, you know, I walked into a Target and I was like, “I don't understand. I don't know where anything is. This is nothing like Houston.” And I'm not going to be able to find, you know, like, the cotton balls that I'm looking for. So, it's fascinating. It's human psychology, as well.

[11:58]Mindy: Oh, well, I'll give you another one. You know, in my past role in London, 2019 to 2021, that was right during the pandemic, and I was the global customer experience manager for all of our markets with retail sites.

[12:14]Maya: This is at Shell? This is when you're already at shell?

[12:17]Mindy: Yes.

[12:18]Maya: Okay.

[12:18]Mindy: And one of the programs I ran was our voice of the customer program, which is direct customer feedback. And we would get that in different ways, whether it was emails or on site, with QR codes, where customers could scan and give direct feedbacks. We had some of the kiosks in the stores, like, maybe you've seen in the airports with the smiley faces or the unhappy faces, you know, “how was your visit.” But we would collect all that data. And the ones that used email and app or QR code, we had open text boxes for them to specifically tell us, you know, if they said something went really well, “Tell us what went well. If something did not, tell us why. Help us improve.” And that sort of direct feedback led to a lot of interesting things during the pandemic.

So, during COVID, at our retail sites, you know, they were considered essential, obviously, because you still had to fuel emergency vehicles and, you know, people who were considered important essential workers, things like that. A lot of people started going to our sites even to buy toilet paper and bottled water. And, you know, there were things that we were trying to do. And at the same time, we were trying to have care for our, we call them service champions at our sites, the workers at our sites, because they're going through this pandemic, just like everybody else. And how can we also take care of them at the same time?

And one of the first data sources I went to internally was our voice of the customer feedback. And I could filter specifically on anything around health and safety, COVID, anywhere they mentioned at a site something that was good or bad, so I can use that analysis to, kind of, see what the key touch points or the areas that they were feeling not happy about at our sites. And it was quickly easy to identify, globally, there were consistencies with things that customers wanted to see at our sites. And through that, I developed an entire campaign that I called “Let's Stay Safe,” where we had communication materials at our site. And we trained the service champions and made sure that they knew what they needed to do to keep things clean and what were the key areas that customers focused on — pump handles, door handles. Was the service champion wearing his mask properly? Was there availability of hand sanitizer?

And it's really, you know, we talk about business needs and, you know, even in MBA school, we did a lot of business cases around companies. I remember that specifically one around Unilever, when they were trying to expand into Asia, with some of their shaving products. And they hadn't, in many ways, done as much insight, I guess, digging, as they could have done, to understand that, you know, the instances of shaving were different in Asia than it was in other… I don't know if you all did that one or not.

[15:14]Maya: We did.

[15:15]Mindy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the thing that I love, is taking the direct feedback from customers and then using that to make their experiences better. And that's really what the majority of the roles I've had in the past 10 years has been about.

[15:31]Maya: So, you started at Kraft, and then I know we skipped over to Shell, but let's talk about Coca-Cola. So, tell me about your time there and what the progression was, in terms of why you chose to make a change.

[15:43]Mindy: You know what? It was very simple. They recruited me.

[15:47]Maya: I had a suspicion. I had a suspicion.

[15:49]Mindy: So, I'm one of those people. If I like what I do and I feel I'm being challenged and I can deliver value and drive great things, I'm happy. And I had gotten to a point, with Kraft, I was on a great career progression. In fact, they were just about to move me to Tampa, Florida to call on Publix for Kraft. And I still remember that day, the plane landed. I was going to go look at housing and where I wanted to live and things like that. And when I landed, I had a voicemail from the headhunter, saying that they really wanted to talk to me. And that's, kind of, how it went down. I wasn't actually looking, but Coca-Cola gave me an opportunity to, one, not have to move every 12 months; two, it also gave me an opportunity, the role that they were interested in me for was, kind of, a half-marketing, half-insights kind of role. And my experience at Kraft in that role that I mentioned at H-E-B really spurred my interest in customer insights and doing more customer-focused things. It was great.

And for me, doing that versus going to another sales role, which is what that Publix role would have been, and admittedly, not having to move, that sold me on it. It was a great offer. So, I jumped ship and started at Coke. And, you know, it's one of those things. It's like a lot of things in life. It's not the easiest thing to do, but if you explain it and they understand your reasoning, it is what it is.

[17:28]Maya: Yeah. Well, and that, and, you also, you want career progression and you want to do the things that inspire you and motivate you. And that's part of leadership as well, is to say, “You know what? Like, I need to do this for myself.” And those are leadership qualities of making those hard decisions, but knowing that they're right for you.

[17:48]Mindy: Absolutely.

[17:49]Maya: So, how long were you at Coke?

[17:52]Mindy: I was only there for a year.

[17:53]Maya: Oh! Let me guess, were you recruited again for Shell?

[18:02]Mindy: Well, you know, that was a good lesson as well. You know, they had recruited me away from Kraft Foods. Had a really great year, had a wonderful boss, worked with great people who are still friends. Then, Coca-Cola did massive layoffs, and I was one of them. I still remember walking in with everyone, and we all got laid off together, and we all went out, and had drinks and had a really rough the next morning together.

[18:30]Maya: I hope you didn't have anything mixed with Coke. Sorry! It's like, “I'm gonna have that with Pepsi. Thank you.”

[18:40]Mindy: You know what? I'm still very loyal to them, and I'm still very loyal to Kraft. I still, even if it's not on sale, because both of those companies, even Coca-Cola, look, what they did, they did it to everyone together and it was a decision that came from way above, not even the people that I work directly with. Yes, it hurt the first month or two, but I got over it. And you know what? That was another thing. That goes back to that cliche saying about, sometimes, the lessons that hit the hardest are the ones that you grow the most from. And that was one of those. Because otherwise, I wouldn't have gone to Shell. And yes, Shell had reached out to me. In fact, I still remember. It was the next morning, not when I got home that evening, admittedly, after the drinks. I remember the next morning I woke up and I had five voicemails, and word had already gotten out amongst all the big recruiting firms about what Coca-Cola had done. And I already had a lot of messages with people wanting to talk to me, and one of them was Shell.

