[00:00]Maya: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

Executive MBA Mindy Smith wouldn't call herself a powerhouse, but rather, someone who seeks out, embraces, and thrives on taking on a challenge. The Shell marketing executive talks with us about her rise in the fast-paced industry, which all started by a risk she took back in college, by sneaking into her very first job interview.

Not only did it pay off, but instilled the kind of courage and gumption carrying her to where she is today, not only professionally, but personally. She tells us about her treasured time at Rice Business, the deep friendships made, the life lessons learned, and how the tremendous opportunity changed her perspective on just about everything.

Welcome, Mindy.

[00:57]Mindy: Thank you. Happy to be here.

[00:59]Maya: Well, we're thrilled to have you. You have a really fascinating pivot story, and I cannot wait to hear all about that. You are currently the Global Brand Strategy and Marketing Performance Manager at Shell's Mobility Business. But I hear that there's a change coming up that we'll also discuss, that your role is changing. So, you've built a distinguished career around consumer products and, also, now, in the energy sector, you've had opportunities to work at Kraft and at Coca-Cola and now at Shell. Wow. Those, I mean, that's, kind of, like, night and day.

[01:41]Mindy: You know what? It's not as different as many people will think, because to clarify, you know, Shell, like, many of the big energy companies, many divisions, and I am in what they call their downstream division. And what I have always been involved in, in my career at Shell, are the consumer-facing products, right? Whether it's the fuel at our sites or Pennzoil motor oil. So, those are still consumer-facing goods. And a lot of the strategies and the things that we do are very similar. In fact, that's why Shell hired me away from the CPG side, because they wanted people who had that CPG experience years ago for their consumer products.

[02:24]Maya: Well, they recognized, you know, in order to market those sorts of things, you need people that have that competitive advantage. So, where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Houston?

[02:34]Mindy: You know what? I actually grew up just outside of Austin in a little town called Pflugerville.

[02:40]Maya: I'm familiar. We moved here from Austin. So, I know exactly where Pflugerville…it was, it has just exploded, most recently.

[02:47]Mindy: Well, not to get into how old I am, but yeah, I was there when it was pretty much just, you know, one high school, one intermediate school and they had two elementary schools. And yeah, it's huge now when I go back.

[03:02]Maya: So, grew up in Pflugerville. Where'd you go to college?

[03:07]Mindy: So, I went to University of Texas undergrad.

[03:10]Maya: Woot-woot!

[03:10]Mindy: So, I actually went to high school here in Houston. We moved. And then I got back to Austin as soon as I could and graduated from UT. And while I was at UT, I worked a lot. I did a lot of crazy jobs. So, if any of you were in Austin, at that time, they might remember me on the Randall's TV commercials. I dressed up as a big present for a UPS campaign. So, yeah, I've done a lot of weird jobs, but it was great experience with all of them.

[03:39]Maya: Well, those are all marketing jobs and brand strategy jobs.

[03:44]Mindy: Absolutely.

[03:45]Maya: I mean, if you really, kind of, think about it, those are all interconnected. So, when did you decide that this is the field that really spoke to you?

[03:52]Mindy: You know, when I look back and people ask me about how I planned my career and things like that, I'm about to say something that most people, especially career coaches, might roll their eyes at. I didn't have a plan. You know what? When I was 21 and I was about to graduate, I think I had $5 in my checking account. I was applying for anything and everything. I just wanted a job. And I had school loans that I had to start paying off immediately when I graduated. So, for me, obviously, I wasn't applying for, you know, engineering roles or anything like that, but I was a liberal arts major undergrad, and I was sneaking into the business school in applications. And I managed to get quite a few. And a lot of the jobs that I held during college helped get me the interviews. And that's actually how Kraft Foods hired me.

True story. It's a great interview story because I still remember, his name was Reggie, the guy that interviewed me. And he looked at me and he didn't realize I was the only non-business major he was interviewing that day. And this is on the UT campus. And he looked, he said, “Wait a minute, you're a history major. What are you doing here?” And I said, you know, “Well, I think I'm a great fit for this role.” And he said, “Why would I even talk to you when I have a whole string of business majors right behind you today that actually have studied business?” I said, “Okay, how many of them have actually been in business for the past, you know, four years? How many of them can tell you what an SKU is? How many of them have placed orders? How many of them can tell you what inventory is like in a retail store? How many of them can explain to you…” you know. And that immediately caught his attention. So, then, we had a discussion, and he ended up giving me the job that they had in Dallas.

[05:42]Maya: Yeah, I think Reggie made the right choice that day. And think about that, you know, if you're just starting out, to have the boldness to say all of those things in an interview.

