The Erin Brockovich of Food feat. Robyn O'Brien '98

[00:00] Intro: Welcome to Owl Have You Know, a podcast from Rice Business. This episode is part of our Pivot Series, where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.

[00:36] Christine: Hello, everyone. Today on Owl Have You Know, we are joined by Robyn O'Brien, Rice Business class of '98. Thank you, Robyn, for joining us today.

[00:45] Robyn: Oh, I'm so excited to be with you.

[00:47] Christine: Well, I want to get started with going back and finding out how you even became interested on the topic of food.

[00:55] Robyn: Well, gosh, I wasn't really at all. I wasn't a foodie. I joke that I was the last person that knew anything about any of this. I had regularly consumed diet sodas, didn't give any thought to any of it until my youngest child had an allergic reaction one morning over breakfast. And so, everything that I had just assumed held to be true. I started to dig into research. I really, really leveraged the background and the education that I had at Rice to really start to understand and unpack what exactly was happening to the health of our children and what exactly was going into the products that we were grabbing off of grocery store shelves.

[01:35] Christine: And so, this sort of came about after your time at Rice Business?

[01:39] Robyn: Yes. I think we're all interested in food as eaters in a selfish way. But the wider work of realizing that the choices and the decisions that we make financially, the impact the decisions a food company can make when it comes to sourcing and ingredients and everything else have a massive impact. And those externalized costs were being born out onto the health of our families.

And prior to Rice, I had been in advertising and marketing, I had done a Fulbright. I'm just forever a student. I love, love, love to learn. However, yes, it was coming out of Rice when I got a job in the investment world on a team that managed 20 billion in assets, and I was the only woman on the team. So, the guys had me cover the food industry. And so, it was really learning the mechanics and really operationalizing the way that these companies worked, the way that this industry worked that I really developed this incredible understanding of the industry. But again, there was nothing emotional about it. It was very black and white. It was very much spreadsheets. And it wasn't until I became a mother that I was able to take that skillset that I had learned at Rice, the skillset that I had deployed in the investment industry, and then married it with the information that I was learning on the ground about what was actually happening to the health of our children.

[02:52] Christine: And in this time, we'll get more into where you've gone with this, but how have you used what you learned at Rice Business to take this forward and explore this world of food?

[03:04] Robyn: Oh, my gosh, what have I not taken with me from Rice? I could not do what I do without having attended Rice Jones School. There is no way I could do what I do without having gone to Rice. And it's everything, from the economics class and understanding just basic fundamentals of economics, to ethics coursework that I took with Doug Schuler, to marketing coursework, to operational behavior, every single one of those classes. And I will have to stop and pause and thank Al Napier because he was my entrepreneurship professor. And we have just lost a very, very good man who I have stayed in touch with over the years because my work sort of initiated when my youngest child had this allergic reaction.

Well, he would share personally how we had a grandson with peanut allergy. And so, I leaned into absolutely everything that I learned at Rice, from managing the Wright Fund to all of the parties that we would throw, even the Partios, and when we host investors and we bring them out what we have at rePlant or Trails Nails. It's the same version of that, just Colorado style.

So, there was so much that I learned in that program. And it fundamentally changed the way that I viewed the world. It's why I'm so loyal and so devoted and so proud to be on the faculty as an adjunct faculty member because the school gave me so much.

[04:25] Christine: Absolutely, totally agree. I know you've been labeled the Erin Brockovich of food. How did that title even come about? And do you like that title?

[04:34] Robyn: Gosh, it's funny. I think as somebody who nobody knew, Robyn O'Brien meant nothing to anybody when I stepped into this. And so, when somebody said you're like the Erin Brockovich of food, it gave people an immediate understanding of, okay, this is somebody who's like dug into it, she's going to make some noise, she's going to be a little bit of a rebel about it. All true. All true. And then I was so fortunate that Erin was so supportive of my work in the very beginning when nobody knew my name. And a lot of people, candidly, were looking at me like, "You sure about this? You sure it's really this bad?" Because nobody really wanted to have to take responsibility if it really is this bad. And Erin did. And that's what Erin does. She was almost like a big sister, just in the early years of the work. I think what's really interesting now is, as we continue to create solutions and drive solutions, the invitation is, be the best version of yourself that you could be. And I am so grateful for her. And I am so grateful for her ongoing work.

My work, coming back into the finance world, is going to be different. I came with a different set of skill sets and a different expertise. I think when you pioneer something, it's a very, very lonely journey. And there are not a lot of people that understand how isolating it can be. And I do think Erin is one of those people in my world who does understand that isolation and that persecution that's just part of pioneering and punching through something to really start to create change.