[19:41]Maya: So, tell me why you chose Shell.

[19:44]Mindy: A couple of different reasons. And it's funny, I've done some coaching and onboarding at Rice, and I'm a mentor, even in my company, and I get the question a lot about, why would you, you know, CPG, isn't that more exciting for a marketer than, you know…

[19:58]Maya: Consumer products, right? CPG, for those that don't know, CPG.

[20:01]Mindy: Yeah. And that was a critical point for me, a pivot, because, yes, if I had followed on the, kind of, the straight line path with consumer packaged goods, I'll say it out.

[20:13]Maya: Sorry, consumer-packaged goods. I was totally… clearly, I'm not in that industry.

[20:19]Mindy: Yeah, we have a lot of acronyms and we love them. So, I could have done that, and that would have been the easy path.

[20:25]Maya: But you don't want easy.

[20:27]Mindy: Well, you know, for me, it was more about learning a new industry. I also liked the fact that, quite honestly, Shell headquarters was here in Houston, their headquarters for North America. So, you could actually move around and work with…and even if you didn't actually, it wasn't in your specific line of business, you could learn a lot, just from being at a big hub like that. And that was something that I hadn't had a whole lot of and I missed when I had been with Kraft and Coca-Cola because as I moved around…In fact, I was one of the first ones working out of my house when I worked for Kraft in the late ‘90s, early 2000s. And I absolutely hated it. I felt like I didn't see people.

[21:14]Maya: Yeah. It's very isolating. What year did you start at Shell?

[21:17]Mindy: I started at Shell in 2003, so 21 years ago.

[21:22]Maya: And so, it was while you were at Shell that you decided to pursue your MBA. What was the catalyst? What made you decide that this is what you wanted to do? Because it seems like you were on a really nice little, you know, rise up in the industry.

[21:40]Mindy: That's a great question. That's another good lesson or point, because absolutely, I even had, at the time, my own VP, when I asked for approval to go back to school, because, of course, it was asking a lot in terms of time and things like that. And I was trying to also get some sponsorship from them to help me. And he basically said at the time, he's like, “You don't need this. Why?” And I told them, I said, “Well, why not? Wouldn't you want someone who has gone and learned more and had external perspectives and maybe learned what other industries do with similar challenges and business dynamics?”

[22:21]Maya: Personally and professionally, you want to increase your value.

[22:24]Mindy: Right, absolutely. And for me, it was almost a way to prove myself also, because as I moved up in Shell, I was pretty much working with people who had already gotten their MBAs in their 20s. And especially, a couple times, when people would ask me about where I went and what I did, they were always just floored that I was a history major. And I almost felt sometimes also that there were times when I would be in meetings and somebody would say something, and admittedly, because I hadn't been a business undergraduate, I did not know. You know, there were things, classes I didn't take. So, for me, I wanted to learn. 

I mean, on-the-job training is always the best training, in my opinion, but the value I got from my MBA and the things I learned, and even now, as a team lead, you know, I've been managing global teams where my director courts are spread everywhere in different time zones, and you have different cultures and you have different ways that people think, the ways that people like to hear about development and opportunities for improvement when you have your regular reviews, business reviews, their performance and that sort of thing. You know, I still remember talking to classmates in some of our management classes, hearing how people, even then, address some of those challenges. And I use them. I use them, even now.

[23:47]Maya: Yeah. Well, it's something that lasts forever.

[23:50]Mindy: Absolutely.

[23:50]Maya: It's an investment, that you get your return on investment for the rest of your life.

[23:55]Mindy: Absolutely.

[23:57]Maya: So, you asked if you could go and do this, and you beat them down to where they were like, “Okay. All right, Mindy.” Because I gather that you're one of those people that, you know, you get what you want. And it's refreshing to talk to somebody like that. It is also something that I've noticed with the MBAs that I talked to. It's this similar thread of, “I'm not taking no for an answer, and this is what I need and this is what I want. I'm going to go after it. And you can either say yes or no, but it doesn't really matter. I'm going to go do it.”

[24:26]Mindy: Yeah, absolutely. It's funny because you have to be careful with that. I was recently told by a VP in Europe that his nickname for me was the steamroller. Now, we get along.

[24:42]Maya: Oh, it’s a compliment.

[24:43]Mindy: He meant it as an endearment, I'm sure. You know, it was good feedback to get. And that goes back to what I was saying earlier about managing a team. And sometimes, you have to have those difficult conversations. And I actually appreciate the fact that his perception, whether it was real or not, he obviously, kind of, saw. And I did ask. I said, “Oh, well, I know I can be quite blunt and I'm famous for not having a filter at times. You know, help me understand more and how I can improve.” And I said it in a way that he didn't think I was, “What, you're calling me a steamroller, you know, a bull in a china shop? What do you mean by that?” But… and he just said, he goes, “You know, sometimes,” and it was interesting, “we've been going through a reorganization, a big one, globally, in our line of business. And all of us, myself included, we're fighting for our direct reports. We want to make sure they lay in good roles and that they don't leave the company, you know.” And I have a rockstar team. So, I've been really working to make sure that they have roles. So, yes, I've been a steamroller the last two months because I'm getting in these management meetings where we're talking about talent. And you're darn right, I'm going to step up and stand up for them. And yes, I will. And I'm not going to back down. And I might be a steamroller, but you know what? The end result is, especially when it comes to people, no regrets.

[26:08]Maya: Well, that, and it makes the organization stronger, whether… because they don't have those day-to-day interactions. They're not part of your team. And they don't see the magic every day.