[05:55]Mindy: Yes, I was desperate.

[05:58]Maya: Desperation brings out this force in everyone, I think, that it's like, “I need this and I'm going to get it,” you know. It's that will.

[06:07]Mindy: And you know what? That was, really, my first professional lesson, though. It really was, because up until then, I was very timid and shy about… I would not normally have been that bold and aggressive, but I felt challenged. I really thought he might kick me out of the interview and with my back against the wall. And I remember walking out and thinking, “You know what? If you're going to want to get into the business world, you have to be more assertive. You have to say what you think.” Yes, you have to do it in the right way, but if I had cowered, I think he would have just said, “Interview over,” and, “Thank you, but, you know, we want business majors.” I'm pretty sure that's how it would have gone.

[06:51]Maya: Well, I can probably tell you, just a hunch here, that I don't think any other applicant did what you did in that business school. So, what years were you at Kraft? I'm just curious. In terms of what their products were at the time, that’s…

[07:05]Mindy: Yeah, that was before the big merger with Heinz, but it was right as they were merging with Nabisco in the late ‘90s. So, at that time, they had everything from Kraft salad dressing, cheese, Oscar Mayer. We inherited the Nabisco line, so we had Nabisco products like crackers and things like that.

[07:25]Maya: The Keebler elves.

[07:27]Mindy: Yeah, we had Starbucks coffee, the grocery line, at the time. I remember that was a big intro. You know, at that time, when I was doing planograms and calling on some of the big grocery store accounts, it was so big, there were, usually, two or three of us calling on Kroger or-

[07:49]Maya: Randalls.

[07:49]Mindy: … Randalls’ Tom Thumb, as it was that time. That was when they had a lot more stores, too. Because they just had so many products, and one person, really, couldn't do it all for grocery stores of that size, and H-E-B especially. That's when I lived in San Antonio and I was actually in house for H-E-B, doing their planograms and data analysis on their products.

[08:09]Maya: So, this was before H-E-B really became a household name, right? Like, that was about the same time when H-E-B was growing.

[08:19]Mindy: They were growing. They were still a pretty big powerhouse. Even back then, H-E-B was one of the top 10 customers for Kraft, just in the volume of their stores. And they had just started to expand into Mexico. They were very technologically savvy with how they did their stores and their product selections. They were doing similarly to Walmart at the time.

[08:43]Maya: That's what I was gonna say, Walmart, where they figured out how to scan and, you know, like, really shave off a bunch of time. There was a case study in business school at Rice that we did during my EMBA experience, specifically about Walmart and why they had that edge, is because they figured out how to scan things. And, like, literally, they would just put truck next to truck, like, back-to-back, and they would just, you know, shuffle things in and out. And it was fascinating to read about them.

[09:10]Mindy: Well, I was doing more of the planograms and it’s still fascinating to me because, at that time, I mean, pretty much it's the standard now, but back then, you know, I'm talking late ‘90s, early 2000s here, every store had store-specific planograms. And if you don't know what a planogram is, I'm talking about the shelving and how the products or what products are laid out, how many facings they get, that sort of thing. And there's a lot of strategy and thought that goes into it. And what Walmart and H-E-B and, I think, maybe two others in the country at the time, were doing, they had the software where you could import the demographic data within a certain radius of what that store, you know, where it was located, and based on those different demographics and other stores that had similar demographics or similar, you know, when I say demographics, that's everything from income, occupation…

[10:05]Maya: Well, the products that sold, the highest sellers and how to merchandise them, and…

[10:08]Mindy: We would start by importing, you know, what were the top sellers for those types of profiles? And then we'd adjust based on the estimated sales for a like-for-like store. And, you know, a perfect example of that, I always still laugh. I was very naive back then, you know. I thought of grocery stores from my experience growing up, and when we were going into Mexico and along the border, I remember there were certain products, that I remember they'd have a whole aisle of just canned beans, I kid you not. And, you know, in most grocery stores, they might've had maybe eight feet. And I was like, “Why do we have a whole aisle?” And then people would explain, you know.

[10:46]Maya: Price per square foot, it makes sense. This is what sells.

[10:49]Mindy: Right. Well, in the non-perishable things, and this is what they like, because it's very filling. You know, there were all these reasons and insights that went behind those decisions.