[06:02] Christine: I can definitely see parallels and how people can relate and understand what it is you've done and you're trying to do whenever they hear her name as well.

[06:11] Robyn: Yes. I was texting with her the other day. So, she showed us what is possible, and she showed us fearlessly what you can do with no excuses and no exceptions. And that model is something that needs to be emulated over and over and over again. And I think it's so important, not just for young girls to see, but for young boys to see, too. My kids, they're not little anymore. My oldest is graduating college. And I have two boys and two girls. And really, for them to see what's possible, I think that is one of the most important messages for young people today is, yes, we have inherited an absolute truckload of a mess. It is just catastrophic when you start to look at some of these systems and the crises that we're confronting, whether it's agricultural, environment, water, these fires, these floods, what's happening in South Africa right now. It's catastrophic. But at the same time, the scope of opportunities in front of us to be part of that solution, to create a solution, to innovate, to drive change is also enormous. So, that's where I tend to put my energy.

[07:16] Christine: When you're talking about a topic like food that reaches, it touches everyone, impacts everyone, where do you even start to make a difference? And was there one particular project or pivotal moment for you that you said yes and that put you on the trajectory?

[07:33] Robyn: Yes, I would say the opportunity to give TEDx Talk in Austin was really the game-changing moment, which interestingly came after my book was published. Random House published my book in 2009. And there was a very, very interesting coordinated campaign to try to keep it small. We had scheduled a bunch of media in New York, from The Today Show, to Good Morning America, to The View, just all kinds of interest in what we were doing. And in the 11th hour, everybody pulled out. So, clearly, something had happened right at that 11th hour. So, it fell on my shoulders, and it was like, "How am I going to do this?" I'm not going to have these levers of big media platforms that we had consistently heard people were really interested in what we were doing because, when you talk about food allergies or autism or cancer or diabetes, you go around the table and it touches everybody.

So, people were really thrilled that there was someone that was going to be really vocal on this. And then, for whatever reason, all those platforms got yanked away literally right before we launched the book. So, then when I was invited to do the TEDx Talk in 2011, and that came through—I grew up in Houston—so old friends in Houston that knew the organizers who were willing to stake their name and reputation on who I was as a whistleblower. What's fascinating, and it was an incredible lesson for me, for my team, for the kids, is, when something goes viral, you have no control at all of that thing going viral. And so, when that TEDx posted online, we just started to watch it tick. And it's pretty terrifying when you see that start to happen.

And I knew I was challenging a really big industry. And it was a CEO inside of Nestle. He was a head of Nestlé's Frozen Food Division. And within a couple of days of that thing being posted online, I had this email from this man. And he said, "You can say things I can't say. I need you to come and sit down with my team. I know we're going in the wrong direction." And from that moment on, I knew we were going to be okay. He is still a very dear friend. I just recently connected with him again a couple of months ago. But it was really from that moment on that I knew we were going to be okay.

[09:34] Christine: You've talked a little bit about listening to your intuition. But then you've also, obviously being a Rice business student, you've got analytics, too. How do you marry the two in your work and listen to that, but yet, at the same time, look at data and be able to analyze it?

[09:50] Robyn: That's a really, really great question and so important. And I'm so glad you picked up on the intuition. It's something that I think is such an important skill that is not recognized enough for the value that it brings.

Can it be everything? No, you need to do the analysis, too. So, I try as much as possible to be unbiased in my own approach. I try as much as possible to play the devil's advocate on whatever assumption I take, because I've had to stand on that frontline when I have had people try to literally assassinate me for the message that I was bringing forward. In order to be able to do that, you have to have done your homework. You can't just say, "Hey, I have a gut feeling about this. Hope it works out." You have to have the data, too. And so, the opportunity is to really marry that gut feeling, that intuition, with the analysis. And I think the analysis by itself is equally as weak as the intuition by itself. There's a lot to be said for both.

And as we move towards creating solutions for a lot of these environmental crises and problems that we're seeing, the skillsets of things, the skills of intuition and creativity and tenacity, they're not things you necessarily put on your resume, but those are definitely the skills that we need on our teams with our employees as we move forward and we move towards creating these solutions, because the enormity of the task in front of us is pretty huge. You can't just analyze your way into it. There has to be a lot of innovation. There has to be a lot of creativity. And a lot of that spark can come from things like intuition.

[11:24] Christine: Is it difficult to, maybe, watch the pace of change? Obviously, critics of any industry want it to happen quickly. That's not always reality, as change can be slow. How do you process that? And maybe, what's your advice, even, to those who are waiting to see changes in the way food is processed or harvested or presented or however you want to package it?