[26:17]Mindy: Correct. Well, and that's another lesson right there, too, that I've been talking to my team about, since I've heard that of, you know what? No matter where everyone ends up, make sure that even people outside your own little bubble, your own little team, understands and, at least, hears about the great work that you do.

And it's not about necessarily running around, you know, blowing your own horn. It's really making sure that, whether it's through your manager or whether you having a coffee when you run into someone, you know, in the break room, setting up time and making the opportunity, that they know who you are. And I've always had a formula. I mean, even 20 years ago, when I had an actual office, I had on my board, the formula for success in a big company. And it was 60% your network, 20% actual work, and 20% perception and perceived work.

And I tell you, you know, one of the things with what's been going on lately, I've been telling people I might change my formula and put 50% network and 50% perception, because absolutely, in a time like this, where people who might not know you are making decisions about your future with the company, not only the network but the perception is big. So, more important than ever in times like this, where it pays off.

[27:42]Maya: Yes. And we are going through transitionary times. And you are actually going to be moving into a new role. Can you tell us about that? That, like I said, teased it at the beginning. So, tell me about your new role at Shell.

[27:58]Mindy: Yes. So, I am now going to… I will still be global, so I will still be having my 5:00 a.m. calls every day and my calls with Asia in the evening. But I will be the global insights and data analytics manager for Shell's Mobility business. So, kind of, staying in the same line of business, but getting back to what I said earlier about loving customer insights and data and understanding how other companies successfully manage challenges and meet customer expectations. So, it's right up my alley. I'm very excited about that.

[28:32]Maya: So, can you expand a little bit more on what you're going to be doing? Because it's a global role and you've been in a global role for quite some time. And, you know, as we mentioned earlier, it's very different, depending on the demographics in the country and, you know, all of these different things. So, tell me more.

[28:48]Mindy: Yeah. So, I will have a team of insights managers that are focused in different regions. You know, I guess I should say the mobility business. We have over 47,000 retail sites, fuel stations, globally.

[29:03]Maya: So, mobility business means gas stations. Sorry, I'm done.

[29:07]Mindy: Correct. Oh, no, no, no. Well, you know what I like to say when people ask what I do? I always tell them, I give people gas.

[29:14]Maya: And you're a steamroller, right?

[29:16]Mindy: Yeah, I'm a steamroller who gives people gas.

[29:20]Maya: That’s the best quote that I've ever heard.

[29:24]Mindy: But yeah, so, it's in over 80 countries, too. So, you're absolutely right, things are different depending on, you know, which country it is and our business model there. We have different business models as well. But so, I will be managing a team of people and we will be using global data from different sources, as well as data that might be more localized, right? There's data that you can get in each market that can help that market make business decisions. And that's everything from marketers will recognize some of these, but, you know, brand share preference, overall customer satisfaction.

[30:04]Maya: That one, I know.

[30:05]Mindy: Yes, yes, yes. NPS is another big one that a lot of people focus on. I have opinions on that. Happy to share them over a drink some time.

[30:12]Maya: Wait, wait. What is NPS? What is that?

[30:15]Mindy: Net promoter score. A lot of retailers still do that. But personally, I feel, and this is controversial, I can already hear some people reaching out to me if they hear me say this. I've always felt that that one is not as crucial as, like, an overall satisfaction score from customers. And there are different ways to approach it as well, whether it's, you know, a B2C, a business to consumer, or a B2B, right? And so, you know, what I'll be doing includes B2C and B2B for our lubricants and our mobility groups. So, lots of data, lots of insights.

[30:54]Maya: How is Shell competing with things like Buc-ee's?

[30:58]Mindy: Oh, my gosh. Okay, oof, I have to tell you, I love nothing more than when people come to Houston, my colleagues, who have never been to a Buc-ee's or heard of it.

[31:10]Maya: There's a whole Instagram site of this Italian guy who has this American wife, and she brings him to Buc-ee's.

[31:13]Mindy: Yes, yes. I've shared that and I've shared a few other videos. Because here's the thing, you know, and I've said this for a long time. At one point, when I was in London back in 2019, in that role, I was working on a project we called Site of the Future, where it was, really, what do our future retail sites using digital technology and AI and modernizing the way it's laid out, the signage and all this other stuff. And I remember we were building our first one in Thailand at the time, and I was there, and we were talking about customer experience and the way the site was laid out. And they thought it was a big site. And admittedly, it was a big site, especially for us.

[31:55]Maya: For Thailand.

[31:55]Mindy: For Thailand. And so, I showed them a Buc-ee's video and they were… and the other thing I drove home with them was, you know what? And Buc-ee's proves a couple of things that, sometimes, the larger companies struggle with is some of the basics, like keeping the toilets clean and keeping, again, the door handles clean and making sure that, you know, people say hello to customers and, you know, are friendly in their interactions and knowledgeable. And you go to a Buc-ee's and they just knock it all out of the park.

[32:28]Maya: Well, it's also retail. I mean, it's gas is, sort of, on the side. Like, you know, like…

[32:33]Mindy: It’s an experience. 

[32:35]Maya: Yes. And I will admit, I do not think that we have ever stopped at Buc-ee's to get gas. We stop at Buc-ee's to get stuff.

[32:45]Mindy: Well, I only get my gas at Shell, as well as my C-store items. So, yes, I just go there to observe.

[32:53]Maya: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And maybe, some, you know, roasted nuts on the side and some beef jerky, you know, you never know.

[32:59]Mindy: Beaver nuggets, yeah.

[33:00]Maya: And beaver nuggets.

[33:01]Mindy: But you gotta give them credit. They have created a brand that was really focused on the experience. They really have.

[33:11]Maya: Yes. And I've noticed that transition with Exxons and Texacos. I’m sorry I’m saying these words. And Valeros and Shell.

[33:18]Mindy: You were about to say Shell next, right?