[10:59]Maya: Well, and even now, when you walk into a Starbucks anywhere around the world, they're completely different. They're really, really tailored. You know, whenever we're traveling and I’m with my kids, they're just like, “Wait, they have, like, real cups here?” I'm like, well, actually all those real cups, that's one of the strategies that they're bringing to the U.S. now. Under their leadership and their transition, you really do need to tailor it to the consumer. And I don't think that a lot of people think about that, because usually here for us, an example, like Target or Walmart, you walk in and they pretty much are the same. And they're the same for a reason because it's the same demographics, right?

[11:36]Mindy: Yeah.

[11:39]Maya: And then you go to a different, you know, part of the country or a different part of the world, and I mean, even Boston, you know, I walked into a Target and I was like, “I don't understand. I don't know where anything is. This is nothing like Houston.” And I'm not going to be able to find, you know, like, the cotton balls that I'm looking for. So, it's fascinating. It's human psychology, as well.

[11:58]Mindy: Oh, well, I'll give you another one. You know, in my past role in London, 2019 to 2021, that was right during the pandemic, and I was the global customer experience manager for all of our markets with retail sites.

[12:14]Maya: This is at Shell? This is when you're already at shell?

[12:17]Mindy: Yes.

[12:18]Maya: Okay.

[12:18]Mindy: And one of the programs I ran was our voice of the customer program, which is direct customer feedback. And we would get that in different ways, whether it was emails or on site, with QR codes, where customers could scan and give direct feedbacks. We had some of the kiosks in the stores, like, maybe you've seen in the airports with the smiley faces or the unhappy faces, you know, “how was your visit.” But we would collect all that data. And the ones that used email and app or QR code, we had open text boxes for them to specifically tell us, you know, if they said something went really well, “Tell us what went well. If something did not, tell us why. Help us improve.” And that sort of direct feedback led to a lot of interesting things during the pandemic.

So, during COVID, at our retail sites, you know, they were considered essential, obviously, because you still had to fuel emergency vehicles and, you know, people who were considered important essential workers, things like that. A lot of people started going to our sites even to buy toilet paper and bottled water. And, you know, there were things that we were trying to do. And at the same time, we were trying to have care for our, we call them service champions at our sites, the workers at our sites, because they're going through this pandemic, just like everybody else. And how can we also take care of them at the same time?

And one of the first data sources I went to internally was our voice of the customer feedback. And I could filter specifically on anything around health and safety, COVID, anywhere they mentioned at a site something that was good or bad, so I can use that analysis to, kind of, see what the key touch points or the areas that they were feeling not happy about at our sites. And it was quickly easy to identify, globally, there were consistencies with things that customers wanted to see at our sites. And through that, I developed an entire campaign that I called “Let's Stay Safe,” where we had communication materials at our site. And we trained the service champions and made sure that they knew what they needed to do to keep things clean and what were the key areas that customers focused on — pump handles, door handles. Was the service champion wearing his mask properly? Was there availability of hand sanitizer?

And it's really, you know, we talk about business needs and, you know, even in MBA school, we did a lot of business cases around companies. I remember that specifically one around Unilever, when they were trying to expand into Asia, with some of their shaving products. And they hadn't, in many ways, done as much insight, I guess, digging, as they could have done, to understand that, you know, the instances of shaving were different in Asia than it was in other… I don't know if you all did that one or not.

[15:14]Maya: We did.

[15:15]Mindy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the thing that I love, is taking the direct feedback from customers and then using that to make their experiences better. And that's really what the majority of the roles I've had in the past 10 years has been about.

[15:31]Maya: So, you started at Kraft, and then I know we skipped over to Shell, but let's talk about Coca-Cola. So, tell me about your time there and what the progression was, in terms of why you chose to make a change.

[15:43]Mindy: You know what? It was very simple. They recruited me.

[15:47]Maya: I had a suspicion. I had a suspicion.

[15:49]Mindy: So, I'm one of those people. If I like what I do and I feel I'm being challenged and I can deliver value and drive great things, I'm happy. And I had gotten to a point, with Kraft, I was on a great career progression. In fact, they were just about to move me to Tampa, Florida to call on Publix for Kraft. And I still remember that day, the plane landed. I was going to go look at housing and where I wanted to live and things like that. And when I landed, I had a voicemail from the headhunter, saying that they really wanted to talk to me. And that's, kind of, how it went down. I wasn't actually looking, but Coca-Cola gave me an opportunity to, one, not have to move every 12 months; two, it also gave me an opportunity, the role that they were interested in me for was, kind of, a half-marketing, half-insights kind of role. And my experience at Kraft in that role that I mentioned at H-E-B really spurred my interest in customer insights and doing more customer-focused things. It was great.