[11:48] Robyn: That's a great question, too. So, I would say, I think about what's the story I want to tell at the end of my life. What does that story look like? And every day, am I working towards that story? And you're right, some days, it takes huge leaps, and you've got these amazing inbound emails and these amazing conversations or meetings. And then you can go for a week where it just feels like it's stalling, and that there's fear in different groups or organizations you may be working with. And so, again, to really understand the psychological component here is really important. Whether I'm working with the CEO of a multinational food company, if I can feel fear start to set in to that person, I know I've got to do a psychological wrap-around. And you know what? We see when we create anything that's new or beautiful like a building, is there's a supportive scaffolding that goes around it as that new thing is created. And the same thing is required for us as leaders.

And so, a lot of the work is, what does this person need wrapped around him or her right now to grow into the leader that we need inside of that organization? And so, it's not just technical stuff, it's not just analytical stuff. There is a lot in the soft skill side of things, which, again, Rice did an amazing job with the organizational behavior classes and really helping understand that people, they don't exist in a vacuum. My team alone, these last six months, has been hammered with all kinds of personal stuff, hitting different team members. And it's just crazy that it's hit everybody at the same time, but it has. And so, how do we help our teammates navigate the personal and the professional?

And I really think the more that you can understand the psychological impact of things like climate change, the psychological impact of things like Russia and Ukraine, the psychological impact of somebody's mother being diagnosed with cancer, the more resilient you're going to be and the better you're going to be able to stay in the game for the long term. So, I really do take this long-term approach. And if I'm feeling like burnt out, which, believe me, I've had those stretches where I'm just as flat as can be, then I know, okay, it's time to pull back a little bit. And what do I need to do to refuel? Do I need to spend less time in meetings? Do I need to spend less time on Zoom? Do I need to take calls walking around the block? What does it look like? And I think one of the silver linings of COVID is that it scrambled our workday and it allowed us to reinvent things.

And I think, particularly for women, a lot of us, yes, it's a little bit chaotic when you've got kids at home or a lot chaotic, but it's given us a flexibility that we didn't have before. And consistently, we're doing the analysis as a team. As we come out of this pandemic, what do we want to go back to? And nobody wants to go back to five days in the office. Nobody wants to do that. So, again, grace and flexibility. The art of listening is so important. I think that is a lost art, is to really try to listen and hear what people need, hear where they're afraid, hear where they may feel insecure, hear where they may have a hesitation, and really understanding that beyond the technical what is required for somebody to absolutely excel in the opportunity at hand.

[15:00] Christine: And when you look at some of the things you were just discussing and the different generations, do you find the perception is maybe different, or is it all the same?

[15:11] Robyn: That's a great question. No, the generational difference is very real. We're experiencing that on our team. And for a younger generation that is completely defined by work output, it's going to feel really different when you have three co-founders who are in their 50s, like rePlant has. And so, it's really, how do we honor both? And how do we take the wisdom of the older members of the team and marry it with this passion and this incredible tenacity that's present with people that are first stepping into their careers? And it's a dynamic, again, that requires a lot of compassion. And it requires a lot of listening so that people feel seen and heard in their roles and that they understand that everybody is contributing towards this higher goal.

[15:57] Christine: And when you were younger and coming up, who were your mentors? And did you have many female mentors?

[16:04] Robyn: No, I do a lot of mentoring of younger women because I did not have a female mentor. I now have women that I work with who are like sisters. There's a real sisterhood and the fortitude that's required of women stepping into some of these industries and some of these businesses. I think a lot of reasons that women have imposter syndrome is because these systems were not created for us. They were not designed for our leadership. They were not designed for our roles as mothers.

And so, of course, there's imposter syndrome, because guess what? You weren't actually the person they had in mind when they were creating the C-suite executives and the board of directors. Thankfully, companies like Goldman Sachs are starting to say, "Any company we take public has got to have at least one woman or person of color on the board." That's a pretty low bar, but at least they've actually created a bar.

And so, again, how can we accelerate this change? I don't think we're going to get where we want to be in the food industry, the financial industry, any of these industries, until we have that diversity of representation. We are so much more resilient, we are so much more robust when we have that diversity of governance. It's so critical. To me, it's just fundamentally critical to the success of an organization that that diversity is represented. And because I didn't have that mentoring, I'm so generous and being able to offer that back, because there are so many little things that you can learn and understand and do.