[33:20]Maya: Shell. I mean, I was saving the best for last, Shell. But they have been transforming. And that, I've noticed, as a customer, that, you know, it's different and you can't stay in one place. You really do have to adapt. And every business, in order to survive, it's change or die, right? Is that the phrase?

[33:40]Mindy: Absolutely. And you know what? For us, it's evolving beyond traditional gas, right? You know, for us, and I've been very excited to be involved in global roles in markets where we have admittedly done this a little more, but we're doing a lot of great things here in the U.S. and Canada as well around sustainability and EV and technology as well. You know, it's an exciting time, but it's also a time where we're learning good and bad things.

I mean, you know, I just had a discussion recently because we have Shell Recharge, which is, you know, EV charging. And we have some amazing sites globally with EV. You know, we have sites here that have EV charging as well, and we're growing those. Global uniforms, which my team currently also manages. We had a big discussion around having specific uniforms for those EV sites, the sites that don't even have traditional fuel, like, right now, currently, in Europe, for example. And the decision that was made by the group, you know, and agreed to was white and I, kind of, laughed. I love white. I love clean. But I made the comment, you know, right now, we definitely need to keep it just at EV sites, because can you imagine a traditional fuel station and they're wearing white? That thing’s going to be so dirty by the end of the day.

[35:05]Maya: Well, yes.

[35:07]Mindy: You know, those are the kinds of things we think about. And things that, you know, as we're designing future sites, going back to that entire customer experience, and what are the things, and you're absolutely right, the evolving needs, because they are changing so quickly.

[35:21]Maya: Rapidly, yeah. So, let me ask you a bit more about Rice, because you recently won a Distinguished Alumni Volunteer Award. Congratulations!

[35:31]Mindy: Thank you.

[35:32]Maya: And you were at Rice, you know. You graduated in 2013. So, it's been a minute. I just wanted for you to share why you feel it's so important to continue to stay connected to Rice.

[35:45]Mindy: Rice was such an important part of my life. And as I mentioned earlier, I still take a lot of the learnings and use them daily in my work. And one of the things that I really appreciated about Rice was, going back to network, going back to hearing others’ perspectives and how they handle, and when I was there, I loved hearing from people who had already graduated. I still remember the first semester, that was the toughest for most of us. 

[36:18]Maya: Yes.

[36:19]Mindy: There were some times where I was just, you know.

[36:24]Maya: “I’m out. I can’t do this.”

[36:24]Mindy: Yeah, “am I going to do this?” And I remember, there was a Partio and a bunch of alums were there. And I was talking to one of them, and I was almost in tears. And I still remember why. I think I had the accounting midterm coming up and I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” And I was just, and I was like, “I don't… you know, maybe this is it.” You know, for me, I just… and quite honestly, I had an amazing class of just very impressive people. And I, kind of, I did not sense that they were struggling as much as I was.

[36:59]Maya: Everybody feels that way.

[37:00]Mindy: Yes, and then you find out everybody does. And so, I still remember, I was, kind of, feeling alone. I'm sitting there. And I'm drinking my beer at the partio, but I'm, kind of, sitting there. And you could… I'm trying not to just cry, because I was really having a, “Do I stick with this,” you know. And one of the alumni came over and just started chatting with me. And they said, “Don’t worry about it. You know what? Everybody, yada, yada.” “But what if I fail?” And, you know, it was all the emotion and the fear. It was fear, is what it was.

[37:31]Maya: What if you fail? Well, what if you don't? That's my hole. It's like, what if you don't?

[37:36]Mindy: Right. Well, and that goes back for me, the evolution as well, as I've always had that kind of fear of failure. I've got to do everything 200%. And as I get older and crankier, I'm getting a little bit more like Kathy Bates in Fried Green Tomatoes, where I just don't care.

[37:54]Maya: Try Kathy Bates in Misery!

[38:01]Mindy: I’m not that bad. I’m not that bad, yet. But I tell you, you know, the older I get, the less I have that fear. Quite honestly, it's also, that's what comes from overcoming fears again and again, right? And MBA school is one of those. And so, I say that to say one of the things I did throughout was connect with alumni whenever I had the opportunity at different events. And even now, I love to hear people's stories and I like to hear what people do and I like to hear… You know, quite honestly, they'll ask me questions sometimes that then gets me thinking about things. And it's great to have that interaction. And, you know, people talk about network all the time in the sense of using your network if you're looking for a job or things like that. For me, it's really, it's the learning. And for me, too, being a team leader, I've never had an official mentor in my company. I had some unofficial ones that I would ask because I, you know, looked up to them. And for me, now, not that I'm an expert on anything, but I can definitely tell them what not to do.

[39:04]Maya: Those are usually the most important pieces. I learned, if they listen, I mean, it's like, you know, with my children, it's like, “Listen, I did this.” And it's, like, you know, your kids, you're out the window, you're going to do whatever you want to do anyway. But as an adult, it's like, “Wait a minute, Mindy told me. I'm going to put that in my pocket and I’m going to remember this.”

[39:23]Mindy: Yeah, and like anything, it's not telling them what to do. It's hearing them asking probing questions and, really, maybe not giving them the solution but helping them go down that path of finding a solution for themselves and offering examples of things that, like I said, and it's true, “You know, one thing I did that I would not recommend,” things like that, and if there's something that I can do to help, great, you know.

And the other thing I would say, going back to Rice, is I had two overseas assignments in London in my career. And both times, I leveraged my Rice network and my UT as well. Both have alumni groups there. I still run the London Rice Owls social media page right now because nobody's taken it over. But that's how I met some friends who are still to this day great friends, because I would organize happy hours or if there was something going on. A lot of times, I'd try to merge with the University of Texas alumni. If they had an event going on, I'd make sure that the, you know, “Hey, we're all Texas alumni. Let's get together.” So, it was a great way to make friends in a place where, you know, I had just moved to. And I still learn a lot from those groups, as well.