And for me, doing that versus going to another sales role, which is what that Publix role would have been, and admittedly, not having to move, that sold me on it. It was a great offer. So, I jumped ship and started at Coke. And, you know, it's one of those things. It's like a lot of things in life. It's not the easiest thing to do, but if you explain it and they understand your reasoning, it is what it is.

[17:28]Maya: Yeah. Well, and that, and, you also, you want career progression and you want to do the things that inspire you and motivate you. And that's part of leadership as well, is to say, “You know what? Like, I need to do this for myself.” And those are leadership qualities of making those hard decisions, but knowing that they're right for you.

[17:48]Mindy: Absolutely.

[17:49]Maya: So, how long were you at Coke?

[17:52]Mindy: I was only there for a year.

[17:53]Maya: Oh! Let me guess, were you recruited again for Shell?

[18:02]Mindy: Well, you know, that was a good lesson as well. You know, they had recruited me away from Kraft Foods. Had a really great year, had a wonderful boss, worked with great people who are still friends. Then, Coca-Cola did massive layoffs, and I was one of them. I still remember walking in with everyone, and we all got laid off together, and we all went out, and had drinks and had a really rough the next morning together.

[18:30]Maya: I hope you didn't have anything mixed with Coke. Sorry! It's like, “I'm gonna have that with Pepsi. Thank you.”

[18:40]Mindy: You know what? I'm still very loyal to them, and I'm still very loyal to Kraft. I still, even if it's not on sale, because both of those companies, even Coca-Cola, look, what they did, they did it to everyone together and it was a decision that came from way above, not even the people that I work directly with. Yes, it hurt the first month or two, but I got over it. And you know what? That was another thing. That goes back to that cliche saying about, sometimes, the lessons that hit the hardest are the ones that you grow the most from. And that was one of those. Because otherwise, I wouldn't have gone to Shell. And yes, Shell had reached out to me. In fact, I still remember. It was the next morning, not when I got home that evening, admittedly, after the drinks. I remember the next morning I woke up and I had five voicemails, and word had already gotten out amongst all the big recruiting firms about what Coca-Cola had done. And I already had a lot of messages with people wanting to talk to me, and one of them was Shell.

[19:41]Maya: So, tell me why you chose Shell.

[19:44]Mindy: A couple of different reasons. And it's funny, I've done some coaching and onboarding at Rice, and I'm a mentor, even in my company, and I get the question a lot about, why would you, you know, CPG, isn't that more exciting for a marketer than, you know…

[19:58]Maya: Consumer products, right? CPG, for those that don't know, CPG.

[20:01]Mindy: Yeah. And that was a critical point for me, a pivot, because, yes, if I had followed on the, kind of, the straight line path with consumer packaged goods, I'll say it out.

[20:13]Maya: Sorry, consumer-packaged goods. I was totally… clearly, I'm not in that industry.

[20:19]Mindy: Yeah, we have a lot of acronyms and we love them. So, I could have done that, and that would have been the easy path.

[20:25]Maya: But you don't want easy.

[20:27]Mindy: Well, you know, for me, it was more about learning a new industry. I also liked the fact that, quite honestly, Shell headquarters was here in Houston, their headquarters for North America. So, you could actually move around and work with…and even if you didn't actually, it wasn't in your specific line of business, you could learn a lot, just from being at a big hub like that. And that was something that I hadn't had a whole lot of and I missed when I had been with Kraft and Coca-Cola because as I moved around…In fact, I was one of the first ones working out of my house when I worked for Kraft in the late ‘90s, early 2000s. And I absolutely hated it. I felt like I didn't see people.

[21:14]Maya: Yeah. It's very isolating. What year did you start at Shell?

[21:17]Mindy: I started at Shell in 2003, so 21 years ago.

[21:22]Maya: And so, it was while you were at Shell that you decided to pursue your MBA. What was the catalyst? What made you decide that this is what you wanted to do? Because it seems like you were on a really nice little, you know, rise up in the industry.

[21:40]Mindy: That's a great question. That's another good lesson or point, because absolutely, I even had, at the time, my own VP, when I asked for approval to go back to school, because, of course, it was asking a lot in terms of time and things like that. And I was trying to also get some sponsorship from them to help me. And he basically said at the time, he's like, “You don't need this. Why?” And I told them, I said, “Well, why not? Wouldn't you want someone who has gone and learned more and had external perspectives and maybe learned what other industries do with similar challenges and business dynamics?”

[22:21]Maya: Personally and professionally, you want to increase your value.