And then, I also think for women, our Ag secretary here in the state of Colorado, we had lunch a couple of weeks ago. And she was asking questions about the timing of when she wants to have her kids. And that's a question one mother to another mother. And so, to be able to offer that sounding board, even, or that support or just to be able to reflect a little bit, it's enormous as we navigate this together.

[17:56] Christine: Well, let's dive into rePlant Capital and talk a little bit about why you formed it, what it's doing.

[18:04] Robyn: We're so excited about what we're doing. And I'm so proud of this team. We really saw a need, a space that was just empty. And what was happening was the food industry consumers were waking up and trying to find food that was free from all this artificial stuff. Unfortunately, in the U.S., we don't grow enough of that. And 85% of consumers are buying organic. 75% of grocery store categories carry organic. But only 1% of the U.S. farmland is organic. I don't take any kind of Ph.D. to recognize that math doesn't work. So, what's happening? So, we're importing all this stuff. There's no real way to verify if it actually is organic. The environmental impact of those imports is huge. We're not growing what Americans want to eat. So, it leaves the farmers vulnerable. We're not using and stewarding the land in a way that's responsible for food security in the U.S. So, it's like you look at that and it's like, wow, you can say this is a huge mess or you can say this is a huge opportunity.

So, as we sat down with the food industry, we were like, "Look, do you know your consumer now is changing towards these choices of free from and organic? Your supply chain isn't there, what are you doing?" The frustration the industry had with the lending institutions and the conventional lending institutions, they couldn't give them the capital or the timeline needed to transition farmland, because it takes three to five years to transition something from that really intensive chemical input model to regenerative and organic agriculture. Most banks aren't going to be like, "Hey, we'll give you that three to five-year window."

So, we thought, can we create a financial services firm, raise philanthropic capital from high net worth individuals, foundations, other organizations to really bridge that need and provide a very low cost of capital to the farmer so that he or she can begin to transition into regenerative and organic agriculture? And then really lean into these relationships that I have with these multinational food companies and really pull them forward so that they would commit and say, "You know what? If you offer that loan at a low cost of capital, we're going to be here at year three to buy that stuff as it comes off the farm."

So, that's the model that we created. And it helps the farmer mitigate his or her risk in that transition because he's got a low cost of capital. We bring in a technical assistance provider, which is somebody who goes out to Kansas or Arkansas or wherever the farm is, works with that farmer to teach him or her how to get off the chemicals and steward the soil in a different way. And then, importantly, we bring in that third party, that guaranteed buyer, the big multinational food company, that's going to say, "Yes, I'll be there." So, the farmer, instead of it being this totally risky endeavor where he can't see what could happen at year three, upfront on that term sheet, we lock it all down.

[20:42] Christine: That's amazing. I'm from Indiana and grew up in the Heartland, so quite familiar with agriculture. And I can imagine what a hurdle that is, because in a lot of situations, you're dealing with third generation, fourth generation. They've always farmed certain crops. And making that pivot has to be really scary.

[21:00] Robyn: Yeah, and that's why, for us, it had to be a financial thing. We wanted to take that farmer in Indiana... and we actually have a podcast with a farmer in Indiana on Thursday night. We want to take that farmer in Indiana and make him successful, period. And then, that just sells itself. And if he's got a new Ford 150 in his driveway and the other guys are like, "What are you doing? Who are you working with," then he can tell the story and he becomes the ambassador. So, you have to make it an economic proposition, like, we're not out there trying to convince farmers of climate change. We're not out there trying to convince them that this is better than this.

Financially, this is the smartest decision they can make because, as they get off the chemicals, their debt levels go down. They are taking out more and more debt every year to finance the purchase of those chemicals. And farmers now carry $426 billion in debt. So, what's happening on those farms that, yes, are third and fourth and fifth generation, is the younger generation is like, "Sorry, dad, I won't do this. I don't want to be around the chemicals and I don't want to take on that debt," because they've seen what that debt has done to their dad.

And you got to look at the whole model. And again, it's like total cost stuff, it's systems thinking, it's all things Rice. You got to look at that whole model and say, if we can break the addiction to the chemicals and bring those debt levels down, is that younger generation more willing to step onto the farm? And 100%, that's what we're starting to see. So, those third and fourth and fifth-generation farmers that are standing on those fields that they've treated with chemicals for 20, 30, 40 years, they know those fields are damaged. They know that soil isn't healthy. They know that soil is not holding water.