[40:39]Maya: Well, and I will tell you that both UT and Rice are very, very lucky to have you as an alum, because you do so much for both organizations, both institutions. 

[40:49]Mindy: It's nice to have some interactions and, you know, especially when you're living overseas and you get the opportunity to hang out with fellow Americans and they even did some crawfish boils and things that it was, kind of, a little bit of home in the middle of central London. So, yeah.

[41:06]Maya: Well, let me ask you, final thoughts. Give me three lessons, because you said three lessons to live by and what you would like folks to know on Owl Have You Know.

[41:19]Mindy: You know what? I would say number one is, whether it's your life or your career, it's not a straight line. And you can plan it out. I just was saying this to my sister-in-law. You can be the best planner. You can have every little detail planned out. Life is always going to throw you curveballs. And how you react to those curveballs, have the courage, overcome the fear, because some of those curveballs end up being amazing opportunities even though they might not have been in your original plans. That's definitely one.

I guess number two would be always be curious. One of the things that I think I have benefited from is I'm not afraid to ask a lot of questions. Sometimes, that can annoy people, or sometimes I do worry that, especially, if it's someone senior, they might see it as a, you know, just why is she asking so many questions? But you know what, that's how you… again, that's how you learn. Be curious, though, and learn new things. Don't get comfortable. Especially right now, just in the marketing area, you know, the amount of technology and change and AI and the hot topics. And no, you don't have to necessarily be the expert on it, but especially, if you want to move up and you want to manage teams of the experts in those different areas, you need to know enough to be dangerous and to make sure that you're providing that direction, right?

[42:45]Maya: I like that. You're not the steamroller. You're just dangerous.

[42:48]Mindy: Yeah. And, you know, I guess that would be the third thing, too. And I've already said it. You don't have to be an expert on everything. And you don't... 

[42:59]Maya: You can’t be.

[43:00]Mindy: And you can't, you're absolutely right. And going back to, I used to want to do every single thing 200%. I had to do everything. And, you know, that's how I suddenly got sucked into the workaholic mode. And that's also how I got sucked into the allowing myself to stress out about things that, looking back, I shouldn't have stressed out about because you don't. And especially, as a team leader, you know, nobody's the expert at every single thing. And you'll frustrate yourself. And you will kill yourself trying to be an expert at everything.

[43:34]Maya: I think that's something that they taught us in business school.

[43:36]Mindy: Absolutely. And obviously, I'm still working on that.

[43:39]Maya: Well, we all are. We're all a work-in-progress, right? We're all works-in-progress. And you know, I think that what's really wonderful, as you said, you know, you get to meet these people, you get to hear their stories, you get to connect with them. And that's one of the joys of being able to talk to someone like you, and to share your story with the rest of our Rice community.

So, I'm just so grateful that I got to spend some time with you. And I'm really excited about what the future has in store for you. And I'm really thrilled that you're part of our show. So, thank you for being here.

[44:10]Mindy: Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.

[44:15]Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.

[00:00]Maya: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

[00:12]Brian: Welcome, everyone. I'm Brian Jackson, today's guest host on the Owl Have You Know Podcast. And I'm thrilled to interview Will Eldridge. I've gotten to know Will over the last three years serving on the Rice Business Alumni Association Board and now on the Executive Committee, as he's the current president-elect of the board.

Will, you're a twice Rice grad with degrees in engineering and accounting, then went on to get an MBA at Chicago Booth, and now you're making an impact at Bain & Co. My voice may not be ready for primetime, probably better suited for conference calls, but with a career path as fascinating as yours, Will, I've got to ask, do you have a favorite chapter in all these pivots, or are you still writing it?

[00:53]Will: Brian, it's great to be here. I'll say, for what it's worth, I think you definitely have the voice for podcasting. So, don't sell yourself short. As far as the pivoting goes, yeah, I would say my favorite pivot has been the original to the MAcc Program at the Jones School. Actually, I was a student in engineering and I actually applied to Ryerson Economics. They didn't have the business major that the Jones School currently has. But figuring out what I wanted to do was exploring the technical side of engineering. And while I really enjoyed it, did figure out I didn't want to be a practicing engineer. And through taking some accounting classes and meeting with Ben Lansford, who is the original and, to this day, program director of the MAcc, found my way into the world of accounting. And it was a great transition and really speaks to the program that Jones has brought back with the MAcc program, which is a pivot for almost everyone, right? Anyone from any background besides accounting can find their way to that next chapter. And I’m still riding the wave a little bit, as you say, but that was definitely the favorite one for me.

[02:00]Brian: That's great. So, tell me about Ben Lansford. You know, what type of impact did he have on you? Are there any memories from your time in the program that really stick out?

[02:08]Will: Yeah, of course. Ben is this amazing dad figure for a lot of us who found our way to the MAcc. I say that because he has these great dad jokes, but he also helps a lot of people find their way and is someone who has made accounting, which gets a bad rap in a lot of circles, you know, the favorite class that some people take. I've heard it from MBA students, that, you know, it's one of their best classes they've taken with him for MAcc students, that he's one of the best teachers they've had in his managerial accounting class.

And, you know, when they announced bringing this program back to Rice, there were no current or former students to speak to but Ben Lansford had been hired. And I got coffee with him, I remember, and started talking about the program, the opportunities. And it was just a great connection that I know he's made with a lot of the students going through the program. And he really helped me understand how I could marry my current background with a master's degree in accounting and make that transition, despite having not a lot of accounting experience yet and gave me that confidence to make the transition.

[03:02]Brian: Yeah. And I guess, when you're making a big change, the confidence is everything, right? And you did it having, you know, the experience and exposure from Rice. So, I guess, going back a little further, you know, why did you pick Rice for undergrad and then stick with it for the additional program through MAcc?