[22:24]Mindy: Right, absolutely. And for me, it was almost a way to prove myself also, because as I moved up in Shell, I was pretty much working with people who had already gotten their MBAs in their 20s. And especially, a couple times, when people would ask me about where I went and what I did, they were always just floored that I was a history major. And I almost felt sometimes also that there were times when I would be in meetings and somebody would say something, and admittedly, because I hadn't been a business undergraduate, I did not know. You know, there were things, classes I didn't take. So, for me, I wanted to learn. 

I mean, on-the-job training is always the best training, in my opinion, but the value I got from my MBA and the things I learned, and even now, as a team lead, you know, I've been managing global teams where my director courts are spread everywhere in different time zones, and you have different cultures and you have different ways that people think, the ways that people like to hear about development and opportunities for improvement when you have your regular reviews, business reviews, their performance and that sort of thing. You know, I still remember talking to classmates in some of our management classes, hearing how people, even then, address some of those challenges. And I use them. I use them, even now.

[23:47]Maya: Yeah. Well, it's something that lasts forever.

[23:50]Mindy: Absolutely.

[23:50]Maya: It's an investment, that you get your return on investment for the rest of your life.

[23:55]Mindy: Absolutely.

[23:57]Maya: So, you asked if you could go and do this, and you beat them down to where they were like, “Okay. All right, Mindy.” Because I gather that you're one of those people that, you know, you get what you want. And it's refreshing to talk to somebody like that. It is also something that I've noticed with the MBAs that I talked to. It's this similar thread of, “I'm not taking no for an answer, and this is what I need and this is what I want. I'm going to go after it. And you can either say yes or no, but it doesn't really matter. I'm going to go do it.”

[24:26]Mindy: Yeah, absolutely. It's funny because you have to be careful with that. I was recently told by a VP in Europe that his nickname for me was the steamroller. Now, we get along.

[24:42]Maya: Oh, it’s a compliment.

[24:43]Mindy: He meant it as an endearment, I'm sure. You know, it was good feedback to get. And that goes back to what I was saying earlier about managing a team. And sometimes, you have to have those difficult conversations. And I actually appreciate the fact that his perception, whether it was real or not, he obviously, kind of, saw. And I did ask. I said, “Oh, well, I know I can be quite blunt and I'm famous for not having a filter at times. You know, help me understand more and how I can improve.” And I said it in a way that he didn't think I was, “What, you're calling me a steamroller, you know, a bull in a china shop? What do you mean by that?” But… and he just said, he goes, “You know, sometimes,” and it was interesting, “we've been going through a reorganization, a big one, globally, in our line of business. And all of us, myself included, we're fighting for our direct reports. We want to make sure they lay in good roles and that they don't leave the company, you know.” And I have a rockstar team. So, I've been really working to make sure that they have roles. So, yes, I've been a steamroller the last two months because I'm getting in these management meetings where we're talking about talent. And you're darn right, I'm going to step up and stand up for them. And yes, I will. And I'm not going to back down. And I might be a steamroller, but you know what? The end result is, especially when it comes to people, no regrets.

[26:08]Maya: Well, that, and it makes the organization stronger, whether… because they don't have those day-to-day interactions. They're not part of your team. And they don't see the magic every day.

[26:17]Mindy: Correct. Well, and that's another lesson right there, too, that I've been talking to my team about, since I've heard that of, you know what? No matter where everyone ends up, make sure that even people outside your own little bubble, your own little team, understands and, at least, hears about the great work that you do.

And it's not about necessarily running around, you know, blowing your own horn. It's really making sure that, whether it's through your manager or whether you having a coffee when you run into someone, you know, in the break room, setting up time and making the opportunity, that they know who you are. And I've always had a formula. I mean, even 20 years ago, when I had an actual office, I had on my board, the formula for success in a big company. And it was 60% your network, 20% actual work, and 20% perception and perceived work.

And I tell you, you know, one of the things with what's been going on lately, I've been telling people I might change my formula and put 50% network and 50% perception, because absolutely, in a time like this, where people who might not know you are making decisions about your future with the company, not only the network but the perception is big. So, more important than ever in times like this, where it pays off.

[27:42]Maya: Yes. And we are going through transitionary times. And you are actually going to be moving into a new role. Can you tell us about that? That, like I said, teased it at the beginning. So, tell me about your new role at Shell.

[27:58]Mindy: Yes. So, I am now going to… I will still be global, so I will still be having my 5:00 a.m. calls every day and my calls with Asia in the evening. But I will be the global insights and data analytics manager for Shell's Mobility business. So, kind of, staying in the same line of business, but getting back to what I said earlier about loving customer insights and data and understanding how other companies successfully manage challenges and meet customer expectations. So, it's right up my alley. I'm very excited about that.