And so, as you transition off of those chemicals and start to really steward the soil and take care of it in these regenerative ways, the ability for soil to hold water, the ability for soil to hold carbon, the ability for soil to hold nutrients comes back. And so, there's a sense of pride in that participation that we're also seeing. And it's amazing, because then once you got a farmer that has transitioned his fields... And I had a call last week with a chicken farmer in San Diego. The images of those fields are stunning. And it completely sells itself. When you take a field that has been totally mistreated with chemicals, transition it to regenerative agriculture, you go from something that just looks like the Dust Bowl to something that is just vibrant and green and healthy. And I think you can't put a number on that pride. And then for that to also be the economically viable, smarter financial decision, we just are behind the scenes supporting the farmer. And we allow that to sell itself.

[23:31] Christine: What do you say is, maybe, your biggest success? Is there something that you accomplish that you just say, "That was the moment I knew, wow, I had really changed the conversation?"

[23:42] Robyn: Gosh, that's a good question. I've had a lot of moments like that, thankfully, in the last 10 years. That call from the CEO of Nestle after that TED Talk was one of those moments. To know that we are providing capital to the farmer that's going to grow the first regenerative organic certified tomato ever in Campbell's Soup product line, and that Campbell's is going to roll out its first ever regenerative organic certified product because of a loan that we've deployed to a farmer, that's another one of those moments. Candidly, to have the team that we have, I adore our team. And part of my hustle is just to ensure that the team has what it needs.

I have moments where I was isolating for so long and I was sort of a solo entrepreneur for so long that the joy of working with a team and being able to support these incredible individuals on my team is something I don't take for granted ever. I'm grateful for that every day. I've been asked to serve in policy positions at the USDA. I've stayed very focused on the impact that we can make in the private markets. I wouldn't rule out policy. Longer term, I really enjoy policy, which is not something I ever expected to enjoy or look for. But really, I love the intersection of business and policy. And I think it's fascinating. And again, another opportunity to have more women in leadership would be tremendous.

There've been so many times where I've been standing on a farm in Nebraska or Iowa or somewhere, and I've just thought, I wish I could pack up every member of Congress and get them out here to see what we are seeing, because they're voting on things like the Farm Bill and I don't think they have a deep enough understanding of what they're actually voting on. So, there's a lot of education that's required in the process. And it really is a lifetime of work. So, knowing that, that it's not something we're going to fix in the next five years, this is truly a lifetime of work.

[25:32] Christine: And speaking of that lifetime of work, as you look ahead with rePlant Capital, do you have maybe a milestone that you would say, "This is really what I want to accomplish in my body of work over the next few decades?"

[25:43] Robyn: Yeah, that's a great question, too. I would say that, on our platform, the first fund is a soil fund to really deploy capital to farmers to transition their farmland. The second fund is going to be an AgTech fund because, clearly, there's so much emerging in that space. And it's fascinating. Everything from soil diagnostics to things like Fitbits for cows, the scope of AgTech is amazing. The third fund on the platform will probably be an infrastructure platform. Personally, I would love to see a fund that supports female farmers and ranchers. And really, that is very female-focused because it's a category and a group that's so discriminated against. Same with farmers of color. And really, I would hope that, over the next 20 years that my work has financially lifted the livelihoods of the female farmers.

[26:34] Christine: Great goals, and fascinating speaking with you. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you'd like to touch on today?

[26:42] Robyn: The only thing that I would add is that fear is part of the process. So, when it comes in and it tries to wrap you up in its giant black hug that fear does, it's like you got to just talk to it and be like, "Hey, here you are. Of course, you're here right now. I'm about to step into a huge change," and understand that it is a companion on this journey. So, when it shows up, you're actually stepping towards a big breakthrough moment because you're stepping out of your comfort zone. That's when fear shows up. And so, I've learned to recognize fear as sort of this companion that's on this journey with me. And when I do feel that gripping moment, just acknowledge it, name it, of course, you're right there, and move through it.

I think it would be misleading and dishonest to suggest that you can do any of this without also all the mental gymnastics that come with fear and change and courage and all these things. So, I would add that, probably, you've got to have people that, really, you can lean on and trust. And it doesn't need to be a big group. In the beginning of my work, it was a very, very small group of people. But really, those people are really important, which, again, is why I do the mentoring because I've had people step into my life in that capacity. And it just completely changed my life. And so, if I can serve in that capacity for others going forward, absolutely, it's my way to say thank you.

[28:03] Christine: Great advice and a great perspective. Robyn O'Brien, we thank you for joining us today on Owl Have You Know.

[28:09] Robyn: Thank you for having me.

[28:11] Outro: This episode is part of our Pivot Series, a podcast from Rice Business where guests share stories of transformation in their lives and careers.