[03:18]Will: You know, it's, kind of, unfounded. At first, I grew up in the neighborhood, going to some Rice baseball games and wanted to go to Rice without really knowing why until I was looking at colleges and seeing it had the highest quality of life when I was applying, the happiest students. And it was an amazing academic institution with a lot of flexibility. People could change majors. You have the humanities, you have engineering, you have the social sciences. And that was very appealing to me as someone who was a little torn between the business and economics and more technical side on engineering.

As far as figuring out my path from engineering to the MAcc program, I, like a lot of people in their major, maybe you do an internship, maybe you learn a little bit more about the career path stemming from that and figure out it's not where you want to go as the next step in your career. And as one of those people, I started exploring other options besides civil and environmental engineering. Took a couple of accounting classes and realized I was decent at it and didn't hate it as much as most people.

So, it was actually a pretty good fit. And once I talked to Lansford about the opportunities in this program, started doing some research on working as a Big Four accountant, networking with those firms and applying for internships, I found myself on a path I was very excited about. And then, later on, in this community in Rice Business, beyond my four years as a Rice undergrad, that I was just so lucky to find and be a part of.

[05:00]Brian: So, you graduate, you have your master in accounting, and then you begin working at Deloitte. What was your experience like there? What were the main lessons?

[05:09]Will: Yeah. So, I absolutely love my time at Deloitte. I can't say enough great things about that firm and the company and the people there. And from day one, they tell you, you know, “Our product is the people that we have. We're a professional services company.” And when I joined the firm, I learned a ton. I mean, it was my first full-time job. I had an internship with them, but as anyone who has worked in public accounting will tell you, an internship in the summer compared to a full-time job in busy season, those are just worlds apart, which I don't advise people to do. Don't start in busy season if you're going down this path. But I started there, drinking from the fire hose, and just got up to speed very quickly on what it is we bring to our clients, how we work with them. I had a little bit the perception of, the auditor is here in a compliance role, and there's some tension with your clients. And really, you're there working together, trying to help them report things the proper way, get through any hurdles together.

You know, I want to find nothing. Ideally, you know, if everything's smooth sailing for you, it's smooth sailing for me. So, that was something I learned along the way. But just a phenomenal company, the learnings of working in audit and helping companies comply with regulations and document, their financials and their controls is just an amazing learning curve that you climb up and ramp up quickly.

[06:32]Brian: So, I was thinking, like, in terms of client management, you know, having worked in the trenches, right, you've joined conversations where folks think you're out to find the one missed numeric and decimal point that's been misplaced, how do you change that perception and really make it more of a symbiotic relationship?

[06:53]Will: It's a good question that we constantly fight as auditors or as a former auditor. The perception that we're the enemy is tough sometimes. People don't want the auditor knocking on the door. And I made a huge effort to befriend and get to know the clients that I was working with beyond, obviously, the financial reporting pieces I needed from them, which made them more willing to help me and understand. And then just align our incentives. Sometimes, they don't necessarily have the full picture that, “You legally have to be audited. But as far as that goes, I really want to help us get through this as smoothly as possible. And if we work together and you trust me, I'm happy to make this as little work for you as possible. You know, I will take on more of that burden.”

So, gaining their trust in that way and just making them understand that, “We're on the same side. We want this to be as little work as possible and as smooth as possible.” Obviously, we have rules and regulations we're following and have to follow areas. We have to dig deeper. But a lot of clients are very happy when they figure that out. And you said, “Oh, you know, the auditors, they're just doing their job and we're, kind of, on the same side.”

[08:04]Brian: That's great. So, you know, you're in this high-stress environment, you're working through the cycles of high and low, and you decide, “Okay, I want to go get my MBA.” What was the moment that triggered that? But then, you know, what was the goal? What were you trying to head towards?

[08:23]Will: You know, I don't remember a specific moment, but I will say I figured that I loved the client service aspect of the job I was in. I, at some point, figured out the accounting and financial reporting path wasn't what I wanted to do long term but I wanted to stay in client service. Did some exploring. I actually circled back to the Center for Career Development at Rice, reaching out to them to talk about different paths to explore and spoke to some other alums. Figured out I wanted to go into strategy consulting, so a bit more of results-oriented work, in some ways, but keeping that analysis piece that I had learned as an auditor when we're looking at trends. And with that, I figured out the best way to do that would be to go to business school to set myself up for that recruiting process and eventuality. So, I made a huge change from, you know, my dear swamp, that it's Houston that I love so much, to the coldest big city in the country, aside from Minneapolis. And as I went up to Chicago, I had a lot of concern from family and friends, because even among the people here in Houston, I am someone who likes it really hot.

[09:36]Brian: So, you did a two-year program in Chicago. And at the same time, you were serving on the Rice Business Alumni Association Board, correct?

[09:46]Will: That's right.

[09:47]Brian: You're on the Rice Business Alumni Association Board. Concurrently, you're serving as president of the Awty International School Alumni Board. Tell me about, kind of, what has driven you to volunteer and, in particular, you know, focusing on these alumni networks.

[10:02]Will: Yeah, it's funny. My dad is someone who's quite involved in volunteership and nonprofit board service. And he has served on the Awty Board of Trustees back in the day. He serves as the chairman for the French American Chamber of Commerce of Texas and the Humanities Advisory Board at Rice actually as well.

So, I had always seen him in some of these roles. And he had encouraged me to be open to these opportunities. And it's not something that I knew I wanted to do, but when I was approached from the head of advancement at Awty about joining their alumni board, you know, he really encouraged me to take that step and lean into it, hoping that it would be a great fit for me, based on what he knew about me, and he couldn't have been more right. And it's something that I love doing. I find it extremely rewarding to give back to these institutions that have invested in me and to bring people together who share something in a community, whether it's a direct connection of being in the school at the same time or having common career interests and finding that link later on. So, it's really just a way to get back that is very meaningful to me based on, you know, what these institutions and people who have come before me have invested in me.