[28:32]Maya: So, can you expand a little bit more on what you're going to be doing? Because it's a global role and you've been in a global role for quite some time. And, you know, as we mentioned earlier, it's very different, depending on the demographics in the country and, you know, all of these different things. So, tell me more.

[28:48]Mindy: Yeah. So, I will have a team of insights managers that are focused in different regions. You know, I guess I should say the mobility business. We have over 47,000 retail sites, fuel stations, globally.

[29:03]Maya: So, mobility business means gas stations. Sorry, I'm done.

[29:07]Mindy: Correct. Oh, no, no, no. Well, you know what I like to say when people ask what I do? I always tell them, I give people gas.

[29:14]Maya: And you're a steamroller, right?

[29:16]Mindy: Yeah, I'm a steamroller who gives people gas.

[29:20]Maya: That’s the best quote that I've ever heard.

[29:24]Mindy: But yeah, so, it's in over 80 countries, too. So, you're absolutely right, things are different depending on, you know, which country it is and our business model there. We have different business models as well. But so, I will be managing a team of people and we will be using global data from different sources, as well as data that might be more localized, right? There's data that you can get in each market that can help that market make business decisions. And that's everything from marketers will recognize some of these, but, you know, brand share preference, overall customer satisfaction.

[30:04]Maya: That one, I know.

[30:05]Mindy: Yes, yes, yes. NPS is another big one that a lot of people focus on. I have opinions on that. Happy to share them over a drink some time.

[30:12]Maya: Wait, wait. What is NPS? What is that?

[30:15]Mindy: Net promoter score. A lot of retailers still do that. But personally, I feel, and this is controversial, I can already hear some people reaching out to me if they hear me say this. I've always felt that that one is not as crucial as, like, an overall satisfaction score from customers. And there are different ways to approach it as well, whether it's, you know, a B2C, a business to consumer, or a B2B, right? And so, you know, what I'll be doing includes B2C and B2B for our lubricants and our mobility groups. So, lots of data, lots of insights.

[30:54]Maya: How is Shell competing with things like Buc-ee's?

[30:58]Mindy: Oh, my gosh. Okay, oof, I have to tell you, I love nothing more than when people come to Houston, my colleagues, who have never been to a Buc-ee's or heard of it.

[31:10]Maya: There's a whole Instagram site of this Italian guy who has this American wife, and she brings him to Buc-ee's.

[31:13]Mindy: Yes, yes. I've shared that and I've shared a few other videos. Because here's the thing, you know, and I've said this for a long time. At one point, when I was in London back in 2019, in that role, I was working on a project we called Site of the Future, where it was, really, what do our future retail sites using digital technology and AI and modernizing the way it's laid out, the signage and all this other stuff. And I remember we were building our first one in Thailand at the time, and I was there, and we were talking about customer experience and the way the site was laid out. And they thought it was a big site. And admittedly, it was a big site, especially for us.

[31:55]Maya: For Thailand.

[31:55]Mindy: For Thailand. And so, I showed them a Buc-ee's video and they were… and the other thing I drove home with them was, you know what? And Buc-ee's proves a couple of things that, sometimes, the larger companies struggle with is some of the basics, like keeping the toilets clean and keeping, again, the door handles clean and making sure that, you know, people say hello to customers and, you know, are friendly in their interactions and knowledgeable. And you go to a Buc-ee's and they just knock it all out of the park.

[32:28]Maya: Well, it's also retail. I mean, it's gas is, sort of, on the side. Like, you know, like…

[32:33]Mindy: It’s an experience. 

[32:35]Maya: Yes. And I will admit, I do not think that we have ever stopped at Buc-ee's to get gas. We stop at Buc-ee's to get stuff.

[32:45]Mindy: Well, I only get my gas at Shell, as well as my C-store items. So, yes, I just go there to observe.

[32:53]Maya: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And maybe, some, you know, roasted nuts on the side and some beef jerky, you know, you never know.

[32:59]Mindy: Beaver nuggets, yeah.

[33:00]Maya: And beaver nuggets.

[33:01]Mindy: But you gotta give them credit. They have created a brand that was really focused on the experience. They really have.

[33:11]Maya: Yes. And I've noticed that transition with Exxons and Texacos. I’m sorry I’m saying these words. And Valeros and Shell.

[33:18]Mindy: You were about to say Shell next, right?

[33:20]Maya: Shell. I mean, I was saving the best for last, Shell. But they have been transforming. And that, I've noticed, as a customer, that, you know, it's different and you can't stay in one place. You really do have to adapt. And every business, in order to survive, it's change or die, right? Is that the phrase?

[33:40]Mindy: Absolutely. And you know what? For us, it's evolving beyond traditional gas, right? You know, for us, and I've been very excited to be involved in global roles in markets where we have admittedly done this a little more, but we're doing a lot of great things here in the U.S. and Canada as well around sustainability and EV and technology as well. You know, it's an exciting time, but it's also a time where we're learning good and bad things.

I mean, you know, I just had a discussion recently because we have Shell Recharge, which is, you know, EV charging. And we have some amazing sites globally with EV. You know, we have sites here that have EV charging as well, and we're growing those. Global uniforms, which my team currently also manages. We had a big discussion around having specific uniforms for those EV sites, the sites that don't even have traditional fuel, like, right now, currently, in Europe, for example. And the decision that was made by the group, you know, and agreed to was white and I, kind of, laughed. I love white. I love clean. But I made the comment, you know, right now, we definitely need to keep it just at EV sites, because can you imagine a traditional fuel station and they're wearing white? That thing’s going to be so dirty by the end of the day.

[35:05]Maya: Well, yes.

[35:07]Mindy: You know, those are the kinds of things we think about. And things that, you know, as we're designing future sites, going back to that entire customer experience, and what are the things, and you're absolutely right, the evolving needs, because they are changing so quickly.

[35:21]Maya: Rapidly, yeah. So, let me ask you a bit more about Rice, because you recently won a Distinguished Alumni Volunteer Award. Congratulations!

[35:31]Mindy: Thank you.

[35:32]Maya: And you were at Rice, you know. You graduated in 2013. So, it's been a minute. I just wanted for you to share why you feel it's so important to continue to stay connected to Rice.

[35:45]Mindy: Rice was such an important part of my life. And as I mentioned earlier, I still take a lot of the learnings and use them daily in my work. And one of the things that I really appreciated about Rice was, going back to network, going back to hearing others’ perspectives and how they handle, and when I was there, I loved hearing from people who had already graduated. I still remember the first semester, that was the toughest for most of us. 

[36:18]Maya: Yes.

[36:19]Mindy: There were some times where I was just, you know.

[36:24]Maya: “I’m out. I can’t do this.”

[36:24]Mindy: Yeah, “am I going to do this?” And I remember, there was a Partio and a bunch of alums were there. And I was talking to one of them, and I was almost in tears. And I still remember why. I think I had the accounting midterm coming up and I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” And I was just, and I was like, “I don't… you know, maybe this is it.” You know, for me, I just… and quite honestly, I had an amazing class of just very impressive people. And I, kind of, I did not sense that they were struggling as much as I was.

[36:59]Maya: Everybody feels that way.

[37:00]Mindy: Yes, and then you find out everybody does. And so, I still remember, I was, kind of, feeling alone. I'm sitting there. And I'm drinking my beer at the partio, but I'm, kind of, sitting there. And you could… I'm trying not to just cry, because I was really having a, “Do I stick with this,” you know. And one of the alumni came over and just started chatting with me. And they said, “Don’t worry about it. You know what? Everybody, yada, yada.” “But what if I fail?” And, you know, it was all the emotion and the fear. It was fear, is what it was.

[37:31]Maya: What if you fail? Well, what if you don't? That's my hole. It's like, what if you don't?

[37:36]Mindy: Right. Well, and that goes back for me, the evolution as well, as I've always had that kind of fear of failure. I've got to do everything 200%. And as I get older and crankier, I'm getting a little bit more like Kathy Bates in Fried Green Tomatoes, where I just don't care.

[37:54]Maya: Try Kathy Bates in Misery!

[38:01]Mindy: I’m not that bad. I’m not that bad, yet. But I tell you, you know, the older I get, the less I have that fear. Quite honestly, it's also, that's what comes from overcoming fears again and again, right? And MBA school is one of those. And so, I say that to say one of the things I did throughout was connect with alumni whenever I had the opportunity at different events. And even now, I love to hear people's stories and I like to hear what people do and I like to hear… You know, quite honestly, they'll ask me questions sometimes that then gets me thinking about things. And it's great to have that interaction. And, you know, people talk about network all the time in the sense of using your network if you're looking for a job or things like that. For me, it's really, it's the learning. And for me, too, being a team leader, I've never had an official mentor in my company. I had some unofficial ones that I would ask because I, you know, looked up to them. And for me, now, not that I'm an expert on anything, but I can definitely tell them what not to do.