[11:15]Brian: I think it's a great perspective and, like, giving back. And, you know, in a selfish way, too, there is, like, an added benefit to volunteering in these external organizations, right? Like, you learn how to be a leader, how to work across different industries and, you know, communicate with folks of all different class years and backgrounds. Like, that is a skill that we're able to, kind of, push. And we get to find out new strengths and new weaknesses and develop those. You know, having been on the board now for three years, being president-elect now, I'd be curious about, going into next year when your term starts in July, you know, what strength are you going to really leverage? And what do you hope to, maybe, expand on?

[11:58]Will: I would love to leverage the strength of mentorship. I care deeply about sharing my experiences with those who can benefit from learning about a chapter that's still yet to come for them that I have already been through. And that's something that I think we have amazing opportunities to get back the board and the CDO at Jones.

As far as expanding, maybe some more direct tools that we can assist students with, whether it be the Alumni in Residence Program that the CDO has, where we're connecting people to have conversations that can take a mentorship angle or a networking angle, or helping Rice Consulting rev on their new casebook and their networks that they form as a consulting group to help each other prepare for interviews. I think there are a lot of ways that we can get back there, and there's a huge willingness to get back in the community. So, all of that, with the overarching idea of making it easy for people to give back. And as long as it's easy for people to get back, I know that the Rice community is always there for the next wave of people coming through.

[13:09]Brian: That's such a great perspective. And I do think, like, all of what you're describing is wisdom, which is the compound interest of experience and you've gone through it. You've benefited from, you know, folks reaching out and these great conversations with alumni. So, I'd be curious, you know, in looking at consulting, when I think of it, all I think are the buzzwords. “Let's circle back. Let's pouch this. I'm over my skis.” I could probably think of 15 more. But, you know, what does your day-to-day look like? And, you know, if you had advice for someone thinking about pivoting into consulting, what would you recommend?

[13:46]Will: That's a good question, you know, the candid day-to-day, it's… the most consulting answer I could give you would be, it depends. But the days are long, usually, Monday through Thursday. Fridays are shorter. And usually, you have some other meetings and investments in extra 10, as we call them at Bain, affinity groups, fun at Bain, community service. And, you know, Monday through Thursday, you're often at the client site or at a different office co-locating with your team. There's a split of conversations with clients, turning materials, answer sessions throughout the day. And you generally start and end your day with a team huddle.

So, it's a very fast-paced way of working, where, twice a day, you're really giving an update on your work stream and your work product and revving immediately, you know, between the AM sync and the PM sync, and then the PM sync and some night work, and then the next day's AM sync.

So, advice on how to make the most of consulting, if you're going to pivot there, would be to work hard and be a sponge. The opportunities for learning are just abundant. You will learn at such a fast pace from the people around you and the words you get to do. And I think the process of having to turn materials and move things along and push forward on what is the driving answer on your different work streams really lends itself to this culture of learning and accelerated growth.

[15:23]Brian: That's great. So, you've been at Bain almost a year now.

[15:26]Will: That's right. It feels like longer, I will say it.

[15:30]Brian: So, in that time, and you could probably use high-level details, but what has been your most challenging project? And how have you navigated through it?

[15:40]Will: I think, at the beginning, I struggled with, on my first project, some ambiguity. Sometimes, you have a big task and it's hard to figure out at the beginning, how am I going to break this down and move this forward? And work plan for the next, you know, two or three weeks, what are all the parts of this work that have to happen? And looking to the future and coming up with an answer on what is going to happen, your hypothesis on what the core answer will be, or what needs to happen is really hard. And that's why companies hire us to come in and figure it out — because it's difficult. And it's one of the hardest parts of the job. And, you know, if it's something you've learned to, even if there's ambiguity and you don't know for certain, you gain some comfort with giving your best shot and coming up with a rationale to defend whatever it is you're putting forward. If my manager asks me, “Okay, but why, or why did you pick this or put this on the page,” anything that you've put forth, you need to have a way to back up and explain. And that rationalization skill and mindset has really helped me with the ambiguity, which is a challenging piece.

[16:52]Brian: So, you're often having to present these complex challenging, you know, issues and give a solution in a way that's incredibly clear, right? Beyond being clear in what you're saying, you've also got to have some credibility with them, right?

[17:09]Will: Mm-hmm.

[17:09]Brian: And I was just curious, like, what skills do you really draw upon to buy that credibility with your clients?

[17:16]Will: For one, approaching whatever you're presenting to them with a mindset of context reset, you're deep in the details, and it's hard to sometimes pull up and look at the work that you're presenting and remember the limited context that your client might have and how much else they have going on. So, there's definitely a level of empathizing that is really critical. And so, to put yourself in their shoes and think, you know, what are they coming at this from? What do they care about? What do they need to get out of this? And what is the one or two things they should take away from this conversation, is a good frame of mind to take. I took a leadership class at Booth where we talked specifically about empathizing and putting yourself in the shoes of those you work with. And we had some workshops in that class that have definitely helped me in the consulting role.

[18:09]Brian: That's great. So, Will, you're a native Houstonian, you grew up here, but you attended the Awty International School. Could you tell me a bit about the genesis of that?

[18:18]Will: Sure. You know, my maternal grandmother is from France and came over after the war. I would have to say hi to her on here, of course. I know she’s listening. Bonjour, Simone. Merci pour tout.

And it was really important to my mom that we preserve that French heritage. So, I had the good fortune of being enrolled in the Awty School's French program. And I don't think it was ever the plan for me to stay as long as I did. But, you know, found this amazingly rich international and francophone community there that, obviously, myself, my brother, we had a great time. And my family, as a whole, just really leaned in and loved that school and community. And I was lucky enough to take all my classes in French through middle school.