[39:04]Maya: Those are usually the most important pieces. I learned, if they listen, I mean, it's like, you know, with my children, it's like, “Listen, I did this.” And it's, like, you know, your kids, you're out the window, you're going to do whatever you want to do anyway. But as an adult, it's like, “Wait a minute, Mindy told me. I'm going to put that in my pocket and I’m going to remember this.”

[39:23]Mindy: Yeah, and like anything, it's not telling them what to do. It's hearing them asking probing questions and, really, maybe not giving them the solution but helping them go down that path of finding a solution for themselves and offering examples of things that, like I said, and it's true, “You know, one thing I did that I would not recommend,” things like that, and if there's something that I can do to help, great, you know.

And the other thing I would say, going back to Rice, is I had two overseas assignments in London in my career. And both times, I leveraged my Rice network and my UT as well. Both have alumni groups there. I still run the London Rice Owls social media page right now because nobody's taken it over. But that's how I met some friends who are still to this day great friends, because I would organize happy hours or if there was something going on. A lot of times, I'd try to merge with the University of Texas alumni. If they had an event going on, I'd make sure that the, you know, “Hey, we're all Texas alumni. Let's get together.” So, it was a great way to make friends in a place where, you know, I had just moved to. And I still learn a lot from those groups, as well.

[40:39]Maya: Well, and I will tell you that both UT and Rice are very, very lucky to have you as an alum, because you do so much for both organizations, both institutions. 

[40:49]Mindy: It's nice to have some interactions and, you know, especially when you're living overseas and you get the opportunity to hang out with fellow Americans and they even did some crawfish boils and things that it was, kind of, a little bit of home in the middle of central London. So, yeah.

[41:06]Maya: Well, let me ask you, final thoughts. Give me three lessons, because you said three lessons to live by and what you would like folks to know on Owl Have You Know.

[41:19]Mindy: You know what? I would say number one is, whether it's your life or your career, it's not a straight line. And you can plan it out. I just was saying this to my sister-in-law. You can be the best planner. You can have every little detail planned out. Life is always going to throw you curveballs. And how you react to those curveballs, have the courage, overcome the fear, because some of those curveballs end up being amazing opportunities even though they might not have been in your original plans. That's definitely one.

I guess number two would be always be curious. One of the things that I think I have benefited from is I'm not afraid to ask a lot of questions. Sometimes, that can annoy people, or sometimes I do worry that, especially, if it's someone senior, they might see it as a, you know, just why is she asking so many questions? But you know what, that's how you… again, that's how you learn. Be curious, though, and learn new things. Don't get comfortable. Especially right now, just in the marketing area, you know, the amount of technology and change and AI and the hot topics. And no, you don't have to necessarily be the expert on it, but especially, if you want to move up and you want to manage teams of the experts in those different areas, you need to know enough to be dangerous and to make sure that you're providing that direction, right?

[42:45]Maya: I like that. You're not the steamroller. You're just dangerous.

[42:48]Mindy: Yeah. And, you know, I guess that would be the third thing, too. And I've already said it. You don't have to be an expert on everything. And you don't... 

[42:59]Maya: You can’t be.

[43:00]Mindy: And you can't, you're absolutely right. And going back to, I used to want to do every single thing 200%. I had to do everything. And, you know, that's how I suddenly got sucked into the workaholic mode. And that's also how I got sucked into the allowing myself to stress out about things that, looking back, I shouldn't have stressed out about because you don't. And especially, as a team leader, you know, nobody's the expert at every single thing. And you'll frustrate yourself. And you will kill yourself trying to be an expert at everything.

[43:34]Maya: I think that's something that they taught us in business school.

[43:36]Mindy: Absolutely. And obviously, I'm still working on that.

[43:39]Maya: Well, we all are. We're all a work-in-progress, right? We're all works-in-progress. And you know, I think that what's really wonderful, as you said, you know, you get to meet these people, you get to hear their stories, you get to connect with them. And that's one of the joys of being able to talk to someone like you, and to share your story with the rest of our Rice community.

So, I'm just so grateful that I got to spend some time with you. And I'm really excited about what the future has in store for you. And I'm really thrilled that you're part of our show. So, thank you for being here.

[44:10]Mindy: Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.

[44:15]Maya: Thanks for listening. This has been Owl Have You Know, a production of Rice Business. You can find more information about our guests, hosts, and announcements on our website, business.rice.edu. Please subscribe and leave a rating wherever you find your favorite podcasts. We'd love to hear what you think. The hosts of Owl Have You Know are myself, Maya Pomroy, and Scott Gale.