[19:02]Brian: Do you have your internal monologue in English, or is it in French?

[19:05]Will: You know, it's in English. And we spoke English at home, but I do dream in French, still, at decent amount. And certain math, I still do in French in my head, funny enough.

[19:20]Brian: So, when's the last time you were in Paris? I know we were talking a few days ago about the Rice campus there. Have you been?

[19:27]Will: You know, I haven't. And so, while the last time I was there was last winter, I think you and I need to go as soon as possible. Maybe next week we hop over to Paris. Yeah, I actually went on exchange to study at HEC in my second winter at Booth. So, I had a really nice time living in Paris and going to HEC for a few months, which I'd always wanted to do study abroad. Not something I managed to do as an undergrad. And, you know, second bite of the apple made it happen. I have yet to make it to the campus, but I have lived in the neighborhood it's in and walked by, actually, the block it's on. So, I am extremely eager to go and super proud of Rice for taking that step internationally for their presence in Paris. And can't wait to check it out with you sometime, man.

[20:13]Brian: Yeah, I know. We've got to plan an excursion. So, maybe, we can put a motion before the board.

[20:19]Will: Let's go. I will be our tour guide in the moraine. Show us around.

[20:23]Brian: You'll have to be my translator, too, because I am awful in any foreign language. It should be illegal for me to even drive.

[20:31]Will: No, no. [French 20:32].

[20:36]Brian: I have no idea what you said. Hopefully, it was nice. So, Will, I've been able to get to know you through the Rice Business Alumni Association Board. To me, the 19 members on there are, you know, fantastic. They're enthusiastic about Rice Business. They're excited about the future, and they're constantly trying to find ways to, you know, bolster the value of the school to the alumni community. I think you and I get to stand on the shoulders of some really great leaders, you know, Tracy, Tim, looking at David Holmes right now, who's the current president. From this experience and exposure and watching these other great people continue to contribute back to the school, you know, what's driving your commitment to stay on the board? And what excites you about the future of Rice Business?

[21:25]Will: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to excite me about it. I will say my first original exposure to Rice Business and some of these people was when I was working at the Pub at Rice, at Willy's Pub in the basement across from the Jones School. And MBA Happy Hour, let me tell you, that's the best shift for anyone at the pub. And we were saying, these people who are tipping $2 on a $2 beer, they are making serious money. But it was funny. I actually did recognize several of the board members we've had the pleasure of working with from, serving them, and just chatting with them across the bar there.

In terms of joining the board and getting to work with these people, it's something I never knew that I was going to love so much and become such a part of my life. I was also extremely fortunate to have a mentor through all this and a close friend who's my dad. And my dad has served on many boards in his time. And it's something I always knew he did, but didn't really fully understand. But, you know, he's chaired the Humanities Advisory Board at Rice, the French-American Chamber of Commerce Board in Texas, and served on the Awty International School Board of Trustees back in the day, too. So, whenever I've been going through these steps, he was always someone I could turn to for advice and could help me figure out how to lean in a little deeper and encourage me to keep giving back even when I felt really stretched with work. And so, I've been extremely lucky.

It's been amazing to find this community of people who care so deeply and make it a priority in their lives to get back. And getting to see people excited about their passions, the way that our alumni board has carved out ways for people that didn't exist to get back in the ways that they're passionate about, has been really inspiring. And that's something that I want to keep doing and have taken with me to other alumni boards that I've worked with and, you know, gotten people to volunteer by encouraging them to recognize, “If you're passionate about something, we will help find a way for you to get back in that way.” And that's been one of my favorite things about the group of people we work with on the board.

[23:33]Brian: So, Will, you've finished business school. You made the pivot. And, you know, a lot of my classmates, even myself included, like, you go to business school to do a course correction. I would love just any advice you would offer for folks, you know, in the early stages, maybe about to apply and are thinking of this career two, three years away where they may end up going. What would you recommend?

[23:57]Will: I would say, keep your eyes on the prize right in front of you. Of course, do what you need to do to get to the one chapter out that you've come to business school to get to. But more broadly, if you can, look a little further. Try to think two chapters out. I think it's extremely valuable and something that pays off in the long run. So, if you're pivoting, you know, don't be afraid to think, “Well, not just where am I going now, but where might I want to be later?” You know, in my case, I've just started with Bain. And it's amazing. And I hope to ride it out. But something I've always thought of, given being from the energy capital of the world and half French, is, you know, the French energy ecosystem here. You know, it's something that I would like to tap into at some point. There are ample opportunities in Houston to work in that sphere. And that's something that I've thought of two steps out as well.

[24:54]Brian: That's great. And I have no doubt that you will be successful once you get there. So, I think we can take it to a different angle here. I've heard that you have a passion for crafting classic cocktails. I have yet to enjoy one of these classic cocktails. If you had to pick one that matched your personality, which would you choose, and why?

[25:16]Will: Well, you're definitely overdue. So, we'll grab one here shortly after this episode. My favorite cocktail is the Sazerac. And it is from Louisiana, New Orleans. It is a hybrid of, you know, American and French culture, just like myself, a little American rye whiskey and some French absinthe. And, you know, you throw a few back and you're going to have a good time, you know. And if you're spending a lot of time with me, we're going to have some fun. I promise that. So, big fan of the Sazerac, and I will make you one anytime.

[25:49]Brian: You've got a deal. I want to thank you, Will, for joining us on the Owl Have You Know Podcast and for letting me be your guest host. It's been such an honor and just a ton of fun. I think, you know, even working together for three years, there's always more that I learn about you where it's like, “This guy has got so many interesting parts to his background.” So, I appreciate you sharing and the advice you gave, and yeah.

[26:14]Will: Brian, thank you so much. It's been an honor and pleasure being here. Couldn't have asked for a better person to have this conversation with.

[26:20]Brian: I'm looking forward to that Sazerac.

[26:26]Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.